Daytime Running Lights?

London_Nick

Hi all,

Pretty new to the commuting scene, I started about 4 weeks ago, commuting from West London to Paddington everyday, an easy 6.5 mile ride. So far thoroughly enjoying it, much more enjoyable than catching the tube!
Anyway, already had my first close-call with a taxi. It led me to think, why don't cyclists use lights during the day, like motorbikes do?
I use one in the mornings (although daylight at 6.30am, still can be dark under trees), and there is a noticeable improvement in drivers ability to spot me, which doesn't happen on the commute home.
Any thoughts?

mapleflot

I've put lights on during daylight rain showers.

I think this will all become a bigger issue from next year whe all new cars (i.e. not just Swedish ones) get daytime running lights installed as standard. Then the question will be, will cyclists want to be the odd ones with no lights....some drivers will be looking for lights, not bikes.

jonny_trousers

I usually use my lights on a strobe setting during the day for the simple reason that when I am driving my car, those cyclists around me who have their lights on in the day are easier to spot.

Stevo_666

London_Nick wrote:

Anyway, already had my first close-call with a taxi. It led me to think, why don't cyclists use lights during the day, like motorbikes do?
I use one in the mornings (although daylight at 6.30am, still can be dark under trees), and there is a noticeable improvement in drivers ability to spot me, which doesn't happen on the commute home.
Any thoughts?

I use mine in the day, even in summer - just put the LED's (front and back) onto flash. Anything that might get you seen by someone who might not otherwise spot you has to be good. And never had any comments from other cyclists about leaving my lights on.

The Rookie

I think a strobing light would be far better at being seen, a solid light (front especially) is too small to be seen as a straight light in brighter sunshine I would think.

Simon

dancook

This is a good idea, I've got a exposure race light - I'll put it on pulse during the day.

jonnyboy77

I often put my knog frogs on flash during the daytime

- Jon

re-cycles

I've got a set of reelights and they flash constantly. Think they're great, proper fit and forget technology!

Headhuunter

I don't think bike lights are generaly bright enough to make a difference in daylight, unless you've got some mountain biking night light system. Bike lights are much smaller and less powerful than car and motorbike lights. I use mine in the day if it's unusually dingy and overcast, but I think if you're concerned about safety in daylight, hi viz would show up better and be of more assistance than lights.

London_Nick

I dunno, I've got a bright flashing light, it gets me noticed everywhere (particularly junctions where they are most appropriate). If you're in bright sunshine and go down a tree-lined road and you're in the shadows, you're pretty well hidden.
I seem to be the only person on my commute who does this though, hence my original question. I was beginning to feel like the odd one out!

shouldbeinbed

Headhuunter wrote:

I don't think bike lights are generaly bright enough to make a difference in daylight, unless you've got some mountain biking night light system. Bike lights are much smaller and less powerful than car and motorbike lights. I use mine in the day if it's unusually dingy and overcast, but I think if you're concerned about safety in daylight, hi viz would show up better and be of more assistance than lights.

I'm with london nick I dunno about this either.

walking driving and cycling I clearly spot a strobing front bike light out of a sea of car lights.

I think its the flashing and its generally a purer blue/white light.

mounted on a helmet is even better

Headhuunter

shouldbeinbed wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

I don't think bike lights are generaly bright enough to make a difference in daylight, unless you've got some mountain biking night light system. Bike lights are much smaller and less powerful than car and motorbike lights. I use mine in the day if it's unusually dingy and overcast, but I think if you're concerned about safety in daylight, hi viz would show up better and be of more assistance than lights.

I'm with london nick I dunno about this either.

walking driving and cycling I clearly spot a strobing front bike light out of a sea of car lights.

I think its the flashing and its generally a purer blue/white light.

mounted on a helmet is even better

Yes, they certainly stand out in dark or dusky conditions, but in broad daylight?

jonny_trousers

Headhuunter wrote:

shouldbeinbed wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

I don't think bike lights are generaly bright enough to make a difference in daylight, unless you've got some mountain biking night light system. Bike lights are much smaller and less powerful than car and motorbike lights. I use mine in the day if it's unusually dingy and overcast, but I think if you're concerned about safety in daylight, hi viz would show up better and be of more assistance than lights.

I'm with london nick I dunno about this either.

walking driving and cycling I clearly spot a strobing front bike light out of a sea of car lights.

I think its the flashing and its generally a purer blue/white light.

mounted on a helmet is even better

Yes, they certainly stand out in dark or dusky conditions, but in broad daylight?

Who knows? Perhaps not, but does it matter? Batteries don't cost that much.

Stevo_666

Even in broad daylight they can be noticed - in my car the other day I definitely noticed a strobing bike light in my rear view/wing mirrors as it got closer.

As for batteries - my rechargeables work a treat

jonnyboy77

Knog Frog Strobes are £10 each at Evans at the moment I think, and they are certainly visible in the daylight.

- Jon

sarajoy

I did see a bike today with a strobing light - yes it was obvious and made him stand out - yes it was broad daylight.

Sadly I wasn't in a suitable place to stop and turn my own lights on. His looked fairly powerful though - I'm not sure my bog-standard Cateyes would be so bright. Might check out Jon's Knog suggestion...

When I got knocked off in broad daylight when I was RIGHT IN FRONT of a woman's bonnet, somebody did ask me whether I had my lights on.. I said no, as it was 9am on a March morning and bright sunshine already - but maybe it was a good point. The lights don't point sideways, but maybe she'd then have seen my approach...

Norky

London_Nick wrote:

I dunno, I've got a bright flashing light, it gets me noticed everywhere (particularly junctions where they are most appropriate). If you're in bright sunshine and go down a tree-lined road and you're in the shadows, you're pretty well hidden.

+1

Bright sunny days don't necessarily mean you're more visible. The sun gives greater extremes in visibility. Consider the possibility of a motorist some distance behind you with the sun in their eyes (especially as the sun is lower in the mornings and evenings) as they come around a corner and approach a tree-tunnel. To them, in the time it takes for their eyes to adjust, the tunnel will be almost entirely dark. That is precisely why I run a fairly bright rear light in flashing mode. It might be wasted for 90% of the journey, but if it makes me significantly more visible for 10% of the journey, I'll use it . I'll probably get a front light too.

I seem to be the only person on my commute who does this though, hence my original question. I was beginning to feel like the odd one out!

Around here any kind of cyclist is the odd one out I saw 3 or perhaps 4 in ~20 miles this morning, and one of them I was riding with.

dhope

I leave a 1/2 watt red LED on the back of my bag flashing. Not sure if people leave more space but I figure they'll not leave less.

BentMikey

Personally, I'm ambivalent about DRL. I use them, but only to take the excuse away from any driver of not seeing me.

I defy you to not see an Exposure Maxx-D on strobe on the front, and a Dinotte 400L on the rear. This is the Dinotte on medium constant, check out the return from all the reflective signs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeVOp7_V6QE

jonnyboy77

These are the fellas:


http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kno ... query=knog

- Jon

desmosedici

I always do the commute with a flashing LED light front and rear. When returning home late I turn on the halogens.

As said above, it's to take the SMIDSY excuse away.

wyadvd

dont forget the blackburn mars and exposure redeye.. i personally think a maxxd front light on constant is more noticeable in the day that on strobe......

tiny_pens

I'd have thought you would do better to get a flourescent bib during the day.

Ask someone to stand 50 yards away with a flourescent vest and a bike torch thats on. Glance at them. Which was more obvious to you?

Plus a flourescent vest is cheaper and doesn't need batteries replacing (assuming you get the same results I did). :-)

essex-commuter

I read a thread about daytime lighting a few weeks ago and thought it was a good idea, nothing to lose etc.

Since then I have not put my lights on once, I always seem to remember when I arrive at work or I arrive at home. Wish you could buy bike lights with sensors in...Dragons Den moment, or has it been done?

Greggyr

I always have my lights on.

jonny_trousers and stevo666's thoughts are exactly the same as mine.

BentMikey

tiny_pens wrote:

I'd have thought you would do better to get a flourescent bib during the day.

Ask someone to stand 50 yards away with a flourescent vest and a bike torch thats on. Glance at them. Which was more obvious to you?

Plus a flourescent vest is cheaper and doesn't need batteries replacing (assuming you get the same results I did). :-)

I dunno what the bike torch has to do with it - we're talking daytime here, so the reflectives won't be returning light. The fluo is there, but is also of debateable benefit since it blends in with workmen.

There's no comparing hiviz and lights - lights are waaaaaay more effective. Good road positioning is way more effective still.

Bikerbaboon

desmosedici wrote:

I always do the commute with a flashing LED light front and rear. When returning home late I turn on the halogens.

As said above, it's to take the SMIDSY excuse away.

Nothing we ever do will get rid of the SMIDSY, to think that a small low powered flashing light will make a driver see you when they are not looking for you is a false hope.

Divers will only see what they are looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahg6qcgoay4

is a good example of this.

I always think that dirvers are looking for danger things that could cuase them damage like lorries and other cars.
Motor bikes and cycles are not a danger to the driver so they dont think about looking for them. Look at the goverment adverts to try to get drivers to think bike when they are driveing around, the road signs up near schools to warn of children or near old peoples homes for old people crossing the street.

By all means put a light on every little helps but i would not say that you could ever expect it to save you from a smidsy....... My last smidsy was due to them playing on the ipod while pulling out of a junction. :roll:

tiny_pens

BentMikey wrote:

tiny_pens wrote:

I'd have thought you would do better to get a flourescent bib during the day.

Ask someone to stand 50 yards away with a flourescent vest and a bike torch thats on. Glance at them. Which was more obvious to you?

Plus a flourescent vest is cheaper and doesn't need batteries replacing (assuming you get the same results I did). :-)

I dunno what the bike torch has to do with it - we're talking daytime here, so the reflectives won't be returning light. The fluo is there, but is also of debateable benefit since it blends in with workmen.

There's no comparing hiviz and lights - lights are waaaaaay more effective. Good road positioning is way more effective still.

I'm talking about bike torches because people are suggesting knogg lights. Maybe torch is the wrong term.

I might be confusing the terms flourescent and Hi Vis. I'm talking about the really bright coloured vests you can buy. We agree that the luminescent strips are not helpful in daylight. I believe that what drivers do is they look for recognisable objects. Motorcyclists often wear Hi Viz vests so if you can fit the same shape you might get a second look. I don't know about you but I notice big yellow blobs ahead of me more than I notice the small headlight when I see motorcycles in the distance during the day.

Might be the difference of living outside the city - besides, most workmen round here wear orange vests anyway so bright pink really helps you stand out!

I agree about the road positioning though.

daviesee

tiny_pens wrote:

BentMikey wrote:

tiny_pens wrote:

I'd have thought you would do better to get a flourescent bib during the day.

Ask someone to stand 50 yards away with a flourescent vest and a bike torch thats on. Glance at them. Which was more obvious to you?

Plus a flourescent vest is cheaper and doesn't need batteries replacing (assuming you get the same results I did). :-)

I dunno what the bike torch has to do with it - we're talking daytime here, so the reflectives won't be returning light. The fluo is there, but is also of debateable benefit since it blends in with workmen.

There's no comparing hiviz and lights - lights are waaaaaay more effective. Good road positioning is way more effective still.

I'm talking about bike torches because people are suggesting knogg lights. Maybe torch is the wrong term.

I might be confusing the terms flourescent and Hi Vis. I'm talking about the really bright coloured vests you can buy. We agree that the luminescent strips are not helpful in daylight. I believe that what drivers do is they look for recognisable objects. Motorcyclists often wear Hi Viz vests so if you can fit the same shape you might get a second look. I don't know about you but I notice big yellow blobs ahead of me more than I notice the small headlight when I see motorcycles in the distance during the day.

Might be the difference of living outside the city - besides, most workmen round here wear orange vests anyway so bright pink really helps you stand out!

I agree about the road positioning though.

Small question but as Hi-Vis seems to be flavour of the month -

What's the difference between a Hi-Vis (non-reflective) jacket and a garish cycling jersey?

BSRU

I recently started using my lights during the day and I have to say that SMIDSY incidents have reduced significantly. Even on the brightest day, there are still lots of places in shade.

SMIDSY's still happen but they tend to be drivers who would have pulled out in front of anyone as they did not bother to look or the really bad drivers who just do not care.

BentMikey

wyadvd wrote:

i personally think a maxxd front light on constant is more noticeable in the day that on strobe......

Anecdotally, the answer to that would be a categoric no. I'm often filtering assertively on the offside, and the flash really gets drivers' attention. A few times I've been told that they thought I was a copper.