Basso's blood results from Giro
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4607/ ... ished.aspx
With the additional tests due on Mapei website soon, that will be 5 blood tests. Usually Sassi has quite a lot of info on there, so it'll be worth a peak if you're interested in such things.
With the additional tests due on Mapei website soon, that will be 5 blood tests. Usually Sassi has quite a lot of info on there, so it'll be worth a peak if you're interested in such things.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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It's interesting but there's something funny;The results show a human winner, different from the Italian rider who won the 2006 Giro d'Italia by nearly 10 minutes. Following the 2006 Giro d'Italia, investigators linked Basso to Operación Puerto by showing he had blood stored in Madrid.
They say that Basso this year was very different from the 2006 but....wasn't he banned due to ATTEMPTED doping?0 -
Italiano wrote:It's interesting but there's something funny;The results show a human winner, different from the Italian rider who won the 2006 Giro d'Italia by nearly 10 minutes. Following the 2006 Giro d'Italia, investigators linked Basso to Operación Puerto by showing he had blood stored in Madrid.
They say that Basso this year was very different from the 2006 but....wasn't he banned due to ATTEMPTED doping?
Valid point !!. :?0 -
So it's clear Hct will decrease during a long tour then. That's the interesting bit. How does this compare to other riders' results published for Tour periods?___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
In last year's Tour Armstrong's haemocrit levels were actually slightly higher at the end of the Tour than they were before the start. They did fall a few percentage points on a couple of occasions during the Tour but then rapidly rose again, usually after a rest day...calvjones wrote:So it's clear Hct will decrease during a long tour then. That's the interesting bit. How does this compare to other riders' results published for Tour periods?
[Armstrong's] hematocrit and hemoglobin on 7/2, 2 days before the start of the race, was 42.8 and 14.3. On 7/25, one day before the last day of the race, it was 43 and 14.5. Also, 7/13 was a rest day, and his numbers rise from 40.7 and 13.7 on 7/11 to 43.1 and 14.4 on 7/14. On 7/20, another rest day, his numbers are 41.7 and 14, and then 43 and 14.5 on 7/25.
http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/ ... suspicious
Cyclevaughters: yeah, it's very complex how the avoid all the controls now, but it's not any new drug or anything, just the resources and planning to pull of a well devised plan
Cyclevaughters: it's why they all got dropped on stage 9 - no refill yet - then on the rest day - boom 800ml of packed cells
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis ... ssage.html0 -
Thanks BB. Won a little bet with myself there
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Strava is not Zen.0 -
Nice to see stats that look believable.
I was watching Mr B, last night, in the GP Nobili. Vince Nibs is tearing it up in Slovakia.
Somehow, I don't think we'll be getting any of Lance's figures published this year and Mr McDolittle won't be passing any comments regarding his passport values, either.
Supping with the devil, has that effect, eh Pat?
+1calvjones wrote:Thanks BB. Won a little bet with myself there "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
calvjones wrote:Thanks BB. Won a little bet with myself there
Also relevant are the figures for Landis in the 2006 Tour, and we all know he he managed to 'win' that particular race...
In a pre-Tour blood screen from June 29, two days before the 2006 race began, Landis had a hematocrit level of 44.8 percent and hemoglobin level of 15.5. On July 11, 10 stages into the Tour, his hematocrit had increased to 48.2 and his hemoglobin to 16.1.
This caught the attention of Michael Ashenden, project coordinator for an Australian research consortium called Science and Industry Against Blood Doping, because the body's concentration of red blood cells naturally decreases during an exhausting competition such as the Tour de France.
“Going from 15.5 to 16.1 (in hemoglobin) is not that unusual when not competing,” Ashenden said by phone from Australia. “But it is very unusual to see an increase after a hard week of cycling. You'd expect it to be the reverse. You'd expect that to fall in a clean athlete. An increase like this in the midst of the Tour de France would be highly, highly unlikely.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/20 ... andis.html0 -
Italiano wrote:
They say that Basso this year was very different from the 2006 but....wasn't he banned due to ATTEMPTED doping?
If you want to be pedantic about it, he was accused of storing blood for use in doping practises. So he admitted that eventually. All the blood in Fuentes fridge indicated Ullrich / Basso / Valverde were preparing to dope but it didn't actually prove they did it.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Italiano wrote:
They say that Basso this year was very different from the 2006 but....wasn't he banned due to ATTEMPTED doping?
If you want to be pedantic about it, he was accused of storing blood for use in doping practises. So he admitted that eventually. All the blood in Fuentes fridge indicated Ullrich / Basso / Valverde were preparing to dope but it didn't actually prove they did it.
Quote:
"The results show a human winner, different from the Italian rider who won the 2006 Giro d'Italia by nearly 10 minutes. Following the 2006 Giro d'Italia, investigators linked Basso to Operación Puerto by showing he had blood stored in Madrid."
I must be reading that wrong then 'cause if the quote above doesn't imply the 'belief' that Basso in fact did dope in 2006 what does it mean ? :? .Seriously..0 -
iainf72 wrote:pictit wrote:
I must be reading that wrong then 'cause if the quote above doesn't imply the 'belief' that Basso in fact did dope in 2006 what does it mean ? :? .Seriously..
He admitted it in a magazine this year, basically.
He actually admitted he did dope,not 'thought about doping' ?.Did he go into any time span and type of 'assistance' he used ?.0 -
pictit wrote:
He actually admitted he did dope,not 'thought about doping' ?.Did he go into any time span and type of 'assistance' he used ?.
He said something like "we all know how the 06 Giro was won" and it was quite clear what he meant. And the final line was like "I'd like to win the Giro again, clean"
It was in a Stephan Farrand interview in Cycle Sport - Worth seeking out.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:pictit wrote:
He actually admitted he did dope,not 'thought about doping' ?.Did he go into any time span and type of 'assistance' he used ?.
He said something like "we all know how the 06 Giro was won" and it was quite clear what he meant. And the final line was like [b]"I'd like to win the Giro again, clean"[/b]
It was in a Stephan Farrand interview in Cycle Sport - Worth seeking out.
Lets hope it was so.After seeing him and LA finish alone on those two climbs in the 2004 [?] Tour I have always 'liked' him
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His ride last year was also interesting:pictit wrote:Quote: "The results show a human winner, different from the Italian rider who won the 2006 Giro d'Italia by nearly 10 minutes. Following the 2006 Giro d'Italia, investigators linked Basso to Operación Puerto by showing he had blood stored in Madrid."
GIRO D’ITALIA TOP 10 PREDICTION
1 Ivan Basso
5th
We said: Remember the 2006 Giro? When he rode up every mountain with his mouth shut, breathing through his skin, pursued only by a buffalo on heat?
Verdict: This was not the same Basso as 2006. He struggled to rediscover his effortless high-cadence style and it looked like it hurt.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/gir ... we-do.html0 -
iainf72 wrote:
He said something like "we all know how the 06 Giro was won" and it was quite clear what he meant. And the final line was like "I'd like to win the Giro again, clean"
It was in a Stephan Farrand interview in Cycle Sport - Worth seeking out.
Thanks for the info.
Never read/seen any admission from Basso on italian media.0 -
The "attempt" was simply a means to duck the pressure, a weasel excuse since his blood was in a freezer and a DNA test was looming. To think he never touched anything before this point, whether as an amateur or during his pro career - matching Armstrong up Hautacam, winning the Giro by 10 minutes etc - takes a massive amount of faith.
The past is the past and those values are interesting, and a sign - but not proof - that things are better. If it's true then it sends a big signal to many, riders included, that you can win the biggest of races by doing it right.
One question I have is who does these tests. I could draw a pretty graph, but who validates the data and ensures it is correct?0 -
Kleber - these are the UCi's biological passport figures so will be from one of the accredited WADA labs. MAPEI's figues will be their own (I'd imagine they use an accredited lab as well).0
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BikingBernie wrote:
In last year's Tour Armstrong's haemocrit levels were actually slightly higher at the end of the Tour than they were before the start. They did fall a few percentage points on a couple of occasions during the Tour but then rapidly rose again, usually after a rest day...calvjones wrote:So it's clear Hct will decrease during a long tour then. That's the interesting bit. How does this compare to other riders' results published for Tour periods?
[Armstrong's] hematocrit and hemoglobin on 7/2, 2 days before the start of the race, was 42.8 and 14.3. On 7/25, one day before the last day of the race, it was 43 and 14.5. Also, 7/13 was a rest day, and his numbers rise from 40.7 and 13.7 on 7/11 to 43.1 and 14.4 on 7/14. On 7/20, another rest day, his numbers are 41.7 and 14, and then 43 and 14.5 on 7/25.
http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/ ... suspicious
Cyclevaughters: yeah, it's very complex how the avoid all the controls now, but it's not any new drug or anything, just the resources and planning to pull of a well devised plan
Cyclevaughters: it's why they all got dropped on stage 9 - no refill yet - then on the rest day - boom 800ml of packed cells
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis ... ssage.html
Don't want to turn this thread into an Armstrong one but still find it one of the more extraordinary bits of the whole Armstrong story that he was able to get away with these very suspicious blood results last year not really being commented on at all.0 -
Hmmmm..........almost as if the governing body were turning a blind eye to any unpleasant results they may have discovered themselves.pedalpower wrote:still find it one of the more extraordinary bits of the whole Armstrong story that he was able to get away with these very suspicious blood results last year not really being commented on at all.0 -
Before everyone gets wrapped up in this and starts saying any increase in values is evidence of doping, please remember who else released their profile:
Then remember who was Garmin's doctor at the time, and then the recent allegations made against him.
I'd be very careful about jumping to accusations based on Basso's blood values.0 -
It's the haematocrit count that's more interesting (to me at least). Although this can be manipulated too :evil:0
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I still think one of the most stark pieces of evidence to show that this years Giro was 'clean' is the times recorded up the Plan De Corones. It's a good sign that things are getting better.0
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In 2003-06 they were all at it, it was part of the culture, Basso in 2006 knowing everyone else was at it, looks like he he joined in...hell even the 2006 'winner' was on it. Cycling shoots its self in the foot with all this.
This should be a positive thread, showing that Basso is now sucessful and clean...not going over the past, its a much cleaner sport 5 years on.
i really hope Ivan does well at Le Tour this year. I'm going to put a Fiver on him to win.0
