Contador, why dont I like him?
Comments
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According to French daily Le Monde, he refused then to undergo a DNA test that would have judged whether or not he had any link to the blood bags that were found in the investigation.
I know that Cadel has done a bit this year, I meant that it would be good if his new found capacity to win a few things actually showed up in the Tour. And as for is he clean, well, who knows, is anyone ?
Its the UCI that is majorly (to use a Sean Kellyism) at fault, what a pile of massive tossers they must be. I mean they have had Valv.Piti winning bike races for 2 years and still it took someone else to get rid of him for them. They are spineless, gutless and useless.
And who says that Basso winning this year can be trusted ? And as for Cycling Weekly and their 6th page.....BASSO, A VICTORY TO BELIEVE IN...........
Really ? HTF does someone lose 12 minutes one day and come back and clean up as soon as the road tilts up ? I mean Evans was breathing out of his arse and Basso looked as though he was going up a small flight of stairs. Believe in that ? I think not.
But at the end of the day, I have decided that since you will never know who is clean and who is not, forget all of it and enjoy the racing. After all it was a great Giro this year.0 -
roadiesean wrote:And who says that Basso winning this year can be trusted ? And as for Cycling Weekly and their 6th page.....BASSO, A VICTORY TO BELIEVE IN...........
Really ? HTF does someone lose 12 minutes one day and come back and clean up as soon as the road tilts up ? I mean Evans was breathing out of his ars* and Basso looked as though he was going up a small flight of stairs. Believe in that ? I think not.
But at the end of the day, I have decided that since you will never know who is clean and who is not, forget all of it and enjoy the racing. After all it was a great Giro this year.
Wha...? You make it sound as if Basso was the only person who lost 12 minutes that day. It was a tactical screw up, and not just by Liquigas. Evans, Vino, Scarponi, Garzelli were all in that group too.
Someone has to be the best climber in every race. I don't see what Basso did as extraordinary or unbelievable. In fact, he was looking a little ropey on the final day when Evans and Scarponi attacked (too late, but still...)0 -
its hard to know, but was Contador just mean by attacking Kloeden that day or perhaps he felt Kloeden may yet come up and threaten him on GC hence wipe him out 5km from the top to be sure. I reckon AC is quite a gentleman...but I personally don't believe his performances and he's had some lousy people influencing him down the years0
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I'm not saying that Basso was the only person to lose 12 mins, but he was the only person to win by 2.37 over any other person caught in the break.
I'm really commenting about the fact that everyone in the media and UCI seem to be saying that he is without any shadow of doubt clean, when he clearly was the class of the field by a considerable margin, granted not 9 minutes worth like the last time he "won"
I am just bored by all the cheats, and now they are back and winning again, how can we say we have a clean sport to "believe" in ?
But this is about Contador and my initial point is why does Puerto and Contador never get mentioned any more ? 61kg super time triallists, they beggar belief IMO.0 -
glauciaregina9 wrote:pedro118118 wrote:ShinyHelmut wrote:I like him cos he beats Armstrong, why would anyone need any more reason than that?
Well, can beat a man 10 or 11 years older than himself, no longer at his peak... does that really count ??
I think Contador's media personality is a bit dull, but there's no doubting the talent
Note to self, be careful what you post. People just might take you seriously
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Dave_1 wrote:its hard to know, but was Contador just mean by attacking Kloeden that day or perhaps he felt Kloeden may yet come up and threaten him on GC hence wipe him out 5km from the top to be sure. I reckon AC is quite a gentleman...but I personally don't believe his performances and he's had some lousy people influencing him down the years
It was those 2 fellas from luxembourg he was attacking. He may or may not have cared whether Kloden was able to keep up but it certainly wasn't an attack designed to distance him.
You could tell that by the way he slowed up when he noticed Kloden had been dropped. In my view he should have kept going and forgotten about Kloden. If Armstrong hadn't been in the team he would have been able to attack whenever he liked without criticism and nobody would've batted an eyelid.
As for believing in Contador, there is a short list of riders I believe in and the list often changes quickly. Contador is a very classy rider but he has never been on that list.
Contrary to what some have said, he didn't offer up his DNA. When asked at the briefing in Paris, he said he wouldn't. After the PR backlash he said he would submit it if asked for it (knowing that he wasn't going to be asked for it).
I'm not saying he's doping, I just don't have any faith in him being clean.Scottish and British...and a bit French0 -
I agree that there is reason to be suspicious about AC's past. That said, one option in the Puerto documents was "nothing", and wasn't his first pro win a tt?
What I would really like to see is him joining a team with a real committment to anti-doping. Now that Wiggins is with Sky, there'd be room for him at Garmin, and maybe Columbia could find room for him. But last year, the talk was of going to Caisse d'Epargne and he ended up staying with Astana. That may be cultural. The Spanish just don't seem to get why doping is such a big issue for some other countries, and if he were caught and protested his innocence, he'd still get the backing of a lot of people in Spain (esp. journalists and the cycling establishment). If he joined Garmin or Columbia, he could be a huge star, but he doesn't seem bothered by not having that.
He's a great rider, not at all boring, but his choice of next team will tell us alot. Even if he's personally clean, unless he goes with someone like Garmin or Columbia suspicions will remain.0 -
Are there any pro riders out there who are winning races that don't dope(yet)?
How many races are you allowed to win before it's decided that you've doped?
7 TDF's seems to be the absolute maximum TDF's that you can win before the whole world implodes. So how does AC rank in this scoring system? Will he be allowed to win another GT, and if he does will it be THE END of his cleanliness and purity or can he win one or two more GT's before the world revolts against him??? I only ask because there seems to some sort of numbering system, i.e. so many wins and you're dirty, among people out there. 0 -
Greg Lemond won 3 GTs and 2 World Championships and is generally regarded as clean*.
Bjarne Riis won won GT and by his own admission was dirty as hell.
AC was implicated in Puerto before he even took part in a GT.
Numbers mean nowt.
*By his peers, not just forum geeks.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
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Greg LeMond was clean, but he was the greatest, both physically and character-wise.
A VO2 max of 92.5 explains alot.
Interesting to look back and think how many careers that ended early/fizzled out/didn't fullfill potential in the early to mid 90's.0 -
redddraggon wrote:Timoid. wrote:AC was implicated in Puerto before he even took part in a GT.
I thought Puerto was 2006? AC rode the 2005 TdF
True. I backed the b*gger on the one time he didn't win the TdF. Should have rememebered.
Lets change my point to he was implicated before he properly contested the Tour.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
IMHO he is a cheat that seems to have been forgotten about.
But then there is a lot of that going on !
Lets think, Basso, back in the fold, Scarponi, Vinokourov, Garzelli (now thats a top ten in the Giro you can believe in), Ricco is back but Rasmussen (who never even failed a test) can't get a ticket in a raffle. Whats that all about ?
Its getting to look a bit ridiculous up there in the stratosphere of pro cycling.
This is what I mean by finding myself liking guys like Vinoukarov who is a proven drugs cheat. At the end of the day we can argue about doping until we are blue in the face but
a lot of top riders have been implicated. Therefore I have taken the decision to simply root for the guy who entertains the most on, and off the road. Dont get carried away with the Vinoukarov stuff tho, I dont love him, I'm just suprised at how I started to give him some respect after the giro. Especially the diabolical off road stage (stage 6?) I dont care if you are on drugs or not, you have to have it upstairs mentally in order to get yourself throught that. Evans too, big respect.
No, Vinoukarov is not entertaining off the road0 -
Dgh wrote:Greg LeMond was clean, but he was the greatest, both physically and character-wise.
A VO2 max of 92.5 explains alot.
Interesting to look back and think how many careers that ended early/fizzled out/didn't fullfill potential in the early to mid 90's.
I'm a huge fan, but messrs Coppi, Anquetil, Merckx and Hinault may have something to say about that.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
dennisn wrote:Are there any pro riders out there who are winning races that don't dope(yet)?
How many races are you allowed to win before it's decided that you've doped?
7 TDF's seems to be the absolute maximum TDF's that you can win before the whole world implodes. So how does AC rank in this scoring system? Will he be allowed to win another GT, and if he does will it be THE END of his cleanliness and purity or can he win one or two more GT's before the world revolts against him??? I only ask because there seems to some sort of numbering system, i.e. so many wins and you're dirty, among people out there.
Was there a lot of suspicion surrounding Indurain after all his Tour wins. I mean, more than you would expect?0 -
Timoid. wrote:Dgh wrote:Greg LeMond was clean, but he was the greatest, both physically and character-wise.
A VO2 max of 92.5 explains alot.
Interesting to look back and think how many careers that ended early/fizzled out/didn't fullfill potential in the early to mid 90's.
I'm a huge fan, but messrs Coppi, Anquetil, Merckx and Hinault may have something to say about that.
Coppi - great rider, what would his palares have been but for the war, and did it against another all-time great (Bartali), but also an enthusiastic doper. Anquetil, an enthusiastic doper. Merckx, the greatest palmares, but did test positive, and wasn't he the one who fixed up Armstrong and Ferrari? Hinault, great rider, great character, never failed a test, but never won a mountain-top finish in his tour wins (I'm not forgettiing 86, he didn't win then) and Fignon toasted him in 84. At their peak, Greg gets it.
You'll find riders with a better Palmares than Greg - I'd have had Binda on your list too - but if the Almighty got the greatest riders, gave them all good teams and good drug tests, I suspect Greg would come out the winner.
And character-wise, he's a committed anti-doper.0 -
sampras38 wrote:dennisn wrote:Are there any pro riders out there who are winning races that don't dope(yet)?
How many races are you allowed to win before it's decided that you've doped?
7 TDF's seems to be the absolute maximum TDF's that you can win before the whole world implodes. So how does AC rank in this scoring system? Will he be allowed to win another GT, and if he does will it be THE END of his cleanliness and purity or can he win one or two more GT's before the world revolts against him??? I only ask because there seems to some sort of numbering system, i.e. so many wins and you're dirty, among people out there.
Was there a lot of suspicion surrounding Indurain after all his Tour wins. I mean, more than you would expect?
The lack of suspicion around Indurain is remarkable. He was on a team that had the Delgado-scandal in 1988. Although he didn't come spectacularly from nowhere like Chiapucci, he wasn't dominating events at 22, and he went on to dominate one of the dirtiest eras in cycling.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Timoid. wrote:
I'm a huge fan, but messrs Coppi, Anquetil, Merckx and Hinault may have something to say about that.
I think Hinaults VO2Max was measured at 88. So Greg beats him there
If a straight measurement of VO2 Max gave you the best physical cylcing specimen then you'd be right. But it ain't. Hinault was made of some exceptional stuff.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
its a pretty sad state when as soon as someone does well in cycling the mention
of doping comes up, id like to say i would be suprised if contador was found out
but sadly i cant :roll:0 -
Dgh wrote:Timoid. wrote:Dgh wrote:Greg LeMond was clean, but he was the greatest, both physically and character-wise.
A VO2 max of 92.5 explains alot.
Interesting to look back and think how many careers that ended early/fizzled out/didn't fullfill potential in the early to mid 90's.
I'm a huge fan, but messrs Coppi, Anquetil, Merckx and Hinault may have something to say about that.
Coppi - great rider, what would his palares have been but for the war, and did it against another all-time great (Bartali), but also an enthusiastic doper. Anquetil, an enthusiastic doper. Merckx, the greatest palmares, but did test positive, and wasn't he the one who fixed up Armstrong and Ferrari? Hinault, great rider, great character, never failed a test, but never won a mountain-top finish in his tour wins (I'm not forgettiing 86, he didn't win then) and Fignon toasted him in 84. At their peak, Greg gets it.
You'll find riders with a better Palmares than Greg - I'd have had Binda on your list too - but if the Almighty got the greatest riders, gave them all good teams and good drug tests, I suspect Greg would come out the winner.
And character-wise, he's a committed anti-doper.
Note I put the word physically in bold. Never said anything about their attitude to disco biscuits.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Timoid. wrote:Dgh wrote:Timoid. wrote:Dgh wrote:Greg LeMond was clean, but he was the greatest, both physically and character-wise.
A VO2 max of 92.5 explains alot.
Interesting to look back and think how many careers that ended early/fizzled out/didn't fullfill potential in the early to mid 90's.
I'm a huge fan, but messrs Coppi, Anquetil, Merckx and Hinault may have something to say about that.
Coppi - great rider, what would his palares have been but for the war, and did it against another all-time great (Bartali), but also an enthusiastic doper. Anquetil, an enthusiastic doper. Merckx, the greatest palmares, but did test positive, and wasn't he the one who fixed up Armstrong and Ferrari? Hinault, great rider, great character, never failed a test, but never won a mountain-top finish in his tour wins (I'm not forgettiing 86, he didn't win then) and Fignon toasted him in 84. At their peak, Greg gets it.
You'll find riders with a better Palmares than Greg - I'd have had Binda on your list too - but if the Almighty got the greatest riders, gave them all good teams and good drug tests, I suspect Greg would come out the winner.
And character-wise, he's a committed anti-doper.
Note I put the word physically in bold. Never said anything about their attitude to disco biscuits.
I think you mean that, palmares-wise, they'd have something to say. On pure physicality, hard to argue with Greg. Unless Bjorn Dhaelie bought a bike 0 -
Dgh wrote:I think you mean that, palmares-wise, they'd have something to say. On pure physicality, hard to argue with Greg. Unless Bjorn Dhaelie bought a bike
Care to enlighten me on Coppi, Anqueti; and Merckx stats? I'm pretty sure they had monstrous VO2, lactic acid thresholds, power to weight ratios and the rest.
Dhaelie would suck as a cyclist. Might have been an excellent TTer, but couldn't imagine him on the Ventoux.hhIt's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
roadiesean wrote:.
Really ? HTF does someone lose 12 minutes one day and come back and clean up as soon as the road tilts up ? I mean Evans was breathing out of his ars* and Basso looked as though he was going up a small flight of stairs. Believe in that ? I think not.
Floyd did..
Oh.. nevermind :oops:0 -
avoidingmyphd wrote:I agree, but I take some heart from the fact that the programme, as evidenced in your picture, explicitly provided that one of two options for Contador's share of the dope was "nothing".
This.
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i would normally concur with you re the underdogs but i draw the line at vinokourov,the scum of the sport.adukeofkent wrote:He is amazing, I will give you that. Why dont I like him then?
I think there is something about the underdog, sometimes even the 'baddies' that I find more appealing. I find myself admiring Evans and Vinoukarov (baddy who will be supporting Contador) more after the giro.
Discuss
always had a soft spot for AC since i backed him at 36/1 for the 2007 tour0 -
So in a nutsell, in answer to the original question, "Contador - why don't I like him" is there are unanswered questions regarding past/present doping allegations and therefore a fair proportion of forum readers simply don't beleive in him.0
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I have no strong feelings either way on AC, although I bloody hate those TV adverts..;-)0
