Brailsford's 'banning' of Paul Kimmage

thomasmc

Did you watch the video, Dennis?[/quote]

No, but it sounds like some people are fairly disappointed and somewhat taken aback because they are finding out that these hero cyclist, on whose every word they find themselves hanging, don't really have all that much to say and when they do say something they sound like, dare I say it, ordinary people(gasp, swoon). How dare they be ordinary?[/quote]

There you go!

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/video/070 ... umbia.html

dennisn

LangerDan wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I was responding to "Abdoujaparov's" (and a few others)comment about a meeting not appearing to be up to some standard that these guys seem to have set for Pro Rider meetings. I'm thinking that they expected to see and hear great revelations and strategies
from these riders and coaches and were very disappointed when they found it to be quite mundane and even boring. Gee, sort of like REAL LIFE.

It wasn't the mundanity - it was the fact that the key daily briefing for this multi-million dollar operation seemed quite incompetent. Last year, Cavendish made a big deal of the professionalism of the HTC preparation of the sprints - how the run-in was video'd , analysed by Zabel etc. This would have been a key stage for Cav -yet the team from the management down gave the distinct impression of not being bothered. I've seen better conducted training spin briefings.

Even if most team briefings are not going to reveal the secret of eternal youth or the Third Secret of Fatima, you would make some sort of effort if you'd gone to the trouble of inviting a camera crew on-board.

I've been to more meetings dealing with multi million dollar projects than I care to think about. Most of them are mundane, somewhat boring, and even sleep inducing, but all in all the real purpose is to keep everyone informed of the page we are on, any changes in the offing, bring up points of interest that someone may have missed, and, last but not least, allow for questions. I've left more than a few of them thinking "what a waste of time" and been sitting in more than a few when someone said something that "woke me up" with a "wait a minute - you're doing what?". I don't see cycling team meetings being any different just because they are cycling meetings.

iainf72

Can you just confirm Dennis, you have seen the video, yes?

dennisn

iainf72 wrote:

Can you just confirm Dennis, you have seen the video, yes?

Yes, I can confirm a NO answer to "have I seen....."

calvjones

iainf72 wrote:

Can you just confirm Dennis, you have seen the video, yes?

Iain, there's no point. Whenever Dennis visits the forum to post, he turns his screen off.

dennisn

calvjones wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Can you just confirm Dennis, you have seen the video, yes?

Iain, there's no point. Whenever Dennis visits the forum to post, he turns his screen off.

OK, sorry I missed the posting of the meeting by "thomasmc".
The question still stands. What were you expecting?? Looks like pretty much a whole lot of meetings that I've been to. Well, not on a bus but.......
Sometimes meeting are bullsh*t sessions that don't really accomplish much other than bringing the team together. This is not a bad thing. It gets people talking to each other
and "bonding", so to speak. Info is dished out that, at times, everyone already knows, yet
there is always a "say that again" moment by someone and that makes it all worthwhile.
Details are what are looked at in most meetings, not the grand plan for the race or mankind. Everybody involved already knows that.

symo

As a project manager for multi-million pound projects worldwide I thought they were all pants to be honest. No clear stating of the objectives for the day, no breakdown of the strategy (protect Brad FFS what with a bullet proof vest, telekinetic powers to lift him over obstacles and crashes?).

dennisn

symo wrote:

As a project manager for multi-million pound projects worldwide I thought they were all pants to be honest. No clear stating of the objectives for the day, no breakdown of the strategy (protect Brad FFS what with a bullet proof vest, telekinetic powers to lift him over obstacles and crashes?).

I've been to more than a few meetings that are like you describe. But can you honestly say that ALL of them have been clear, concise, to the point, etc? Never been to a meeting
where it went like the bus meeting? I sure have. Just a quick meeting to see if anyone's
out of any loop they should be in? Maybe a meeting to keep the troops loose and in touch with each other? Not EVERY meeting can be earthshaking.

LangerDan

dennisn wrote:

I've been to more meetings dealing with multi million dollar projects than I care to think about. Most of them are mundane, somewhat boring, and even sleep inducing, but all in all the real purpose is to keep everyone informed of the page we are on, any changes in the offing, bring up points of interest that someone may have missed, and, last but not least, allow for questions. I've left more than a few of them thinking "what a waste of time" and been sitting in more than a few when someone said something that "woke me up" with a "wait a minute - you're doing what?". I don't see cycling team meetings being any different just because they are cycling meetings.

Dennis - if you took time to see the video , you'd see that they failed in every aspect of this. Thats the whole point.

dennisn wrote:

I've been to more than a few meetings that are like you describe. But can you honestly say that ALL of them have been clear, concise, to the point, etc? Never been to a meeting where it went like the bus meeting?

Yup, I have - but we weren't dumb enough to let cameras in.

dennisn

LangerDan wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I've been to more meetings dealing with multi million dollar projects than I care to think about. Most of them are mundane, somewhat boring, and even sleep inducing, but all in all the real purpose is to keep everyone informed of the page we are on, any changes in the offing, bring up points of interest that someone may have missed, and, last but not least, allow for questions. I've left more than a few of them thinking "what a waste of time" and been sitting in more than a few when someone said something that "woke me up" with a "wait a minute - you're doing what?". I don't see cycling team meetings being any different just because they are cycling meetings.

Dennis - if you took time to see the video , you'd see that they failed in every aspect of this. Thats the whole point.

dennisn wrote:

I've been to more than a few meetings that are like you describe. But can you honestly say that ALL of them have been clear, concise, to the point, etc? Never been to a meeting where it went like the bus meeting?

Yup, I have - but we weren't dumb enough to let cameras in.

Whatever. Sorry you guys didn't get what you were expecting. A meeting of grave faces, talking about bike racing from the cerebral aspect by all the participants, an expose on strategies for every mile and bump in the road. Instead you got a quick little meeting of guys right before a race. Happens all the time, these quick little meetings.

stagehopper

Cav talked today about them studying yesterday's finish on Google Earth and then when Zabel did his reconnaissance on the day found it was more uphill than expected. We didn't see any of that on Eurosport so makes me think it was more of a "for the cameras" thing.

LangerDan

dennisn wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I've been to more meetings dealing with multi million dollar projects than I care to think about. Most of them are mundane, somewhat boring, and even sleep inducing, but all in all the real purpose is to keep everyone informed of the page we are on, any changes in the offing, bring up points of interest that someone may have missed, and, last but not least, allow for questions. I've left more than a few of them thinking "what a waste of time" and been sitting in more than a few when someone said something that "woke me up" with a "wait a minute - you're doing what?". I don't see cycling team meetings being any different just because they are cycling meetings.

Dennis - if you took time to see the video , you'd see that they failed in every aspect of this. Thats the whole point.

dennisn wrote:

I've been to more than a few meetings that are like you describe. But can you honestly say that ALL of them have been clear, concise, to the point, etc? Never been to a meeting where it went like the bus meeting?

Yup, I have - but we weren't dumb enough to let cameras in.

Whatever. Sorry you guys didn't get what you were expecting. A meeting of grave faces, talking about bike racing from the cerebral aspect by all the participants, an expose on strategies for every mile and bump in the road. Instead you got a quick little meeting of guys right before a race. Happens all the time, these quick little meetings.

drewfromrisca

What if someone came into you guy's office/workplace with a camera and started filming? Maybe make you feel a bit awkward? I see both points of argument here but they are only human beings after all. Also quite possible the talks were 'staged' for the cameras maybe then the real one took place when they left just to keep the teams happy?

dennisn

LangerDan wrote:

dennisn wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I've been to more meetings dealing with multi million dollar projects than I care to think about. Most of them are mundane, somewhat boring, and even sleep inducing, but all in all the real purpose is to keep everyone informed of the page we are on, any changes in the offing, bring up points of interest that someone may have missed, and, last but not least, allow for questions. I've left more than a few of them thinking "what a waste of time" and been sitting in more than a few when someone said something that "woke me up" with a "wait a minute - you're doing what?". I don't see cycling team meetings being any different just because they are cycling meetings.

Dennis - if you took time to see the video , you'd see that they failed in every aspect of this. Thats the whole point.

dennisn wrote:

I've been to more than a few meetings that are like you describe. But can you honestly say that ALL of them have been clear, concise, to the point, etc? Never been to a meeting where it went like the bus meeting?

Yup, I have - but we weren't dumb enough to let cameras in.

Whatever. Sorry you guys didn't get what you were expecting. A meeting of grave faces, talking about bike racing from the cerebral aspect by all the participants, an expose on strategies for every mile and bump in the road. Instead you got a quick little meeting of guys right before a race. Happens all the time, these quick little meetings.

This is beginning to take on the POINT of the animated movie "The Point" by Harry Nilsson, in which it was pointed out that you didn't need a point to have a point.
Maybe my real point was "why can't anyone seem to accept the fact that it wasn't much of a meeting?" Just the standard team get together before the race to relax a bit and if someone has something to say fine, if not fine, let's go race. That's what it looked like to me. What's with all the under the microscope stuff? Looking for something that wasn't / isn't there. Add in the fact that everyone is in communication with everyone else during the race and maybe there wasn't much to say. Is it possible that there was another meeting, that none of you were invited to? Is it possible that that was the meeting in which all the race "secrets", or whatever your minds think is going on at these things, were discussed? Have none of you ever been on a "sports team" and lounged around the locker room before the game? Why are these guys supposed to be different?

ratsbeyfus

Dear God, when I get old, please don't let me get dennisn.

dennisn

ratsbeyfus wrote:

Dear God, when I get old, please don't let me get dennisn.

Thanks for answering my questions in the previous post so clearly.

Let's hear it. What did everyone expect, and obviously not get, from that team meeting?

DaveyL

Dennis. A few people expressed the view that it seemed a bit amateurish and unfocussed for what is a multi-million dollar team (and one of the best in pro cycling) in *the* big event of the year.

Now. you may find this hard to comprehend, since you don't seem to have any expectations of anything. You'll just have to accept that other people do.

And again, save the folksy self-deprecating back-down.