I'm with Izzard

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Comments

  • Porgy
    Porgy Posts: 4,525
    Cressers wrote:
    Howe far would Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, and Hitler have got if the populations had had the means to defend themselves?

    Hitler was elected. Twice.
  • adodsk
    adodsk Posts: 35
    guns? knives? doesn't matter. a scumbag was recently jailed in Dublin for stabbing two lads to death with a screwdriver.... close down B&Q immediately!!!........
  • ALaPlage
    ALaPlage Posts: 732
    adodsk wrote:
    guns? knives? doesn't matter. a scumbag was recently jailed in Dublin for stabbing two lads to death with a screwdriver.... close down B&Q immediately!!!........

    A fine point well made.
    Trek Madone 5.9
    Kinesis Crosslight T4
  • 1footedninja
    1footedninja Posts: 269
    When its on our own doorstep - 'something must be done, we need more control!'

    When its happening in another country that we want to 'control' / 'free' - 'its a necessary evil'

    When its happening in other parts of the world where not interested in at the moment - 'sod it, let them kill each other'

    When its happening in other parts of the world & through various media sources we can quite clearly see its unethical - 'something must be done! How can we let this happen!'

    - You tell me, because I don't know.
    'since the flaming telly's been taken away, we don't even know if the Queen of Englands gone off with the dustman'.
    Lizzie Birdsworth, Episode 64, Prisoner Cell Block H.
  • simonaspinall
    simonaspinall Posts: 645
    adodsk wrote:
    guns? knives? doesn't matter. a scumbag was recently jailed in Dublin for stabbing two lads to death with a screwdriver.... close down B&Q immediately!!!........

    Risk:Benefit ratio - There is very little benefit if any in guns being as widespread as kitchen knives, screwdrivers - Lots of items can be made into a weapon with intent, however the intended application is far removed from murder. Sports, kitchen, DIY equipment and more can all be used to tool up people, which happens - however how they are sold and used is completely different.

    Also consider the impact of a screwdriver getting into the wrong hands - somewhat less threatening than a gun, particularly when there are several people around who would be more likely to overpower the offender than if they had a shotgun.
    What wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!
  • Bikerbaboon
    Bikerbaboon Posts: 1,017
    simonaspinall wrote:
    adodsk wrote:
    guns? knives? doesn't matter. a scumbag was recently jailed in Dublin for stabbing two lads to death with a screwdriver.... close down B&Q immediately!!!........


    Also consider the impact of a screwdriver getting into the wrong hands - somewhat less threatening than a gun, particularly when there are several people around who would be more likely to overpower the offender than if they had a shotgun.

    Devils advocate and flame proof kit on.

    But if there was a crazy with a shotgun running though the town shooting people and all of the people also had guns they could over power him?
    ( i dont think that wide spread gun ownership is a good plan generaly but its hard to draw the line)

    As for a screwdiver used as a weapon.
    Custard powder... you can blow up buildings with it... it should be banned.
    Same with aluminium.. so ban anything made of aluminium.

    I think we need a risk reward assesment but we cant allow fear to get involved.
    Nothing in life can not be improved with either monkeys, pirates or ninjas
    456
  • Porgy
    Porgy Posts: 4,525
    Cars are pretty lethal weapons even without an amed up driver

    http://sfist.com/2010/06/03/hit_and_run ... yclist.php
  • Porgy
    Porgy Posts: 4,525
    Bikerbaboon wrote:
    simonaspinall wrote:
    adodsk wrote:
    guns? knives? doesn't matter. a scumbag was recently jailed in Dublin for stabbing two lads to death with a screwdriver.... close down B&Q immediately!!!........

    But if there was a crazy with a shotgun running though the town shooting people and all of the people also had guns they could over power him?

    It'd be like the end of Hot Fuzz more like - a massive gunfight in the village - probably a higher death toll than if the one guy had been shooting. Even worse if the police joined in and didn;t know who was the criminal who were attempting to "defend themselves".

    Bloodbath.
  • 1footedninja
    1footedninja Posts: 269
    edited June 2010
    my sympathies go back with the victims & their families, life ain't a movie.

    good point though. bring on the zombie apocalypse we will all want guns then!

    expect more draconian knee-jerking though from 'those powers that be'. and politicians / celebs on the sycophant bandwagon.genuine sympathies obivously all well and good but I highly doubt it from some of the skin-crawlingly fame / power / money hungry grubbers that are in the public eye.
    'since the flaming telly's been taken away, we don't even know if the Queen of Englands gone off with the dustman'.
    Lizzie Birdsworth, Episode 64, Prisoner Cell Block H.
  • simonaspinall
    simonaspinall Posts: 645
    Bikerbaboon wrote:
    simonaspinall wrote:
    adodsk wrote:
    guns? knives? doesn't matter. a scumbag was recently jailed in Dublin for stabbing two lads to death with a screwdriver.... close down B&Q immediately!!!........


    Also consider the impact of a screwdriver getting into the wrong hands - somewhat less threatening than a gun, particularly when there are several people around who would be more likely to overpower the offender than if they had a shotgun.

    Devils advocate and flame proof kit on.

    But if there was a crazy with a shotgun running though the town shooting people and all of the people also had guns they could over power him?
    ( i dont think that wide spread gun ownership is a good plan generaly but its hard to draw the line)

    As for a screwdiver used as a weapon.
    Custard powder... you can blow up buildings with it... it should be banned.
    Same with aluminium.. so ban anything made of aluminium.

    I think we need a risk reward assesment but we cant allow fear to get involved.

    Going back to my previous post - I understand the idea of equivalent defence, however consider the consequence of that many guns in a busy public area...not good. It's a hell of an assumption that gun owners will have the skill, composure, time, accurate interpretation and observation of the offender to subdue/eliminate the threat.

    We don't have high gun ownership in this country (something like under 5%) and consequently it's an unusual thing to see a gun. There are still daily occurences of guns being carried and used in threat and attack, however these are often concentrated in inner city areas and consequently the overwhelming majority of people in this country do not come into contact with guns and hence why the murder rate with a gun is so low.

    More people probably choke to death on custard powder than have been killed in explosions by it.

    TBH the system may need tweaking with more contact with the gun licensing administrator and assessment but by and large this event is still very much a very anoccasional happening - up there with major terrorist attacks - so I think we should keep to the same tact.
    What wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    People owning guns in America just lead to more deaths. Kids playing with legal guns, demented owners going crazy with them. If they havent got a gun, they cant shoot anyone.

    Farmers have a legitimate right to own and use guns. A taxi driver doesnt.

    I dont see that owning guns is really a legitimate leisure interest ?
  • Homer J
    Homer J Posts: 920
    the fact that this sort of thing does not happen every week in this country maybe shows that our gun laws (whatever they are) do work?
  • rml380z
    rml380z Posts: 244
    Homer J wrote:
    the fact that this sort of thing does not happen every week in this country maybe shows that our gun laws (whatever they are) do work?

    Just heard on the radio that the six countries with the highest civilian legal gun ownership per capita (France, Finland, USA, Canada, Yemen +1 other I forget) are also the six countries with the highest number of killing sprees. Make of that what you will.
  • 1footedninja
    1footedninja Posts: 269
    edited June 2010
    bullshit_detector.gif

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _ownership
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ma ... of_victims
    http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Gun_control
    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... per-capita

    I'll trust these bits of bullsh@t over your bit of bullsh@t, for now anyway.
    'since the flaming telly's been taken away, we don't even know if the Queen of Englands gone off with the dustman'.
    Lizzie Birdsworth, Episode 64, Prisoner Cell Block H.
  • glauciaregina9
    glauciaregina9 Posts: 259
    cougie wrote:

    I dont see that owning guns is really a legitimate leisure interest ?



    Hmmm. Some people think the same about me and my bike. And I think playing golf is indefensible and weird.

    Only difference is, if I were to be pushed over the edge, there isn't much risk of me causing mayhem armed with just a bike.

    Ok, I know guns and bikes aren't really comparable.

    My point is, I don't think banning gun ownership is the answer. You can't legislate against freak incidents, otherwise we'd be banning all the other things that, in the wrong hands, can result in death (cars, aeroplanes, knives, etc)

    Thousands of people are killed my motor vehicles every year, yet all these deaths are almost treated like an acceptable tragedy. Nobody bats an eyelid. And I don't hear anyone trying to ban motoring.

    Not sure what the answer is to be honest...
    Earn Cashback @ Wiggle, CRC, Evans, AW Cycles, Alpine Bikes, ProBikeKit, Cycles UK :

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  • 1footedninja
    1footedninja Posts: 269
    glauciaregina9 wrote:
    Thousands of people are killed my motor vehicles every year, yet all these deaths are almost treated like an acceptable tragedy. Nobody bats an eyelid. And I don't hear anyone trying to ban motoring.

    Not sure what the answer is to be honest...

    +1
    'since the flaming telly's been taken away, we don't even know if the Queen of Englands gone off with the dustman'.
    Lizzie Birdsworth, Episode 64, Prisoner Cell Block H.
  • bearfraser
    bearfraser Posts: 435
    if you outlaw guns only the outlaws will have guns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every time some Tw@ goes on a rampage the gun control softies come out, they have allready managed to completley "frell" the sport of shooting post "Dunblane".Why not ban it all together and give eveyone one of those Mythical "W.M.D.s"
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    bearfraser wrote:
    if you outlaw guns only the outlaws will have guns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Are you American? That's the usual response you get from the NRA after one of the USAs regular killing sprees.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • 1footedninja
    1footedninja Posts: 269
    oo look Britains got talent is on...


    *switch brain off*


    ooo look latest craze/hype/new gizmo...

    *switch brain off*


    ooo look 56 channels of American Gladiators...

    *mmmm I need fast-food*



    moo!
    'since the flaming telly's been taken away, we don't even know if the Queen of Englands gone off with the dustman'.
    Lizzie Birdsworth, Episode 64, Prisoner Cell Block H.
  • sampurnell
    sampurnell Posts: 126
    1footedninja wrote:
    oo look Britains got talent is on...

    *switch brain off*

    ooo look latest craze/hype/new gizmo...

    *switch brain off*

    ooo look 56 channels of American Gladiators...

    *mmmm I need fast-food*
    moo!

    i dont see how this is relevant, the bill hicks reference made me smile but he was anti gun ownership?
  • Porgy
    Porgy Posts: 4,525
    glauciaregina9 wrote:

    Not sure what the answer is to be honest...

    The only certain lesson I can take from this is don;t wear a high visiblity jacket when out cycling in the country.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    The right to bear arms
    _
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    1footedninja wrote:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _ownership.


    WTF is going on in Finland??
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Cleat Eastwood
    Cleat Eastwood Posts: 7,508
    I bet you taxi drivers tips will go up now in Cumbria....if only as protection money
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • Mad Roadie
    Mad Roadie Posts: 710
    sampurnell wrote:
    1footedninja wrote:
    oo look Britains got talent is on...

    *switch brain off*

    ooo look latest craze/hype/new gizmo...

    *switch brain off*

    ooo look 56 channels of American Gladiators...

    *mmmm I need fast-food*
    moo!

    i dont see how this is relevant, the bill hicks reference made me smile but he was anti gun ownership?


    only 15% of Americans own a passport, thats about 14.5% too many inst it?
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    The gun lobby keep using self defence as justification and even this thread alludes to the idea of armed citizens being able to stop massacre perpetrators in the midst of their killing spree.
    My question is, has this ever happened? I do not study such issues but, my passing recollection is that the perp' almost always takes their own life.
    Argument defeated?
  • LJAR
    LJAR Posts: 128
    I took the time to make a graph of Gun ownership vs Gun deaths.

    There is a broad correlation, but ownership is not the whole story.

    eg the US has more guns (0.9 per person) and more deaths (11.66 per 100,000)

    but brazil has 0.088 guns per person, and a higher death rate (14 per 100,000)

    Canada and Sweden have the same ownership rate, but Canada has twice the death rate.

    Low ownership seems to help, but there is unlikely to be a direct causative relationship. Tackle the reasons for the crime and the desire to murder, not the murder weapon.
  • Porgy
    Porgy Posts: 4,525
    LJAR wrote:
    Canada and Sweden have the same ownership rate, but Canada has twice the death rate.

    That's probably down to Canadians being shot by visiting Americans :lol:

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