Cycling nutrition

lost_in_thought

So, as anyone who came to the SCR Wales trip last year will attest, I am not very good at feeding myself for cycling.

This reared its ugly head again over the past few days, so I'm fishing for advice/experience.

The problems are as follows:

1. I'm don't tend to eat in the mornings until about 10am at the earliest.
2. Once I've been cycling for a little while, say an hour, I really don't feel like eating
3. When I'm hot, I don't feel like eating
4. When I'm hot, and have been cycling for a while, and haven't had any breakfast yet, my stomach seems to shrink, making me less likely to feel hungry and making it harder for me to eat a decent quantity of food.
5. I find that liquid fills me up and stops me feeling hungry.

When all or any of the above are the case, I definitely don't feel like eating heavy, carby things, ie the exact things I need to eat. I desire a mango, or a salad.

Energy drinks/shots make me feel increasingly nauseous as they're often sweet.

I really struggle to eat when I don't feel like it.

Help!

ndru

You don't have to eat carbs to cycle. I know this is the type of food most people would suggest, and I know that I am opening a pandora box, but your body is perfectly capable of producing glucose from protein that you're digesting. Also if you go for zero carbs diet - your body will start using fat as a substitute. This is because carbs are very easy for our bodies to use as fuel - so if our body has any carbs to use it can't be bothered processing anything else for energy.
How about you try eating some pecans or cashews - a 150g bag will provide you with around 1000kcal (mostly from fat and proteins), they are small in volume, don't go off and you can eat them straight from the bag. You can also try cheese (high calories again, small in volume, no carbs). You could also drink milk if liquids are your thing.
If I were you I would check out bodybuilding forums - these guys know a lot about nutrition and can definitely give you more ideas.

tailwindhome

lost_in_thought wrote:

1. I'm don't tend to eat in the mornings until about 10am at the earliest.
2. Once I've been cycling for a little while, say an hour, I really don't feel like eating
3. When I'm hot, I don't feel like eating
4. When I'm hot, and have been cycling for a while, and haven't had any breakfast yet, my stomach seems to shrink, making me less likely to feel hungry and making it harder for me to eat a decent quantity of food.
5. I find that liquid fills me up and stops me feeling hungry.

When all or any of the above are the case, I definitely don't feel like eating heavy, carby things, ie the exact things I need to eat. I desire a mango, or a salad.

Energy drinks/shots make me feel increasingly nauseous as they're often sweet.

I really struggle to eat when I don't feel like it.

As I'm sure you recognise you need to eat anyway even if you don't feel like it.

Personally I hate eating before a ride. I always like a gap of a least 2 hours otherwise I feel uncomfortable.

I have got round this by relying on the old faithful - bananas for food and heavily diluted apple juice for liquids. Sweet without being cloying and bananas come in the own wrappers.

Try eating small amounts

Try eating as soon as your on the bike and settled into a ride rather than waiting

jeepie

How about making a batch of breakfast bars? I tried something similar as I like you find a lot of the nutrition for sport way too sweet. I nicked this off the runners world website where I got the original recipe from....

Then you can eat them whever you fancy and take with you on bike rides too....You can also adjust the sweetness to taste.

Breakfast Bars
Whip up a stock of homemade energy bars and store in a Tupperware for a stock of quick on-the-run breakfasts that'll fuel your running [edit cycling!] With oats, muesli and dried fruit, you'll get a fast-acting sweet hit without the refined sugar. Combine 175g oats with 85g muesli in a bowl. Warm 3 tbsp of honey in a small saucepan until it becomes runny, then add it to the oat mix. Stir in 150g dried fruit (raisins, dates, apricots, figs, apple, pineapple etc), two egg whites and 175ml apple juice. Press the mixture into a lightly oiled 18x28cm baking tin. Bake at 180ºC for 20-25 minutes until golden. Allow to cool slightly, then cut into bars.

Another thing I love to take with me when cycling are home made scotch eggs (but these sound like they'd not be suitable). Perhaps the reason that you don't feel hungry is you are massively dehydrated? If you drank more do you think you could eat more? So start drinking earlier and tip water over your head to keep cool....

redvee

Little and often is the way to eat/drink when out on a ride, thought I don't really practice this myself.

jonginge

For me, fueling for long rides is a necessary evil. I, too, get fed up of bars and too-sweet drinks but have them anyway. Some drinks are worse than others, though.

I go for the little, often and early method. For example, on the 100m blackrat sportive the other week I has started to eat after only ~30minutes of riding. Not a whole bar but something. I still felt pretty good at the end. Lit, you use alarms to remind you to drink, so, you could do somethingg similar for food

If you're getting fed up of bars you could try:
http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2008/07 ... rice-cakes

pastryboy

You can drink oats and ground almonds which will give you plenty of calories without being sweet.

Something really useful that most people don't know about it coconut oil. It's a type of fat that's very efficient for energy use (and has a lot of health benefits). It tastes quite nice (mild coconut flavour) and you can eat it from the tub or add it to other things.

Lilke someone above said you don't have to go all out on heavy carb meals. Fat is a concentrated energy source so eating small amounts of something you can stomach but with a nice glug of olive oil (or similar) will bump calories up a lot. If you eat bread then start making your own (it's easy) and add plenty of seeds to the dough to up the calories.

unixnerd

You really DO need to have something an hour or two before a big pedal.

During a ride you can't go wrong with bananas :-)

Bassjunkieuk

Over the past few months as I've been paying a bit more attention to my food I've actually found that a combination of pasta and chicken has a good effect on the following days riding :-)

Porridge for breakfast before a ride is now my usual routine and I've been experimenting with various fueling options during the ride.

On this mornings ride out to Woking and back (approx 26 miles each way) I had 2*750mil bottles of strong orange squash and a choc chip clif bar.
I was making a concerted effort to drink little and often and didn't suffer any cramps as I have before on some longer rides, especially with a similar pace that I was doing this morning! I almost finished the first bottle by the time I arrived in Woking and then had the Clif bar before setting off for home.

All I can say is that the Clif bar agreed with me as I was bl00dy motoring and couldn't believe how good I was feeling! The route I used was mainly A-roads for the first 14 miles (heading back) so I could keep up a decent pace.

I do seem to recall from Wales tho that you brought along some rather nice brownies (or where they both from Linsen?) I'm sure some of those would do quite good as an alternative to the commercially brought energy bars - I do keep meaning to try and make my own but I'm rather lazy!

stuaff

Oh yes, we've been here before....if I can learn how to get over cattle grids without ending up... (well, you know...), you can get the hang of eating properly. As others have said, little and often with food and drink. That way you should meet your hydration & fuelling needs without feeling bloated. ndru's suggestions of milk and cheese are out as I recall, but you really need a bit of fat & a bit of protein pre (& post- recovery's very important) ride & plenty of carbs, both pre and during. Find something palatable- you might end up having a bowl of pasta for breakfast, for example, but that would be a very good start. As for drinks, I've found I prefer the milder powders (Zipvit was too watery, but Bikefood was excellent & I've bought a tub of Torq), you might feel the same. A simple orange juice/water mix with a pinch of salt will also give you the necessary energy, hydration & electrolytes. Little and often again should prevent any bloatedness, and you need to keep those fluids topped up, you'll sweat whether you drink or not, and dehydration ain't clever (tried it myself...never again).
Remember: You like going fast. When cycling fast, eating & drinking more (of the right things of course)= going faster. This is good!

stuaff

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

Over the past few months as I've been paying a bit more attention to my food I've actually found that a combination of pasta and chicken has a good effect on the following days riding :-)

Porridge for breakfast before a ride is now my usual routine and I've been experimenting with various fueling options during the ride.

On this mornings ride out to Woking and back (approx 26 miles each way) I had 2*750mil bottles of strong orange squash and a choc chip clif bar.
I was making a concerted effort to drink little and often and didn't suffer any cramps as I have before on some longer rides, especially with a similar pace that I was doing this morning! I almost finished the first bottle by the time I arrived in Woking and then had the Clif bar before setting off for home.

All I can say is that the Clif bar agreed with me as I was bl00dy motoring and couldn't believe how good I was feeling! The route I used was mainly A-roads for the first 14 miles (heading back) so I could keep up a decent pace.

I do seem to recall from Wales tho that you brought along some rather nice brownies (or where they both from Linsen?) I'm sure some of those would do quite good as an alternative to the commercially brought energy bars - I do keep meaning to try and make my own but I'm rather lazy!

Oh yes, the brownies....

Runoutofgears

Am I the only one that has an irresistible urge to eat pork pie during a long ride? :shock:
Not sure that I would recommend it mind.

Bananas and flap jacks are also on my mid ride diet.

gabriel959

You really need to eat well before a ride.

Porridge is best (according to the experts) but if you can't face them, cereal would do. At worst even a couple of slices of toast would be better than nothing.

The best way to keep up with the drinking is to do it once every 15 minutes, just a little bit. And a couple of bites of something which contains some carbs every half an hour. Or if you prefer a whole bar or portion every hour but I prefer the little and often way. The best carb drink you can have is Torq Natural IMO as it doesn't taste of anything. You will still need electrolytes for hot days or even normal days. You can either do it by using Nuun or by having some High 5 Isogels. If you are trying to avoid sugar, I would go for the Nuun, it doesn't taste amazing but at least it hasn't got sugar.

I never bonk these days, my legs might be tired but my nutrition is always good.

And believe me, no one wants another bite of that sweet carb bar after 4 hours!!!!

To finish it off I would recommend a For Goodness Shakes recovery drink after the ride, they are at least palatable.

outofbreath2

Are you losing weight?

If you are not, maybe you're not the poor eater that you think you are. A food diary is helpful.

The body is indeed quite capable of making glucose from protein and fat but it's not it's preferred method and is diverting nutrients from other functions by sustaining the body's primary need - producing energy. Also, the brain's primary source of food is glucose, so if you can feed that via the easiest route (carbs) so much the better. That said, it's doubtful you're about to keel over from a ketotic coma. You don't need to overdo carbs, just balance them.

If liquids fill you up, try an enriched drink like Complan (as a snack, not a meal repalcement), or make a dairy based (or dairy substitute with mineral enrichment) fruit smoothie..

spasypaddy

LiT have a look at this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnitine
one of my mates swears by it when on a low carb diet.

rf6

Porridge or granola or similar before.

Bananas, brownies and fig rolls during.

Beer and curry after, (after all you've earnt it!) :roll:

If I'm doing a few days in a row I use SIS Nocte drinkk before bed.

And I am definitely going to be giving the scotch eggs and pork pies a go. Possibly on the same ride.

rjsterry

I seem to have the exact opposite approach to breakfast to you, so not sure how much use my advice might be. I seem to be able to eat a large breakfast then jump on the bike 10-15 minutes later. I can't pull the same trick at lunchtime for some reason. Having said this, I have had to up my breakfast intake since I've moved further out of London, so I can only suggest that it's a case of getting used to it - i.e. getting in to the habit of eating before riding, then gradually increasing the quantities.

In terms of ingredients, I'm a weetabix (with plenty of milk) or porridge fan, with a handfull of dried fruit to make it more interesting, followed by 2 or 3 thick slices of granary toast with jam or honey (or occasionally marmite), and some orange juice to wash it down. I've just sort of arrived at this by accident, but it does seem to have a mix of all the bits that you need. Someone with more dietary knowledge would be able to analyse it in more detail.

Jay dubbleU

Typical pre ride start this morning - Weetabix with yoghurt and a banana - I mix my own drink - grapejuice (not reconstituted) + water 50/50 + pince of salt - not too sweet and contains slow release fructose sugars

outofbreath2

rjsterry wrote:

I seem to have the exact opposite approach to breakfast to you, so not sure how much use my advice might be. I seem to be able to eat a large breakfast then jump on the bike 10-15 minutes later. I can't pull the same trick at lunchtime for some reason. Having said this, I have had to up my breakfast intake since I've moved further out of London, so I can only suggest that it's a case of getting used to it - i.e. getting in to the habit of eating before riding, then gradually increasing the quantities.

In terms of ingredients, I'm a weetabix (with plenty of milk) or porridge fan, with a handfull of dried fruit to make it more interesting, followed by 2 or 3 thick slices of granary toast with jam or honey (or occasionally marmite), and some orange juice to wash it down. I've just sort of arrived at this by accident, but it does seem to have a mix of all the bits that you need. Someone with more dietary knowledge would be able to analyse it in more detail.

You might want to try sprinkling a few nuts on to bump up the protein. Sounds good though. Couple of chopped brazils maybe.

rjsterry

I've been thinking that would be a good idea. Will add a bit of crunch as well.

davis

That sounds pretty similar to me.
It took me years (yup) to get used to eating "properly", especially in the mornings. I found I could stomach it (see what I did there) by getting up earlier, and simply *forcing* myself to eat. It's porridge normally, and I have to make it very milky. I usually manage to throw half a banana and some seed/nut type things in there too.

I now basically have to get up *every* *day* at a consistently early hour. If you're anything like me you'll be dragging yourself from one cup of coffee to the next for a while. This is probably bad, but it's the only way I can function in the mornings.

As for on the bike, then it's the same as everyone else I'm afraid. Little and often, and just keep eating. It's not always nice, but it does work. Diluted apple juice seems to work for drinking.

lost_in_thought

Thanks peeps. To clarify, I'm not on a low carb diet, and the eating is not a problem unless I'm trying to fuel myself for long cycles. I am losing weight, yes, but in a healthy, slow, managed way, not by accident, and I don't know what a ketotic coma is, but I don't seem to be in one!

The breakfast thang is probably the biggest issue - I really dislike dairy, milk even in very small quantities makes me feel rather unwell, so cereal is out, porridge is out. Toast, I've learned, is not great, but it is better than nothing. Pasta, although great, is hard to buy at breakfast! Maybe beans on toast? Are beans good?

Eating as soon as I get on the bike sounds like a good idea, and yeah, eating when the buzzer sounds to remind me to drink is also a cunning plan (it goes off every 15 minutes). Maybe that'll do the trick, but what to eat? I do like summer fruit mule bars... but only one or two of the little ones.

Pork pies and scotch eggs are no good I'm afraid, I don't like either (god I sound like such a fussy eater) any other suggestions for savoury foods?

Bananas are a good suggestion, although I don't really like them and have to wash them down with coffee. And I'm not sure I could peel one while cycling! Trouble is, I don't like stopping...

tailwindhome

lost_in_thought wrote:

Are beans good?

They are good for the heart....

suzyb

At last someone else with similar dislikes I don't have quite the dislike of milk as you so I can eat cereal though.

I do like your idea of a buzzer to tell you when to eat/drink. I probably don't drink enough and boinked on my last long run.

lost_in_thought

TailWindHome wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Are beans good?

They are good for the heart....

Jet propulsion...

outofbreath2

Beans on toast is brilliant. A bit of marmite on the toast will give lots of B vits which are vital in getting energy out of the food. I bet you don't like Mamite.
Have you cosidered dairy alternatives: nut milk or oat milk - I would suggest soya but I can't stand the stuff.

Ketones are formed when the brain is getting it's glucose from the break down of fats because there aren't enough carbs, e.g. Atkins diet theoretically. When the breakdown substances get out of kilter it all goes wrong.

Glad to hear the weight loss is intentional though - it still sounds as though you've got overall balance right in that case.

lost_in_thought

outofbreath2 wrote:

Beans on toast is brilliant. A bit of marmite on the toast will give lots of B vits which are vital in getting energy out of the food. I bet you don't like Mamite.
Have you cosidered dairy alternatives: nut milk or oat milk - I would suggest soya but I can't stand the stuff.

Ketones are formed when the brain is getting it's glucose from the break down of fats because there aren't enough carbs, e.g. Atkins diet theoretically. When the breakdown substances get out of kilter it all goes wrong.

Glad to hear the weight loss is intentional though - it still sounds as though you've got overall balance right in that case.

Actually I do like marmite! I prefer vegemite, it's not as salty, but marmite is fine. And toast with marmite + beans is something places will have at breakfast! Hurrah! See, when I'm touring I don't tend to carry food, and certainly not a toaster!

I've tried Alpro, didn't like it, it didn't make me feel sick but it left a really icky aftertaste/aftertexture. That has been my only foray into milk substitutes! It's always made me feel sick (well, since I can remember), so I've never really missed it. I wasn't aware of nut milk or oat milk though, might be worth a go, if only to make recovery shakes with.

outofbreath2

Bingo.

I'll leave you alone soon, but just to add to look for sustitute milks that are enriched, i.e. have calcium, vitamin D added at least. Otherwise you'll only be drinking, e.g oats and water.

Jay dubbleU

Fruit is good in the morning - pick fruit you really like - strawberries, banana, grapes, then it feels like a treat - black coffee - although remember coffee is a diuretic so not too much - carry raisins, mixed fruit on the bike - don't need peeling so just carry loose in a pocket - don't make the mistake I made today and carry chocolate raisins - you end up with raisins floating in liquid chocolate

redvee

lost_in_thought wrote:

I really dislike dairy, milk even in very small quantities makes me feel rather unwell

Lactose intolerance? Try some Cravendale milk and see how that makes you feel. A girl in work has a lactose intolerance and can handle Cravendale milk

lost_in_thought wrote:

And I'm not sure I could peel one while cycling! Trouble is, I don't like stopping...

Try one of these Not sure if pre-peeled fit though.

itsbruce

Beans on toast is a good match for you; plenty of protein and other goodness in the beans and carbs from the toast. I'd also second the suggestion about nuts, which are calorifically dense.