70s/80s Bicycles dangerous?

cooper.michael1

Over the last week of commuting in South Manchester i've seen the ambulance/police having to pick up 3 quite serious looking crashes involving cyclists on the main route heading out of the city centre towards Didsbury.

Now I know this is a student route, but all three of the accidents involved 80s road bikes (which suddenly seem popular on the back of the retro 80s cool trend), and since seeing these accidents i've kept an eye out for these type of bikes and to be honest, they look like utter death traps. Most are in a poor state of repair, but even those which have been cared for look like they are seriously lacking in terms of road worthyness (poor under power old brakes, with 'death' levers, steel rims which a useless in the wet etc...)

Does anyone on here ride on of these, and if so why? Do the police have the power to deem a bike not roadworthy?

Clever Pun

I ride a 60's bike when the weathers nice... dont blame the frame for hipsters

Generalising doesn't help

cooper.michael1

I'm not necessarily blaming the frame...but take for example on Friday, a car tried to right hook me, turning left in front of my path. With good v brakes and tyres, I managed to stop with about 50cm to spare, this is the scenario in which I could imagine on a bike with 30 year old brakes, i'd have been over the bonnet and on the floor. (not to mention, that many people riding these are so 'retro cool' they are using the original brake pads, cables and tyres)

chuckcork

Could be inexperienced riders out on bikes that only get an airing a few weeks each year, and who wouldn't know the difference between a modern road bike and a cr*p old one as they don't ride often enough for it to be an issue.

As for stopping though, not quite the same but I reckon in rain I take something like 3 times as long to stop, where I'd stop from a reasonable speed in 2 cars lengths it would take 5-6, which is a looooong way....unless that i just my having rubbish brake pads?

roger_merriman

the original brakes on the old roadie, while not great brakes had enough to lock/endo.

But I set them up, this may not be the case with the summer lemmings you see.

AndyManc

Any bike that isn't maintained will be s*** , are the bikes from the 70's + 80's more dangerous than the £89 specials from Asda that come with no safety check and poorly assembled ..... , no they aren't .

Age of bike isn't an issue.


The routes from South Manchester into the city centre are appalling, Kingsway is a definite no go, from Northenden-Wilmslow road- Rusholme has the worst cycle accident rate in the UK.

Manchester Council are aware of the issues but have failed to tackle them, perhaps it would be a better idea to badger them to improve safety for cyclists in South Manchester.

.

rolf_f

Didn't get killed riding 70s bikes in the 70s so probably won't now. Somewhat ridiculous to say that the well maintained ones look like 'utter death traps' - actually, I would expect that they look like old bikes.

I wonder how quickly the 45lb Pashleys take to stop.......

Robstar24

used to ride a 1982 steel colnago, might have been an old bike but it rode like an absolute dream and very safely, never had a better bike for descending

morstar

My Shimano 600 single pivot brakes from 1987 outperform the Sora dual pivot's (2005) on my commuter.

Before we get silly and compare Sora to DA it's irrelevant. That would be like comparing the brakes on a family car to a Ferrari. Sora is a perfectly adequate platform for urban riding.

There are probably so many more social considerations than technological ones that the brakes/bikes are almost irrelevant full stop.

Skippy2309

I am refubishing a Raleigh Flyer at the moment, as I needed a frame to build the GF's bike, I honestly did not like the look of the brakes.... so they came off, the old levers are staying but its new cables, brakes, pads, rims etc.

A lot of people are not going to, my father said to keep the old cables even tho they were split :roll:

AndyManc

Skippy2309 wrote:

I am refubishing a Raleigh Flyer at the moment, as I needed a frame to build the GF's bike, I honestly did not like the look of the brakes.... so they came off, the old levers are staying but its new cables, brakes, pads, rims etc.

A lot of people are not going to, my father said to keep the old cables even tho they were split :roll:

Yeah, but a lot of people will do that with bikes that are a couple of years old and have been rotting in a garden shed.

Age isn't an issue, maintenance is.

.

itsbruce

AndyManc wrote:

Age isn't an issue, maintenance is.

.

This is what I keep telling the gf.

shouldbeinbed

AndyManc wrote:

Any bike that isn't maintained will be s*** , are the bikes from the 70's + 80's more dangerous than the £89 specials from Asda that come with no safety check and poorly assembled ..... , no they aren't .

Age of bike isn't an issue.


The routes from South Manchester into the city centre are appalling, Kingsway is a definite no go, from Northenden-Wilmslow road- Rusholme has the worst cycle accident rate in the UK.

Manchester Council are aware of the issues but have failed to tackle them, perhaps it would be a better idea to badger them to improve safety for cyclists in South Manchester.

.

+1

but also badger the Uni's to put out don't cycle like and A**e warnings every September.

The make up of the roads don't help though. narrow heavily populated arterial routs with barely enough room to swing a cat across. A6 (longsight/levenshulme especially) and Wilmslow Road are awful and inadeuate for the populations they serve full stop. the lack of MCC/GMP protection for cyclists and the regular influx of lackadasical cycling numpties every September just adds to the problems.

Headhuunter

my dad has a whole fleet of bikes mostly from the 80s and they all run like absolute dreams. One of my commuting machines is an 80s bike kitted out mostly with campag bits. Bikes are not like cars, they don't have a definite shelf life. If well maintained they're fine for decades. I'd certainle prefer a decent 531 framed road bike from the 70s or 80s than a new bso from argos or asda

rolf_f

Headhuunter wrote:

Bikes are not like cars, they don't have a definite shelf life. If well maintained they're fine for decades.

Eh? I do believe you are talking cobblers there old chap! Have you not seen all those cars from all decades around at all? Personally, I haven't owned a car that was built after I graduated (over 20 years ago). In this respect, cars are exactly the same as bikes (although maybe not the crappy modern ones with all the complex rubbish built in).

It is harder with cars but bikes are relatively more over-engineered and most of the old bikes that are still with us probably haven't got many miles on them.

One thing I was a bit surprised to discover was that my mates old Peugeot Triathlon, circa 1990 - made with 531 but maintubes only, is barely heavier than another friends 2008 alloy Bianchi C2C :shock:

Headhuunter

Rolf F wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Bikes are not like cars, they don't have a definite shelf life. If well maintained they're fine for decades.

Eh? I do believe you are talking cobblers there old chap! Have you not seen all those cars from all decades around at all? Personally, I haven't owned a car that was built after I graduated (over 20 years ago). In this respect, cars are exactly the same as bikes (although maybe not the crappy modern ones with all the complex rubbish built in).

It is harder with cars but bikes are relatively more over-engineered and most of the old bikes that are still with us probably haven't got many miles on them.

One thing I was a bit surprised to discover was that my mates old Peugeot Triathlon, circa 1990 - made with 531 but maintubes only, is barely heavier than another friends 2008 alloy Bianchi C2C :shock:

What I was trying to say is that a bike is more likely to hold together and still be rideable after 20 years with limited maintanence, than a car. To keep a car running for 20 years, you really need to put a fair amount of effort in. Whether or not a car is a modern one with all the complex gizmos built in, it's still far more compex than a bike and has alot more to go wrong.

rolf_f

Headhuunter wrote:

What I was trying to say is that a bike is more likely to hold together and still be rideable after 20 years with limited maintanence, than a car. To keep a car running for 20 years, you really need to put a fair amount of effort in. Whether or not a car is a modern one with all the complex gizmos built in, it's still far more compex than a bike and has alot more to go wrong.

I see where you are coming from but a low mileage, well maintained car is just a piece of machinery like a low mileage, well maintained bike. I recently bought a 1985 Saab Turbo. Less than 60,000 miles on the clock and cheaper than my new bike. Still smells like new. Not a typical 25 year old car but most old bikes are more akin to my Saab in history (ie not heavily used) than a 250,000 mile repmobile.

Modern cars though, really are crap. I'd probably agree with you entirely about the more upmarket cars of today.

Re your sig: What is the latin for: Remember when life's path is steep, make sure you have a compact

Headhuunter

Rolf F wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

What I was trying to say is that a bike is more likely to hold together and still be rideable after 20 years with limited maintanence, than a car. To keep a car running for 20 years, you really need to put a fair amount of effort in. Whether or not a car is a modern one with all the complex gizmos built in, it's still far more compex than a bike and has alot more to go wrong.

I see where you are coming from but a low mileage, well maintained car is just a piece of machinery like a low mileage, well maintained bike. I recently bought a 1985 Saab Turbo. Less than 60,000 miles on the clock and cheaper than my new bike. Still smells like new. Not a typical 25 year old car but most old bikes are more akin to my Saab in history (ie not heavily used) than a 250,000 mile repmobile.

Modern cars though, really are crap. I'd probably agree with you entirely about the more upmarket cars of today.

Re your sig: What is the latin for: Remember when life's path is steep, make sure you have a compact

So that's why you've got a picture of the front of a Saab next to your name... I always wondered about that... I just wonder whether a heavily used, little maintained car would be as useable as a heavily used, litytle maintained bike from the same period....

rolf_f

Headhuunter wrote:

So that's why you've got a picture of the front of a Saab next to your name... I always wondered about that... I just wonder whether a heavily used, little maintained car would be as useable as a heavily used, litytle maintained bike from the same period....

Ahh, well now. If little maintained, I'd vote for the bike anyday! Cars mostly become unreliable because, as they depreciate, the owners maintain them less. Then they break down, the owner blames it on the age of the car rather than their own poor maintenance of it, and then they go and get a credit deal on a new BMW........

davmaggs

Old bikes aren't inherrently dangerous with simple tightening/replacing cables or brakepads.

You can't compare old cars with bikes really as one is a complex machine full of moving parts, electronics and requiring a range of skills and trades to maintain. Cars have gone through leaps and bounds and a 70s mechanic brought forward to today in a time machine wouldn't be able to repair many of the features of a moden car, wheras the fundamentals of bicycles remain fairly similar and a person with a few practical skills can do most tasks.

Headhuunter

davmaggs wrote:

Old bikes aren't inherrently dangerous with simple tightening/replacing cables or brakepads.

You can't compare old cars with bikes really as one is a complex machine full of moving parts, electronics and requiring a range of skills and trades to maintain. Cars have gone through leaps and bounds and a 70s mechanic brought forward to today in a time machine wouldn't be able to repair many of the features of a moden car, wheras the fundamentals of bicycles remain fairly similar and a person with a few practical skills can do most tasks.

Exactly. the double triangle bike must be one of the simplest and most efficient machines known to man and much as manufacturers tinker with designs and materials, it doesn't change much and with a quick tightening of a few bolts and a bit of lubricant you can get a bike from the 70s running, perhaps not enormously efficiently, but it'll run fine. As someone stated earlier, a decent reynolds 531 steel frame from the 70s or 80s is a match in terms of weight to a modern aluminium job

Clarion

My 1980 531c Woodrup is lighter than my son's aluminium road bike.

My main bike is coming up for 15 years old, and my other bikes are thirty, forty and sixty years old. All are 531 of some kind, and structurally sound.

The only ones with brakes I'm not happy with are the 1951 Rudge with old sidepulls, and the 1971 Super Galaxy, which has centrepulls. The first I don't use for utility purposes, and the second I will upgrade to dual pivots.

My 1981 Carlton fixed has Weinmann sidepulls which took some setting up, but are excellent now. My Woodrup has Shimano 105 sidepulls from the 80s. My Orbit has cantilevers, which are pretty much the best brakes anyway for a combination of modulation and grip.

There is nothing inherently unsafe in old bikes, so long as they are properly maintained. I see loads of bikes which are barely a couple of years old, which I would never even get on.

Headhuunter

Anyone seen this site?
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/index.html

Headhuunter

Clarion wrote:

My 1980 531c Woodrup is lighter than my son's aluminium road bike.

My main bike is coming up for 15 years old, and my other bikes are thirty, forty and sixty years old. All are 531 of some kind, and structurally sound.

The only ones with brakes I'm not happy with are the 1951 Rudge with old sidepulls, and the 1971 Super Galaxy, which has centrepulls. The first I don't use for utility purposes, and the second I will upgrade to dual pivots.

My 1981 Carlton fixed has Weinmann sidepulls which took some setting up, but are excellent now. My Woodrup has Shimano 105 sidepulls from the 80s. My Orbit has cantilevers, which are pretty much the best brakes anyway for a combination of modulation and grip.

There is nothing inherently unsafe in old bikes, so long as they are properly maintained. I see loads of bikes which are barely a couple of years old, which I would never even get on.

Yeah I've just bought a brand new Ribble, equippped with full Tiagra kit, with aluminium frame and although I haven't actually weighed it, it's no lighter than my 531 bike which is about 20 years old

thrope

I would never go down Oxford/Wilmslow Road through Rusholme... its an absolute nightmare.

Try Yew Tree Road down the side to Withington - a few traffic lights but never have any problems, busses are nicer etc.

The Rookie

Certainly there is nothing inherently dangerous about an older bike, its all about the bike and the maintenance its had, although I do agree that with steel rims they do take that bit more stopping in the wet, and for the first wheel rotation there is practically no braking, however that's all about increasing the space around you to compensate.

Simon

secretsam

I think most people are making the point on here about maintenance versus age...if these are dappy students riding "y,know, like, retro-cool 80s, y'know?!?!?!?" machines, then there may be issues with, like, genuine 80s chrome steel rims. I've got an 80s bike (the fabulously ferrous oxided 531) and have upgraded the brakes to modern cheap dual pivots from the original Weinmann C/Ps, which were frankly garbage. .

It may be the rims - I recall that in Denmark they were banned, as the plating made the surface very smooth and braking therefore poorer.

Chewy Cheeks

Just been given an 80's Raliegh Sprint which I am cleaning up with the aim of turning into a single speed/ fixed.

The cables will be replaced and everything safety wise upgraded,

The rim's are chrome and are cleaning up OK, I think by the sounds of things these may need to go or at least be de-chromed as well.

My eldest is planning to cut about on it when it's finished - the risk of him and to him
on chrome rims makes me worry.

What would you all do about these rims?

Clarion

It is worth upgrading to alloy rims, but, if you're going from 27" to 700c, you may need to change your brakes to deep drops.