National Champs RR not "fair"...
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Simon Notley wrote:Does this no teamwork rule apply to the mens race too? The one that was won by a breakaway of three riders from the same team? I've never seen that happen in a race where teamwork is allowed!
The men's race was different in that the leading riders were not working together to support one specific rider. If they had all been there JUST to work for Geraint - that would have been different than working together as any riders would do in a break.
I take it what happened in the women's race is that the Cervelo riders were all working for Pooley.0 -
Pokerface wrote:I don't think it's a matter of Nicole Cooke not being able to get a ride with a Pro Team - I think it's partly due to her trying to form her own team and then having that collapse around her. I suspect she doesn't want to simply join one of the big existing teams for whatever reason.
She also apparently annoyed the big teams by ringing round each one asking for what contract they'd offer, only to tell them she'd get back to them after she's seen if other teams will make better deals. People tend not to like that!"A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
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Pokerface wrote:Simon Notley wrote:Does this no teamwork rule apply to the mens race too? The one that was won by a breakaway of three riders from the same team? I've never seen that happen in a race where teamwork is allowed!
The men's race was different in that the leading riders were not working together to support one specific rider. If they had all been there JUST to work for Geraint - that would have been different than working together as any riders would do in a break.
I take it what happened in the women's race is that the Cervelo riders were all working for Pooley.
Fair point, I guess it depends on what is meant by collusion. It was fairly clear that the Sky riders colluded to form a breakaway with the aim of someone from Sky winning... but then it would be hard to form a breakaway without 'collusion' between riders on some level... as usual, the UCI have managed to baffle everyone.0 -
Its a bit daft to say they colluded they didn't even need to, even the UCI can't force you to follow the attack of another rider. Anyway Pooley had already drifted off the front before she attacked so who's fault is that for letting the wheel go? Road racing never has been fair get over it.
Nicole Cooke's dad is a major tw*t, so it could well be his doing the petty moaning on her site. Still get over it Pooley for at least this season has been the No.1 British rider.0 -
It was fairly clear that the Sky riders colluded to form a breakaway with the aim of someone from Sky winning
Appart from the fact it was Hunt who started the move and he ain't on Sky.0 -
Well what can I say, Emma is a member of our club(VC Norwich) so I'm bound to be a bit biased.
Get over it Nicole, I have always admired you and your achievments but you were beaten fair and square. Its not as if Emma is a top sprinter yet she rode away from Nicole just at the point Nicole should have gone. If the other girls had stonewalled Nicole and allowed Emma to TT her way in then perhaps she might have a case.
Anyway, congratulations to Emma top girl
Norfolk, who nicked all the hills?
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I've never heard of this rule. The whole point of some national champs is to get one of your team to win, for example the Dutch had 19 Rabo riders, although a sour Pieter Weening got trumped by Milram's Christian Knees.ProBiker wrote:"UCI Rules are quite clear and require no collusion in the competition."0 -
She needs to WTFU and get over it,0
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Gingerflash wrote:"No wonder Cooke finds herself in a team of one. "
It does seem, from every interview with her I've read, that she's always complaining about something or someone, involved in acrimony with former team-mates, managers, sponsors etc.
She's obviously massively talented, but seems to have made herself rather unattractive to potential sponsors.
I had the misfortune of dealing with her publicist once a couple of years ago - I can't remember her name, but I thought she was a rather unpleasant woman....
With 'friends' like that around her, I'm sure it doesn't help....0 -
I cant see anything on her site congratulating Pooley. Just sounds like a really poor loser.
She really looked like a donkey on the climbs compared to Pooley anyway.0 -
Yeah I posted that on page 1.0
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She road a really daft race. When it was cut to 4 laps it should have been to her favour, but she kept trying to attack Pooley, Laws and Armistead. That was always going to fail, she should have let them do the work and then won in the sprint. Emma Pooley is a fantastic rider I'm delighted she won. I have yet to meet a person sorry that Nichole Cooke lost, she's pretty unpopular.0
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Cooke has ridden for "Cervelo" - she joined the team when it was called Univega in 2006 bringing on extra sponsors herself (Raleigh and Lifeforce). At the time she was criticised for not joining T-Mobile but in her two seasons with Univega they topped the world rankings thanks in no small measure to her huge efforts. In 2008 she was with Halfords/GB in an attempt to win Olympics + World (which went pretty well) before idealistically launching VIsion 1.
Late last year after the failure of her Vision 1 team (which was giving much needed experience to young British riders) she joined one of the three giants of the women's peloton the German Equipe Nürnberger Versicherung who had been established for ten years.
They had announced a change of sponsor to become Team Skyter (a shipping company) a couple of months previously only for the sponsor to do a runner in December 2009 claiming costs were higher than expected, leading to much argument in press between Skyter and the Nurnberger management and promises of legal action etc to get hold of the funds/budget for the season.
It was eventually late January 2010 when the likes of Cooke, Amber Neben and Trixi Worrack found out that they were left without contracts (it seems the team management may not have signed a contract with the sponsor despite the announcement). By this stage the rosters of the major women's teams were filled and budgets allocated. Neben, like Cooke, is now riding for her national team. So that's two Olympic champions from 2008 screwed over.
As for the race itself, Cooke is wrong to criticise. It was clear the Cervelo girls were going to work her over if they could. She and Pooley attacked each other on every hill only for Pooley to sit up and wait for her team mates when the two neutralised each other. It would have been great to see a longer race and the two of them go head to head for a couple of laps.
Ironically the only other time she was beaten was 2000, when she returned as a 17 year old to defend the title. Story I've read is that British Cycling were so furious that someone from outside the system had won the race as a 16 year old that they put together a team of experienced riders from across the World Class Performance Programme and attacked Cooke repeatedly from the start to make sure she was beaten.0 -
I heard a rumor that after powering Univega to number 1 slot in the World and enabling them to secure the Cervelo sponsorship deal, they rewarded Cooke by reneging on her pay. ( A not uncommon thing to happen at the end of the season in the women's peloton). Last I heard she was taking them to court. In that case whatever we think, the court would decide who was right and wrong. I would love to know what went on.
Quite a big reason not to ride for the team. Quite a reason to get riders to ride against her.
Have a look at this pic. I think it was penultimate time after the top of the hill. Cooke was on the front dragging Emma (can only see her shadow) away from Sharron and Lizzie, who had been distanced separately, when they came past me. Cooke kept looking back at the gap to Sharron, and was just driving it. Pretty good tactics to me - get the odds even and then sort it out, 1 on 1. What is that Cervelo car doing in the gap? Doesn't it have to get to 60 seconds ? No way was it that, 20 30 yes. Then somehow, Sharron and Lizzie were able to catch up again? Why did the commisaires allow the car into the gap ? Do they not know why the 60 second rule is there?
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Maybe there is some more to this story we don't know? Everyone wants a plucky underdog to win and 10 years is one hell of a long time in anyone's book. But hold on we are sick to death of following false heroes on the men's scene. Emma is certainly not that.
Emma is the best rider in the UK at present, bar none.
But Emma and Cervelo need to win square. That car is not there admiring the view. Final lap up and Cooke did not seem quite so keen on breaking it up. Beryl has some absolutely scathing things to say about what riders did ganging up on her and organisers stitching her up so she did not win. I read her book and it did not come across as sour grapes to me. Legitimate complaints about small minded, pettyand jealous people. Which leaves this a bit disappointing as Lizzie Emma and Nicole are all great riders and no way can be described as lightweights. What should have happened is they should have had a super race we could enthrall over not one that leaves a sour taste in the mouth. That car - the roads were narrow - it could only have got into the gap if the commisaire allowed it in. Refs can ruin a game they can also make it. These girls deserve better.0 -
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It's does her no favours to moan about it but she was the strongest on the day - just not strong enough to beat three of them.
I don't buy the argument she did too much attacking - you can't come into the last few miles with three from the same team and expect to win - especially when one of them is a sprinter.
I know she rubs some people up the wrong way - probably part and parcel of what makes her such a competitor though. Personally I think she's a not just a great rider but far more exciting to watch racing than any of the other British women.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:It's does her no favours to moan about it but she was the strongest on the day - just not strong enough to beat three of them.
I don't buy the argument she did too much attacking - you can't come into the last few miles with three from the same team and expect to win - especially when one of them is a sprinter.
I know she rubs some people up the wrong way - probably part and parcel of what makes her such a competitor though. Personally I think she's a not just a great rider but far more exciting to watch racing than any of the other British women.
Which one was the sprinter?0 -
will3 wrote:Tom Butcher wrote:It's does her no favours to moan about it but she was the strongest on the day - just not strong enough to beat three of them.
I don't buy the argument she did too much attacking - you can't come into the last few miles with three from the same team and expect to win - especially when one of them is a sprinter.
I know she rubs some people up the wrong way - probably part and parcel of what makes her such a competitor though. Personally I think she's a not just a great rider but far more exciting to watch racing than any of the other British women.
Which one was the sprinter?
I'd image Lizzie Armitstead's pretty rapid, being a points/scratch race World's medallist.Twitter: @RichN950 -
So why didn't Cooke go with Emma at the end?0
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Some good info Hoto - thanks.Contador is the Greatest0
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Surprised by her comments. I've seen her riding since she was a 12 year old racing local crits against the boys and she has always been a trier and never shown any signs of being "awkward" as some have suggested. I do think she made a bad mistake in trying to set up her own team last year and she should have concentrated on riding rather than coping with the stress of managing a team and ensuring people got paid. Pooley deserved the win and Nicole didn't help herself my attacking and dropping a couple of her ex-teammates who had bridged to the 4 leaders. Had she let them recover they may have caused the Cervelo trio a few problems.
I think may stem from the fact that Nicole has spent most of her career until the last couple of years fending for herself at international level. She doesn't always come across as the best tactical rider and has got by mainly on hard graft and natural ability but other riders can now match her on those.
She has a point to some extent to the letter of the rules but she is experienced to know that the rule is never enforced and I'm sure her trade teams have helped her at the Worlds in the past.0 -
I watched the last 2/3 laps of the race and I don't think it's fair to suggest that Cervelo 'ganged up' on Nicole.
It was clear that Pooley and Cooke were the strongest riders in the race and spent much of the last two laps distanced from Laws and Armistead anyway. Both riders attacked, but neutralised each other for the most part - Laws & Armistead were largely riding their own tempo.
It was only on the last lap that the four riders came together and Laws put in a couple of attacks, which Cooke jumped on. Armistead sat on and contributed nothing, as she knew her best chance was a sprint.
So in a nutshell it was Cooke v Pooley for the most part, with Cooke having to mark a couple of half-hearted attacks from Laws in the finale. Seems Cooke is moaning about Pooley not working with her to distance her trade team-mates and sprint it out as a two-some - a dire situation for Pooley, so no wonder she sat up.
I'm not convinced the race would've played out any differently even if all four girls were on different teams - there's no way Pooley would've put 100% into towing Cooke to the line to lose the spring (again!).0 -
Sounds like Emma rode a smart race then.
I loved the bit in the interview about how she was annoyed that the race was shorttened coz she'd ate loads of pasta the night before 0 -
I saw her say that on TV and it was very much tongue in cheek (the pasta comment - I think all the riders were genuinely disappointed that the race was shortened). Just goes to show how reporting comments made word for word doesn't necessarily translate when you can't see the person making them. Nicole was pretty gracious in defeat straight after the race. Pooley did well to surprise everyone with an attack at the end and to hold on for the finish and to be honest it's nice to see a new champion.0
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Pross wrote:I saw her say that on TV and it was very much tongue in cheek (the pasta comment - I think all the riders were genuinely disappointed that the race was shortened). Just goes to show how reporting comments made word for word doesn't necessarily translate when you can't see the person making them. Nicole was pretty gracious in defeat straight after the race. Pooley did well to surprise everyone with an attack at the end and to hold on for the finish and to be honest it's nice to see a new champion.
yeah TBH I saw the interview video on t'inteternet. 'tis very Emma.0
