Sportives are not Races.

bompington

dmclite wrote:

I am not asserting a food chain superiority complex here
...
Maybe most blokes who race would not have problems with a sportive, but a lot of sportive riders would struggle in a race

Looks like you've contradicted yourself there!

I can't help gettting the feeling that the subtext is basically

"races are for real cyclists, sportives are for old, fat noob wannabes with expensive bikes they really don't deserve who are kidding themselves on that they are racing"

desweller

bompington wrote:

dmclite wrote:

I am not asserting a food chain superiority complex here
...
Maybe most blokes who race would not have problems with a sportive, but a lot of sportive riders would struggle in a race

Looks like you've contradicted yourself there!

I can't help gettting the feeling that the subtext is basically

"races are for real cyclists, sportives are for old, fat noob wannabes with expensive bikes they really don't deserve who are kidding themselves on that they are racing"

+1

ThreeLionsBrian

jim453 wrote:

Exactly who was saying a sportive was a race that DMC needed to assert his ability?

Relax DMC, you're probably an ok rider. No need to crow about it.

I was saying in another thread that timed events are perceived as races by their participants although not legally recognised as such.

SteveR_100Milers

Previosly this topic arises because some sportive participants moan about other riders not helping or doing a turn, to which the sensible reply is that its not a race! Anyone can ride a sportive either with serious intent to get a fast time, beat their mates etc, or just pootle around. However, it is a legitimate complaint/excuse to make in a road race that no one does a turn or helps out, or at least use as a reason for not winning anyway as there are no rules that insist on doing your turn. The issue to my mind is people taking sportives too seriously, and when you do to the detriment of other's enjoyment, then it's time to take part in a "real" race.
I've ridden both, and sportives are fun, road racing isn't until its over as it hurts too much whilst you're doing it.

Anonymous

I am relaxed, cool as flip and blissed off my chunk.

I just felt I had to point out the obvious and probably knew I'd get flamed for it. Don't mind I'm a big boy, didn't mean to contradict myself and have had my quotes shortened to help others put a point across. It's ok, because I know deep down that...........























Sportives are not races.

Anonymous

ThreeLionsBrian wrote:

Done both, been fed on both. Pedals rotated the same funlily enough at the same speed too. I always carry my own food as stocks cannot always be guaranteed! paid for or not. In fact i tend to stay in a group more on an audax it saves on the navigating.

You had feeding stations in a race ? Were there boy scouts helping hand out the bananas ? :shock:

Anonymous

bompington wrote:

dmclite wrote:

I am not asserting a food chain superiority complex here
...
Maybe most blokes who race would not have problems with a sportive, but a lot of sportive riders would struggle in a race

Looks like you've contradicted yourself there!

I can't help gettting the feeling that the subtext is basically

"races are for real cyclists, sportives are for old, fat noob wannabes with expensive bikes they really don't deserve who are kidding themselves on that they are racing"

Absolutely wrong. Just there seems to be a lot of posting on the forum over sportive etiquette, timing arguments, sitting in, etc and I felt it needed some clarification There is no snobbery on my part, had you posted the full part of my quote it would have said, that I didnt know how each rider would really fare and that it was food for thought. Quite unfair of you to paraphrase me to prove a point, I think.
If we were on a sportive now I feel like you would have been hugging my wheel for 30 miles and were about to shoot off for a good time right near the end.......

bompington

If you read my post it was not a gripe, just pointing out differences. I am not asserting a food chain superiority complex here, I race because I want to. The only person I am asserting is myself and my ability.

Or............put it like this. Maybe most blokes who race would not have problems with a sportive, but a lot of sportive riders would struggle in a race ? Is that a fair comment or too simplistic ? I dunno myself, food for thought.

There you are then, that looks a lot less snobbish now :!: :?:

I'm sorry, try as I might I can't read, in either the edited version or the original , anything other than the assertion that racers are superior (i.e fitter, faster, whatever) to sportifs.

Or................ Maybe most of the blokes who (while not racing, of course) finished the Etape C in under 3 1/2 hours (that's a bit over 23mph average) this year would not have problems with a cat 4 race, but a lot of cat 4 riders would struggle to get round so fast?

Is that statement true? Might be, I don't know. Does it prove anything? Definitely not. Does it reveal anything about my attitude? Perhaps it shows that I (being an occasional sportif not a real cyclist) want to defend the honour of my chosen way of participating, perhaps it just shows that sometimes I just can't help pushing buttons.

But you're free to interpret it how you like; and if I think you've got me wrong, I'm free to come back and clarify what I meant, or slag you off, or whatever. The beauty of the internet.

FWIW I'm actually the guy (old, fat, noobish, though not on an expensive bike) who was suckered into doing more than my fair share of leading into the wind for 20 miles, then got dropped like a brick as soon as the bunch went uphill.

Just as well I wasn't racing.

deptfordmarmoset

So are we saying the Tour de France isn't a race because, as the title clearly indicates, it's a tour...?

cookiemonster

Sportives are not races

They are in France

Airwave

Of course we all know a solo TT is a PROPER race.No wheel sucking,no where to hide,no team tactics,no catagories,no quibling over who did what to who&when.

ThreeLionsBrian

dmclite wrote:

ThreeLionsBrian wrote:

Done both, been fed on both. Pedals rotated the same funlily enough at the same speed too. I always carry my own food as stocks cannot always be guaranteed! paid for or not. In fact i tend to stay in a group more on an audax it saves on the navigating.

You had feeding stations in a race ? Were there boy scouts helping hand out the bananas ? :shock:

OK DMC you win i hope you can progress and reach the dizzy heights of domestique so you can hand out the bananas to the proper RACERS.

ThreeLionsBrian

At the end of the day it is people perception that counts. Sportives are a huge advertisement for cycling and Clubs will all benefit from increased membership. It's a win win for everyone.

magicrhodes

So I want to do a sportive, I know I can ride 100 miles so my next step is to complete that 100 miles in the fastest time possible so that I can feel that I am progressing and actually achieving something. So I'll ride at a speed that will enable me to do this, this does not mean that I am racing you, I am racing myself. If it is an event I have already done then I'll definitely want to do it faster than last time.

I really can't see why some people get their knickers in a twist over whether or not some people want to "race" in a sportive event. There is no rule to say that you have to keep up with them. You aren't, as far as I am aware, going to get forced into the broomwagen for getting dropped.

If someone wants to be the first person back why is that a problem for you? If you have had a nice day out, chatted, made a few new friends and completed the ride why are you demanding that someone else's idea of fun should match yours. Unless it is all because you are too upset that you aren't fast enough to first. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

desweller

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

So are we saying the Tour de France isn't a race because, as the title clearly indicates, it's a tour...?

And it has feeding stations so it's DEFINITELY not a race.

magicrhodes

Smokin Joe wrote:

nwallace wrote:

But results are often published showing times in order of fastest to slowest from Sportives.
Effectively ranking riders in time order and therefore allocating "positions" and essentially you are issuing Results.

If you did that in a motorsport event organised as non-competitive you would be hauled in front of the appropriate governing body for organising a competition without the appropriate permit.

But if the appropriate governing body (British Cycling) don't consider that to make it a race then. Meh.
It's an attempt to use the fact that results are issued to indicate that it's a competitive event and therefore a race under the Road Traffic Act that bothers me.

You've hit the nail on the head there.

Sportives are starting to sail very close to the wind legally, to a point where BC had to prevent an organiser from offering prizes to the fastest riders in a recent event (which one escapes me). Racing on the public highway is strictly controlled by act of parliament, and any impression given that it is a competitive event could land organisers and riders in serious trouble, and cause all sorts of problems to the future of road racing in this country.

If results weren't issued how long would it take for "unofficial results" to be posted on a bikeradar thread? I'm thinking as soon as the first rider gets home. Then see how competative it gets....

IronHorse100

..can...of...worms! To be fair to DMC, I don't think he had any intention of coming across as snobbish, just trying to clarify the distinction between the disciplines.

eh

Following up cookiemonsters post above, on the continent sportives are races and you can win good money for them. However, due to the law in the UK and they way they are organised they most definitly aren't races over here.

RichN95.

DesWeller wrote:

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

So are we saying the Tour de France isn't a race because, as the title clearly indicates, it's a tour...?

And it has feeding stations so it's DEFINITELY not a race.

And once at the Tour, Federico Bahamontes stopped for an ice cream at the top of a mountain, just like I, and others, did in the Dragon Ride.

More proof that the Tour is a glorified sportive.

sampurnell

surely the difference is just a technicality to get around the insurance issue that official "races" have on open roads.
i had it explained to me that a sportive HAS to publish the time results alphabetically, rather then in quickest slowest order..
but can someone explain to me if this IS the case then how can the tour of wessex SPORTIVE have KOM climbs?? surely awarding points for the first over the hill would indicate a race of somekind?
or am i just simple..... :oops:

http://pendragon-cc.com/sports/node/40

amaferanga

Anyone who has done both or even done a sportive and watched a bit of cycling on tv will know that sportives (in the UK) are nothing like races. They're even less like low level racing (3rd/4th cat, which is probably what most people on here have done).

But I'm sure we'll all much happier now that it has been formally brought to our attention :roll:

TheTalkingTurboTrainer

RichN95 wrote:

DesWeller wrote:

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

So are we saying the Tour de France isn't a race because, as the title clearly indicates, it's a tour...?

And it has feeding stations so it's DEFINITELY not a race.

And once at the Tour, Federico Bahamontes stopped for an ice cream at the top of a mountain, just like I, and others, did in the Dragon Ride.

More proof that the Tour is a glorified sportive.

Where riders donate blood. Perhaps it's a charity?

Anonymous

ThreeLionsBrian wrote:

dmclite wrote:

ThreeLionsBrian wrote:

Done both, been fed on both. Pedals rotated the same funlily enough at the same speed too. I always carry my own food as stocks cannot always be guaranteed! paid for or not. In fact i tend to stay in a group more on an audax it saves on the navigating.

You had feeding stations in a race ? Were there boy scouts helping hand out the bananas ? :shock:

OK DMC you win i hope you can progress and reach the dizzy heights of domestique so you can hand out the bananas to the proper RACERS.

I wasn't taking the pi55 when I put the OP up, just making a distinction. Like I originally said i have done both, enjoyed both but they are both very different animals. This thread has turned into "Dour blokes on Sportive threads, thread".

I think one way to look at it is the sections in the BikeRadar forum. There are different sections for "Amatuer Race" and "sportive, audax and training rides". Surely if there was no difference they would all be in the same subject ? Or have the esteemed boys and girls got it wrong as well ?

BTW there are some SPD sandals for sale in the classifieds you may be interested i n.

Anonymous

ThreeLionsBrian wrote:

dmclite wrote:

ThreeLionsBrian wrote:

Done both, been fed on both. Pedals rotated the same funlily enough at the same speed too. I always carry my own food as stocks cannot always be guaranteed! paid for or not. In fact i tend to stay in a group more on an audax it saves on the navigating.

You had feeding stations in a race ? Were there boy scouts helping hand out the bananas ? :shock:

OK DMC you win i hope you can progress and reach the dizzy heights of domestique so you can hand out the bananas to the proper RACERS.

You are such a funny sportive rider, glad I won. Not that winning here is like winning a proper race or something, hey hang on, a bit like a sportive then ? What a good analogy, heehee, thanks.

ThreeLionsBrian

Makes you wonder though if the law changed i bet they would soon be reclassified?

desweller

DMC, you are such a wind-up merchant .

Anyway, I still reckon races are made by the competitors, not the event. Two kids on Grifters down the street is still a race. Me and my work colleagues doing the work-to-Gloucester run is still a race.

ThreeLionsBrian

I rarely do sportives too fat and slow reflectors rattling does my head in and people laugh at my kit.

ThreeLionsBrian

Got some original shimano spd sandals in good nick, i wear them lots thanks for the heads up though

Airwave

I do a couple of sportives a year just for fun,but i race at least once a week.Which catagories am i allowed to browes mr/mrs dmclite? :roll: :roll: :roll:

bagpusscp

When I used to run audax events I charged £10 for a 400 k event and that included 3 hot meals.I offered a free ride to anyone who got round before Gethin Butler on that event, PBP qualifier.
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