First day of SPDs...

wgwarburton

Gussio wrote:

WGWarburton wrote:

... Is there really any benefit to using clipless pedals over toeclips for commuting/utility riding?....

I have come off pretty hard when mountain biking and my feet also come out of the SPDs, which means that you fall free from the bike. Not sure that the same could be said for toeclips. I personally think that SPDs are safer.

..but that's applying an MTB experience to Commuting... typically one rarely tumbles when commuting, and I can assure you that you have to have toeclips done up much more tightly than I, at least, ever would in town before they'll hold your feet in a fall.

Cheers,
W.

WesternWay

I moved to SPDs with some trepidation about 6 months ago.

Not had a comedy fall yet, they have been very good. I would hartily recommend them.

The nearest I have come to a fall has been on the polished stone floors at work...

George

sarajoy

Aguila wrote:

You pull up pretty rarely in practice. The real benefit is having a hard interface between pedal and foot so that no energy is wasted squishing a bouncy trainer sole every time you apply force.

Meh, sometimes, when in a low gear going up a hill if I'm getting tired, I will start 'pulling up' a but more, as those muscles aren't quite as tired... yet...! Also when trying to pedal in a circular way - what I'm really thinking about is pushing forwards over the top, and pulling back along the bottom (not up and down).

The main benefit that I enjoy, is feeling connected to the bike, and not having to put in ANY effort in keeping my feet on the pedals. Going over rough ground in flats and normal trainers is terrifying for me now, when I borrow a bike...! I daresay that can be fixed with bitey pedals, but they like biting calves & shins as well as shoe soles, owwww...

Wrath Rob

In my experience, toe-clips are dangerous and inefficient. First off you if you tighten them up enough to ensure an efficient power transfer you can't get your foot out in an emergency. So you don't and you then have an inefficient solution to the problems above. Also its hard to get your foot into the cage (compared to clips) when pulling away, which can lead to pedal strike if you have to turn a corner before you're in the cage. I realised this when test riding bikes recently and nearly crashed one due to the stupid pedals.

Benefits? You don't need specific shoes and they are cheaper than having to buy clips + special shoes

Once you go clipless and are comfortable with it you'll never want to go to toe-clips or back to flats

Mark Elvin

Are we all not forgetting the real benefit of SPD type pedals.......

BEING ABLE TO PULL AWESOME BUNNYHOPS

wgwarburton

Wrath Rob wrote:

In my experience, toe-clips are dangerous and inefficient. First off you if you tighten them up enough to ensure an efficient power transfer you can't get your foot out in an emergency.

They don't need to be tight to get efficient power transfer- the clips are rigid pushing forward and down, which is where it matters. If you want a more secure attachment you just tighten the strap when you need it.

So you don't and you then have an inefficient solution to the problems above.

Sorry- which problems? You only listed efficient power transfer, and I'm not convinced that's an issue.

Also its hard to get your foot into the cage (compared to clips) when pulling away,

That's just down to practice and personal preference, though, isn't it?

...which can lead to pedal strike if you have to turn a corner before you're in the cage. I realised this when test riding bikes recently and nearly crashed one due to the stupid pedals.

Again- unfamiliarity- what you're saying is that you find clipless pedals a bit easier to use.

Benefits? You don't need specific shoes and they are cheaper than having to buy clips + special shoes

That's a benefit of toeclips, yes? Not of clipless, which do need special shoes, more expensive pedals etc.

Once you go clipless and are comfortable with it you'll never want to go to toe-clips or back to flats

But why? What's the big benefit? What is it I'm missing?

Cheers,
W.

jedster

Buns,

Is there really any benefit to using clipless pedals over toeclips for commuting/utility riding?

I really think so.

Flats are a non-starter for me - I feel very insecure on them at high cadence and I need to apply light downward pressure on the rising pedal to maintain contact. I find that inefficient. Also I really like to be able to pull up for short bursts of acceleration - away from lights, overtaking, clearing a dodgy situation, etc.

So what about toe straps instead of SPDs?

I used to use straps and found that to get the full benefits of power transfer and security then you need the straps tight. This makes them difficult to get out of at lights, in stop start traffic, etc. SPDs set with light tension are incredibly easy to get out of.

Also they are single-sided versus SPDs which are double sided. So SPDs are easier to get into. Sure you get the knack of flicking pedals around with your toe but it is still easier with SPDs.

I'd put it the other way around - what possible advantage to straps have over double-sided SPDs?

The only one I can think of is that you can use them more easily with non cycle specific shoes. Just not an issue for me.

J

wgwarburton

jedster wrote:

...I'd put it the other way around - what possible advantage to straps have over double-sided SPDs?
The only one I can think of is that you can use them more easily with non cycle specific shoes. Just not an issue for me....

I guess the cost is a big deal- three sets of pedals, probably have to buy new, plus special shoes. That's my maintenance budget gone for the next two years!!

I think I would find it inconvenient to have to change shoes every time I want to use a bike. I like to be able to cycle in work-shoes or walk comfortably in cycle-shoes.

I have been using toeclips for a while and learnt the knack a long time ago. I can generally set off and "clip in" whilst rolling without thinking or delay, whether riding fixed or not- I occasionally have to remind myself that I can't push backwards on the pedal to flip if I'm riding a "broken" bike, but that's just normal fixed/free switching, I think. With toeclips I can sprint from lights without clipping in if I need to and do it later, the clipless pedals I tried the other day wouldn't allow that (I presume some would).

I can get out of clips very quickly if the bike slips (helpful in winter).

I can tighten them if I really want to- I don't generally feel the need.

(I do not like riding flats either, BTW- feels very insecure and inefficient).

So- the advantages are cost, convenience, safety and flexibility I guess.

What I don't see are the advantages to clipless- they seem to be universally popular so there must be some!!!

Cheers,
W.

rjsterry

WGWarburton wrote:

jedster wrote:

...I'd put it the other way around - what possible advantage to straps have over double-sided SPDs?
The only one I can think of is that you can use them more easily with non cycle specific shoes. Just not an issue for me....

I guess the cost is a big deal- three sets of pedals, probably have to buy new, plus special shoes. That's my maintenance budget gone for the next two years!!

I think I would find it inconvenient to have to change shoes every time I want to use a bike. I like to be able to cycle in work-shoes or walk comfortably in cycle-shoes.

I have been using toeclips for a while and learnt the knack a long time ago. I can generally set off and "clip in" whilst rolling without thinking or delay, whether riding fixed or not- I occasionally have to remind myself that I can't push backwards on the pedal to flip if I'm riding a "broken" bike, but that's just normal fixed/free switching, I think. With toeclips I can sprint from lights without clipping in if I need to and do it later, the clipless pedals I tried the other day wouldn't allow that (I presume some would).

I can get out of clips very quickly if the bike slips (helpful in winter).

I can tighten them if I really want to- I don't generally feel the need.

(I do not like riding flats either, BTW- feels very insecure and inefficient).

So- the advantages are cost, convenience, safety and flexibility I guess.

What I don't see are the advantages to clipless- they seem to be universally popular so there must be some!!!

Cheers,
W.

With MTB shoes and SPD pedals, I can push on the pedal without clipping in fairly easily for those TL starts, but I wouldn't want to try it on a smooth bottomed road shoe.

UndercoverElephant

Buns,

If you can actually pedal "in circles", which you do have to train yourself to do, then the advantage of clipless over clips is that you can get smooth power transfer over the entire pedal stroke. Clips are better than flats for this, but you're still only applying the power to a relatively small section of the circle.

*Waits for someone to tell him that it's impossible.*

jedster

I think I would find it inconvenient to have to change shoes every time I want to use a bike. I like to be able to cycle in work-shoes or walk comfortably in cycle-shoes.

Personally, I nearly always where MTB cycling shoes (good for walking in as the cleats are recessed) and I leave my work shoes at work. I do have SPDs with a polymer frame around them on one bike, these provide a reasonable platform for riding with normal shoes.

With toeclips I can sprint from lights without clipping in if I need to and do it later, the clipless pedals I tried the other day wouldn't allow that (I presume some would).

With SPDs it is so quick and easy to clip in that I never need or want to ride unclipped.

I can get out of clips very quickly if the bike slips (helpful in winter).

Provided you set the tension fairly lightly, it is just as easy to get out of SPDs. It just happens naturally.

wgwarburton

jedster wrote:

I think I would find it inconvenient to have to change shoes every time I want to use a bike. I like to be able to cycle in work-shoes or walk comfortably in cycle-shoes.

Personally, I nearly always where MTB cycling shoes (good for walking in as the cleats are recessed) and I leave my work shoes at work. I do have SPDs with a polymer frame around them on one bike, these provide a reasonable platform for riding with normal shoes.

With toeclips I can sprint from lights without clipping in if I need to and do it later, the clipless pedals I tried the other day wouldn't allow that (I presume some would).

With SPDs it is so quick and easy to clip in that I never need or want to ride unclipped.

I can get out of clips very quickly if the bike slips (helpful in winter).

Provided you set the tension fairly lightly, it is just as easy to get out of SPDs. It just happens naturally.

OK: so lets' say, for the sake of argument, that I embrace all that wholeheartedly and there's no advantage to toeclips over clipless... that still leaves the question of what clipless have to offer over toeclips!!

Surely it's more than just "it's easier to learn"?

UndercoverElephant- I can spin down Dundas Street at 165rpm, so I reckon I can do circles... I have to admit I'm not applying much power (well, torque technically) at that pace, though!!

Cheers,
W.

baloo_the_bear

I find that my pedal stroke has become more efficient since I went "clipless".

Maybe thats in my head, but i can live with that if I feel better and cycle faster.

Never tried toe-clips so cant comment on difference.

I am surprised noone has mentioned the satisfying "click" as you engage with the pedal. Thats a definite plus!

RE: the OP. I fell twice on my first spd ride. My wife thought it was hilarious. I havent fallen off since. It becomes second nature to disengage. I dont even know im doing it now, i just do.

AndyManc

Aguila wrote:

AndyManc wrote:

Mark Elvin wrote:

mickbrown wrote:

I couldn't get on with them so I got some platforms with those little studs in. Once my feet are on them they are not going anywhere.

Horse for courses and all that but I just don't see the benefits of SPDs.

It's all about being able to get power on the up stroke as well as the down stroke.

Which can be done safely with toe clips.

SPD's also restrict joint movement, knee and ankle joints are both placed in a set position with minimal movement, I like to place my joints in a natural position of my own choice .


.

This is also wrong, you choose the position of your joints when you set up the pedals/cleats. Most SPDs have lots of free movement side to side.

No it's not wrong, your initial set up is still giving minimal movement, irrespective of how much float an SPD may have.

Dependent on my mood, fitness level, joint flexibility I want my ankle, knee and leg to be positioned exactly where I feel best .... that's at the start, during and throughout the whole of the ride .... an initial set up of an SPD cannot cater for this.


.

tiny_pens

OK: so lets' say, for the sake of argument, that I embrace all that wholeheartedly and there's no advantage to toeclips over clipless... that still leaves the question of what clipless have to offer over toeclips!!

Surely it's more than just "it's easier to learn"?

UndercoverElephant- I can spin down Dundas Street at 165rpm, so I reckon I can do circles... I have to admit I'm not applying much power (well, torque technically) at that pace, though!!

Cheers,
W.

Nope I think it is just that it is easier to learn. To get the same amount of benefit from toe straps they need to be properly tightened (try AWESOME bunny hops with loose straps if you don't believe me)

Aguila

AndyManc wrote:

Aguila wrote:

AndyManc wrote:

Mark Elvin wrote:

mickbrown wrote:

I couldn't get on with them so I got some platforms with those little studs in. Once my feet are on them they are not going anywhere.

Horse for courses and all that but I just don't see the benefits of SPDs.

It's all about being able to get power on the up stroke as well as the down stroke.

Which can be done safely with toe clips.

SPD's also restrict joint movement, knee and ankle joints are both placed in a set position with minimal movement, I like to place my joints in a natural position of my own choice .


.

This is also wrong, you choose the position of your joints when you set up the pedals/cleats. Most SPDs have lots of free movement side to side.

No it's not wrong, your initial set up is still giving minimal movement, irrespective of how much float an SPD may have.

Dependent on my mood, fitness level, joint flexibility I want my ankle, knee and leg to be positioned exactly where I feel best .... that's at the start, during and throughout the whole of the ride .... an initial set up of an SPD cannot cater for this.


.

Hmmm...... Sorry but still dont agree.

Your ankle does not just move in one axis and the spd system is only fixing the position of your foot (albeit loosly with float) relative to the pedal. It doesn't fix your ankle. Your knee position is not going to be significantly variable regardless of pedal system. It's more dependant on crank length, seat height etc.

If you are using toes straps with a meaningful dgree of tightness (ie pretty tight) I do not beleive that you are capable of altering the things you think you are during a ride. If you are just on flat pedals with no restraint that's different, but you aren't.

nickthetrick

I think anyone using clips will get an instant benefit out of the 'circular pedal stroke' whether they realise they're doing it or not. It won't be a huge benefit, but usually you can detect it when you revert back to flat pedals. You can probably train yourself to exaggerate the circular pedalling, though it will never be truly smooth. Personally I find the most notable benefit is when digging deep during an uphill section.

As for toe clips, they're of minimal help, unless combined with toe straps. The toe clip itself seems only to act as a guide for correct foot positioning since it won't inhibit lateral movement of the foot. The strap part which is optional will allow better transfer to the pedal if tighened (both up and down stroke), but this comes at a cost. A long time ago I had a minor accident (car pulled into me) and my feet where in toe clips+straps. One foot got trapped sufficiently that the bolt sheared on the toe clip - result was a wrenched knee (think miniscal cartilege damage, not good).

Finally, I don't see the benefit of toe clips or clipless pedals for bunny hops. The correct technique (which I never mastered!) is to push down and forward to invoke the hop. All the best trails riders will not use clips or clipless pedals (as they need to have instant foot release from pedal). So if you're using clipless pedals to help bunny hopping you have an incorrect technique.

jonny_trousers

I like my SPDs. They are nice.

notsoblue

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

I like my SPDs. They are nice.

+1

Been using SPDs for years and using normal pedals feels unstable and slow now. Toeclips look like a nightmare to me, very dangerous. I feel very connected to my bike with SPD and I can disconnect without a thought when I need to. Its just a quick twist of the ankle that I do subconsciously now. Had a couple of offs and never had a problem being stuck to the pedals.

Only downside is that you need special shoes. But tbh, this is a good thing for commuting. I cycle in all weather, and wouldn't want to get my work shoes scuffed, dusty, wet or muddy...

s1lko

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the choice of cleat position (fore and aft) as a benefit over toeclips, which are instead governed by the size of your feet (toes pushed into the clip for foreward motion).

snailracer

I wonder if the benefit from clipless is in the shoes, and not the pedal :? I am assuming there is a real benefit and it's not just placebo.

Clipless shoes usually have hard soles and stiff uppers, minimizing flexing losses, whereas flat pedals are used with normal shoes which are softer (ie lossier) for comfortable walking.

Buckled_Rims

snailracer wrote:

I wonder if the benefit from clipless is in the shoes, and not the pedal :? I am assuming there is a real benefit and it's not just placebo.

Clipless shoes usually have hard soles and stiff uppers, minimizing flexing losses, whereas flat pedals are used with normal shoes which are softer (ie lossier) for comfortable walking.

The stiffness helps to spread the whole pedal as a platform. It's not a placebo effect. There far too many cyclists who prefer clipless. After the initial period of a bit of clipping in and out frustration, it become second nature. You are attached to the bike and your foot is held in one place with a bit of float.

With flat pedals you tend to shift foot position minutely. I used to use straps in the 1970'/80's, there's absolutely no way I'd go back to them, I'd rather carry an extra spare pair of shoes for walking.