Is it wrong to state a cyclists ethnicity
Comments
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Always Tyred wrote:When I was last in Guyana
I haven't been to Guyana since 1976, when we moved back to England (my father was Guyanese, and I lived there for about 18 months). Maybe one day I'll go back (I still have some family there) -- I'll probably use an England cricket tour of the West Indies as a reason for the trip.
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If you don't say "he's black" (which is fine, not just IMO, but according to the trainers on a diversity course I have been on), don't you get into the Little Britain sketch with David Walliams is the university secretary describing various students to the lecturer over the phone?
I take it you'd prefer "he's black" to "he's the one over there. That that glacier just crept past." :twisted:0 -
Well said, Corriander.FCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
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Absolutely not! It should never be mentioned.
I once overheard somebody describe me as 'that man over there'.
How incredibly sexist!0 -
CiB wrote:
DDD - I hope all your babies are as black as you are, when you have them.
My kids with the present Ms DDD would be mixed race/bi-racial/mixed heritage/mixed ethnicity (can of worms that one).
Basically they won't be black, like Lewis Hamilton, Ashley Cole, Rio Ferdinand, Aaron Lennon and Theo Walcot aren't black. Nor is Ryan Giggs white, apparently.... (that really isn't even a point I just like type sh*t today).
I have no issue with this; you are what you are there is no point shirking from this or getting upset when people point it out (when there isn't any malice, of course). I would want my kids to know their heritage on both sides of their family. In fact I look forward to learning more about Irish culture when the time comes to teaching their nippers about Mummy's side of the family.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Coriander wrote:In your tale on the L2B thread there was absolutely no need to cite the woman's skin colour.
There's no need to, maybe, but neither does it become gratuously offensive by the mere act of mentioning it. There was no real need to state that it was a female cyclist - he could have just said cyclist - but it adds to the description [whoops nearly said colour there] of the piece. In the context, DD was - oh bugger it - just adding colour to the description; addtional descriptive text that adds to the mental image of his writing. Fine by me. If people are so keen to read things into stuff like that more fool them.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:CiB wrote:
DDD - I hope all your babies are as black as you are, when you have them.
My kids with the present Ms DDD would be mixed race/bi-racial/mixed heritage/mixed ethnicity (can of worms that one).
Basically they won't be black, like Lewis Hamilton, Ashley Cole, Rio Ferdinand, Aaron Lennon and Theo Walcot aren't black. Nor is Ryan Giggs white, apparently.... (that really isn't even a point I just like type sh*t today).
I have no issue with this; you are what you are there is no point shirking from this or getting upset when people point it out (when there isn't any malice, of course). I would want my kids to know their heritage on both sides of their family. In fact I look forward to learning more about Irish culture when the time comes to teaching their nippers about Mummy's side of the family.
Whoa now - you never said she was Irish. Ooooh nooooo..
<inserts huge IRONY smiley here>0 -
Well, if you were going to a Nazi Skinhead festival it would probably be best not to announce your ethnicity ahead of time.0
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In sheffield I am the quite tall, slightly fat bastard who wears a pig shirt.0
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Coriander wrote:
Just one problem - your scenario above is utterly different from the one that prompted this thread.
In this scenario no, it makes sense to highlight distinguishing features. In your tale on the L2B thread there was absolutely no need to cite the woman's skin colour.
Re. The London to Brighton post,
The point is that there is (and I'm say is as the given rule) nothing wrong with describing the woman as black. If there is, then you could argue that there is something wrong with stating the persons gender.
The fact that she is a woman had no relevance to the fact that she crashed, but you accept that I state her gender. Yet, you have an issue with stating her ethnicity. Why?
In writing or telling a story the picture is painted from the detail you give. When reliving an experience you remember the detail. For me I saw a black woman crash her bike. So I told it as I saw it. I'm not seeing what issue is.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Even in the context Coriander states (I'd presumed this was a reaction to AT's football thread) I don't think it's an issue - no more than stating the rider was female. It's just an adjective, like tall, short, fat, thin, long-haired, short-haired.... etc.... etc....
ETA: I do think it's a bit unfortunate that you say 'the black' when referring to her, but I presumed this was just a typo and you'd missed out the word 'lady'.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:
My kids with the present Ms DDD would be mixed race/bi-racial/mixed heritage/mixed ethnicity (can of worms that one).
Basically they won't be black, like Lewis Hamilton, Ashley Cole, Rio Ferdinand, Aaron Lennon and Theo Walcot aren't black. Nor is Ryan Giggs white, apparently.... (that really isn't even a point I just like type sh*t today).
I have no issue with this; you are what you are there is no point shirking from this or getting upset when people point it out (when there isn't any malice, of course). I would want my kids to know their heritage on both sides of their family. In fact I look forward to learning more about Irish culture when the time comes to teaching their nippers about Mummy's side of the family the bunch of drunken, thieving pikeys.
EFA
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Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter0 -
CiB wrote:Coriander wrote:In your tale on the L2B thread there was absolutely no need to cite the woman's skin colour.
There's no need to, maybe, but neither does it become gratuously offensive by the mere act of mentioning it. There was no real need to state that it was a female cyclist - he could have just said cyclist - but it adds to the description [whoops nearly said colour there] of the piece. In the context, DD was - oh bugger it - just adding colour to the description; addtional descriptive text that adds to the mental image of his writing. Fine by me. If people are so keen to read things into stuff like that more fool them.
I didn't say it was offensive, gratuitously or otherwise, and it may have added some colour to the anecdote, but I still feel it wasn't necessary.0 -
Whatever 'Black' and 'White' are anyway - most people use them in a visual sense rather than a strict ancestral sense. Most of us are a lot more mongrel than we think, and ethnicity is as much chosen as an accident of birth.
EDIT: If we are all going to stick to only what is necessary, then this whole forum is going to get a bit thin.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
CiB wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:CiB wrote:
DDD - I hope all your babies are as black as you are, when you have them.
My kids with the present Ms DDD would be mixed race/bi-racial/mixed heritage/mixed ethnicity (can of worms that one).
Basically they won't be black, like Lewis Hamilton, Ashley Cole, Rio Ferdinand, Aaron Lennon and Theo Walcot aren't black. Nor is Ryan Giggs white, apparently.... (that really isn't even a point I just like type sh*t today).
I have no issue with this; you are what you are there is no point shirking from this or getting upset when people point it out (when there isn't any malice, of course). I would want my kids to know their heritage on both sides of their family. In fact I look forward to learning more about Irish culture when the time comes to teaching their nippers about Mummy's side of the family.
Whoa now - you never said she was Irish. Ooooh nooooo..
<inserts huge IRONY smiley here>
Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
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Whatever 'Black' and 'White' are anyway - most people use them in a visual sense
rather than a strict ancestral sense. Most of us are a lot more mongrel than we think, and ethnicity is as much chosen as an accident of birth.
I'm not, I'm a 100% brotha!I didn't say it was offensive, gratuitously or otherwise, and it may have added some colour to the anecdote, but I still feel it wasn't necessary.
But you can accept that I described the cyclist as female. Why?Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
MatHammond wrote:Just added my 2p in the L2B thread...
And with it you opened up a discussion that could lead to:
Can the same ethnicity be racist to each other? (which, on my comicbook site translates into can black people be racist).
I can't discuss that one as freely or with the same level of close to the wind enjoyment here (as I can on my comicbook site), so I'm leaving that one alone....Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
It is all about context.
I hear black people calling other black people the N word quite frequently. But not always in a racist way.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:MatHammond wrote:Just added my 2p in the L2B thread...
And with it you opened up a discussion that could lead to:
Can the same ethnicity be racist to each other? (which, on my comicbook site translates into can black people be racist).
I can't discuss that one as freely or with the same level of close to the wind enjoyment here (as I can on my comicbook site), so I'm leaving that one alone....
Not sure which thread I should be listing this under now, but yes, of course they can - seen it happen to a close friend of mine EDIT: Just realised I slightly misread DDD's point, so 'it' didn't quite happen to a close friend (although something similar did. Basic Point still stands though.
I think people have a natural inclination towards suspicion of other people who aren't 'the same' as them either in appearance, or some other factor - those not part of the our particular 'tribe'. Those of us with a bit of decency recognise this and try to overcome it/keep it in check, but I think it's a pretty deep-seated thing in all of us.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I have a mixed Trini/British background, very racially diverse. Its pretty normal in my family to note someone's race or mix when describing them. The white side of my family will very rarely do this though because ethnicity simply isn't that relevant to their day to day. Race has a pretty different meaning to you as a person depending on if you're in the majority or form part of minority. I don't think theres anything "wrong" or "right" about identifying someone's ethnicity, it depends on the context in which its used. If its descriptive I don't see any harm at all. In fact, intentionally avoiding mentioning someone's race when trying to describe them achieves the opposite effect than is intended.
My2p0 -
How come rap artist Dr. Dre can use the 'N' word on his multi-million selling albums and win a MOBO award, yet when I used it at my son's football match I was asked to leave the park? Once again, it's one law for the rich and another for the poor.0
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BR 1979 wrote:How come rap artist Dr. Dre can use the 'N' word on his multi-million selling albums and win a MOBO award, yet when I used it at my son's football match I was asked to leave the park? Once again, it's one law for the rich and another for the poor.
Joke?
Or were you using it to insult the ref. 'Man in black' and 'black man' are not the same thing 0 -
Concur. I've given you SC Stats, I help out with the Scouts, help with school things, navigate old ladies across the road whether they want to go or not, and you get to be known as a decent fellah. And then you quietly shag one goat, and that's it. Goat Shagger. 20 years of it now....BR 1979 wrote:How come rap artist Dr. Dre can use the 'N' word on his multi-million selling albums and win a MOBO award, yet when I used it at my son's football match I was asked to leave the park? Once again, it's one law for the rich and another for the poor. 0 -
Yes, they should have finished the new stadium by then.Agent57 wrote:Always Tyred wrote:When I was last in Guyana
I haven't been to Guyana since 1976, when we moved back to England (my father was Guyanese, and I lived there for about 18 months). Maybe one day I'll go back (I still have some family there) -- I'll probably use an England cricket tour of the West Indies as a reason for the trip.
Interesting place. Couldn't bear the climate and the flatness of Georgetown, myself. But I got the chance to go to the interior, at the border with Brazil and it was like a different country, so it was only the climate I struggled with. The people seemed more laid back there as well.0 -
Always Tyred wrote:
Yes, they should have finished the new stadium by then.Agent57 wrote:Always Tyred wrote:When I was last in Guyana
I haven't been to Guyana since 1976, when we moved back to England (my father was Guyanese, and I lived there for about 18 months). Maybe one day I'll go back (I still have some family there) -- I'll probably use an England cricket tour of the West Indies as a reason for the trip.
Interesting place. Couldn't bear the climate and the flatness of Georgetown, myself. But I got the chance to go to the interior, at the border with Brazil and it was like a different country, so it was only the climate I struggled with. The people seemed more laid back there as well.
I was too young to really appreciate much of the experience (was about 5-6 years old), but I have some fond memories of Georgetown and the Corentyne area where my grandparents lived. There's a high school in Corentyne that's named after my grandfather. 0 -
CiB wrote:
Go and get your goat!0
