Buying new or old on a budget (<£400)

jmmL

I'm new to road biking and looking to do a tour (approx. 700km) for charity with a friend.

On a fairly constrained budget. Currently looking at the Carrera Virtuoso, the Carrera TDF limited edition and the Giant Defy 4. Which would be the best value out of these? Which other good bikes at this price range have I missed?

Secondly, I have the opportunity to buy a Giant TCR Once. Bit confused about this - apparently there are "genuine" and replica editions. I assume this is replica - the bike apparently cost £900 new and I'm being offered £350. It looks like the 2001 model, although the guy I'm buying it off isn't sure. It's bright yellow and has "Compact Road ONCE" written on the top tube. Is this a better bet than any of the new bikes? What properties of the bike should I check to make sure it's been maintained properly?

night_porter

Buying a secondhand bike can allow you to get an excellent bargain or a be money pit. It really is no different to buying a used car. The older they are could indicate there has been a lot of use/wear and things may need replacing but it could have been a preloved bike that has been perfectly serviced or hardly used.

Basically it is a minefield unless you know a reasonable amount about bikes and are willing to repair it yourself (if needed).

Both of the Carrera bikes and the Giant have basically the same setup, Shimano 2300 groupset, an aluminium frame with steel forks. There is a variance in price but some of that could be down to discounts or perceived brand association (they make really expensive bikes so their cheap ones must be good).

Steel forks are perceived to be low rent but will be reliable and much smoother ride than an aluminium fork. The majority of touring bikes are made of steel because it has a nicer ride and these can be comfortably ridden for extremely long distances.

I have ridden bikes with steel forks and the same framed bike with carbon forks and cannot tell the difference but I am no expert. Maybe you need to be an expert to tell the difference, I am guessing you are not an expert so why pay more if you don't need to.

I have a Giant and I have a Carrera (not the ones you mention though) and I am very happy with both of them.

They are well made and sport the same components as each other, have similar geometries so buy the one that you think is the nicest colour or you feel happiest with.

I would give the TCR a miss though!

Simples!

andyrr

The TCR sounds like it could be what was a pretty high-spec bike, some of these ONCE giants were very light for their time and even now are not exactly heavy frames - aroudn 1kg or so.
What is the stuff on it like - is it marked 105, Ulegra, Dura-Ace ?, what spec are the wheels ?
If it looks good then costs would most likely be for the consumables - this can start to add up if they were all needing replaces, chain, rear cassette, front chainrings, brake pads, headset bearings bottom bracket, cables (inners and outers.
Can you ride the Giant ?
IS there signs of wear from the bearings - any looseness at all with the forks ? Any play at all in the bottom bracket ?, gears shift perfectly ? Signs of corrosion anywere - on cables indicates they probably need replaced. Can you do any of the basic maintenance yourself ?

I'd think a decent condition Giant like that would be nicer than a bottom of the range new bike but a poor one would not be good until money was spent on it.

jmmL

Thanks for the really helpful and practical advice. I haven't been able to view the ONCE in person yet, all I have is a fairly low-resolution picture to go buy (you can barely read "compact road" on the top tube). I might give the ONCE a miss - it's nine years old so I assume will need a work doing even if it's been well looked after.

Also just seen a Specialized Allez Elite offered for £400 in some classifieds. It's the 2008 model, and apparently has not been ridden much. I think this is my best bet so far. I'm coming from a MTB background, so I do have some basic ideas about health-checking a bike, but I'm definitely not an expert!

Is the consensus that the Giant Defy 4 is not particularly worth the extra money over the Virtuoso or the TDF?

Edit: What's the advice with regards to pannier racks on road bikes? The guy I'm doing the tour with has just bought a Virtuoso and fitted a rack: is there any danger of the spokes buckling? We're not going to be carrying much as we're sleeping in hostels, so just clothes and food, with water being stored in cages and camelbaks. Does the Allez Elite have eyelets for a rack, or would I need to buy a clip-on one?

How much drag does a cargo buggy add? I've found a company with offices in Italy and France that will hire one out for 7EUR / day, which seems pretty reasonable.

Niffleman

jimml,

I have the predecessor bike to the Virtuoso, called the Valour, and I am vey happy with it. One big advantage of a new bike is that you will be able to choose the correct size for you, which on a 700 km tour could be a significant plus. Many of the lower end bikes from the big names, such as Specialized and Giant, have exactly the same specification as the Carrera but cost more, so I suspect you are paying for the name to some extent.

Another advantage of the Carrera is you are starting from new, so your costs are predictable. With a second hand bike, as has already been said, they could end up quite a bit higher than you expect if things need to be replaced.

With respect to a pannier rack, I think you would have to be carrying a pretty heavy load to be in danger of straining the spokes on any lower end bike. Perhaps on a top of the range carbon lightweight, there would be a problem, but not on the bikes you are looking at. As for a trailer, it doesn't sound as if you need one, so why bother?

Obviously, these are my views, and others wiith more experience may be able to advise you more accurately. Most importantly, train hard and enjoy the tour!

andyrr

Allez will prob not have rack or mudguard eyelets.

night_porter

Most of us have given advice to help you make your own decision, I am going to break with tradition and give you some direct advice.

Get the Virtuoso and put a proper rack on it just like your friend has. You will not regret it, honestly. I do not know if the TDF has rack mounts but the Virtuoso definitely does.

A standard rack will carry up to 25kgs which is 1.25 times more than you are allowed personal luggage when boarding an aeroplane. The bike has fixing points for it and has been built to take that weight comfortably. There are plenty of blogs and websites that tell of riders who weigh over 150kg (23.5 stones) riding bikes with no wheel problems (even some with luggage as well).

As we all have said the Carrera is the same spec bike but for less wonga......result!

jmmL

night_porter (and everyone else) thanks for the direct advice. So I'm definitely getting a Carrera - just a choice now between the Virtuoso and the TDF. I can't see much of a difference specs wise - but the TDF paradoxically has a higher RRP (£450) but is cheaper (£300) compared to the Virtuoso. I'll ride them both tomorrow, but has anyone got any advice on what separates them?

Really can't wait now; just want to get training

night_porter

As with all retail products bikes are priced by what the selling company thinks we will pay.

I think the rules about sale items is that one of the company's stores was selling the product at the previously stated price so the TDF was on sale at £449.99 within the previous 3 months. It doesn't mean that was the price in all of their stores nor does it mean they actually sold any at that price.

I think in April this year the Virtuoso was selling for £299.99 but now it is showing as £349.99 reduced from £399.99 so RRP doesn't actually mean much. It is just a marketting ploy to make us think we are getting something for nothing.

Obviously during the Tour de France they are promoting their TDF bike!

As I said in a previous post they appear very similar, if you like the yellow one buy that (check for rack mounts 1st) if you like the blue one buy that.

It is worth asking the Bikehut manager if he will fit a rack to convince you to part with your cash, you never know unless you ask.

jmmL

Thought I'd update here. I went for the Virtuoso in the end, and I'm definitely not disappointed. The Halford's manager eventually relented and offered a 10% discount on all accessories, but I decided this wasn't worth it; I'll buy online instead.

First proper ride on it today - nice 70km loop. Bring on Italy.

night_porter

Great choice and well done!

Having fitted a rack to a Vanquish you might need to bend the arm around the brake caliper on the left hand side but it is no biggie and if you buy a rack like this http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/tortec-t ... 67006.html it should be even easier because of the soft(ish) aluminium brackets.

A good solid rack at a good price and the filled in panel offers protection from the rain as well do an online search for the rack and you will see Evans sell it for £25.00.