Tubeless ?
Silversladey
Posts: 450
Fed up of picking up punctures (7 in the last five rides) :evil: . Need some advice about going tubeless, what do i need to buy, how hard is it do and what are the costs :?:
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Are you getting pinch flats or punctures?0
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punctures, had a double puncture at the end of Whites level last week and another two yesterday due to thorns on a local trail. have got mountain king 2.4 tyre on the front and a race king 2.2 on the back0
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Tubeless all but eliminate pinch flats. But its still possible to get regular brand punctures. Normally tubeless tyres run a bit of gloop inside to seal any small punctures and patch repairs to the insides of tyres last much better than on tubes.
Personally I'm a fan - but i still always carry a spare tube just incase!Lapierre Spicy 516 XTR custom (2013) -http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129323320 -
I just went tubeless last week ....
2 New tyres, as I wanted something more summer oriented and low rolling resistance, so got Schwalbe Rocket Ron - front and Racing Ralph - rear ....
No Tubes sealant
2x Valves
Took me a couple of hours to do from start to finish, but when you know what you're doing it takes much less time + if the tyres are less leaky to start with it speeds things up too.
The NoTubes website has a helpful video, talking you through - and that is what I followed, found it pretty spot on, except I didn't need to drill my valve hole out, nor use a rim strip, as my rims are tubeless ready.
see this
http://www.notubes.com/movieinstall.php
Did take me quite a few goes at shaking the sealant around - especially the front tyre, which is pretty lightweight and porous, so needed sealing well. Ended up adding a bit of extra sealant to help - used about 110/120 mils all in - each tyre.
They went down a few times over the first few days, then when riding this weekend they stayed inflated on each ride, though I did re-pump them for day 2.
I noticed quite a big different in the feel of the ride - more 'floaty' with good grip due to running slightly lower pressure than normal - 35 psi as opposed to 40/42 normally. Rolling resistance was also reduced, though that may be as much due to the tyre change.
Many tyre manufacturers do different tyre types - lightweight, medium/budget and UST specific - so it depends if you are bothered about weight loss, puncture resistance and ease of set-up, as to which you go for......
I reckon the wheels are a little lighter - roll better etc - but certainly felt the ride has improved. So, so far I prefer it this way .... long may it continue. I do know of some people who got fed up with not retaining air pressure who reverted to tubes .... but decided if I didn't try it for myself I would not know for sure.
I still carry inner tubes with me on my rides, as if I did get a puncture I would need to replace the tube to carry on ...... may be messy - with sealant all over the place, but better than being stranded if it were to happen.Rocky Mountain Altitude 50 (+ upgrades.....!)0 -
You can still get punctures with tubeless, that's one of the big hypes about it. (the other one being that it's lighter, a lot of the time it ends up heavier if you don't use the right kit). But it does help.
Another option might be different tyres, if you've not got the Protection contis on that won't help- Conti's approach is "We make a puncture resistant tyre so it's OK that the other tyres pop like balloons". Very delicate tyres.Uncompromising extremist0 -
Northwind wrote:vanamees wrote:You can still get punctures with tubeless - ofcourse tubelessgets punctures, but not FLATS.
Sorry if this seems harsh but this is just nonsense.
I have to say I'm with Vanamees on this one. There have been several times while out riding when I have had a puncture with my tubeless set up and after waiting a minute for the milky gloop inside to do its do all I've had to do is put a little more air in and then be off on my way again.
The thing with the tubeless set up is that it will seal the vast majority of puntures it suffers, generally speaking without you even knowing you had one in the first place. Of course this wont work if you get a rip or suchlike but thats where the spare just in case tube comes in handy. Mine btw is still in my bag 7 months after putting it there.
7 months. No punctures. & relax... 8)0 -
stayhigh65 wrote:Of course this wont work if you get a rip or suchlike but thats where the spare just in case tube comes in handy.
Exactly. There are holes that tubeless sealant can't fix, that's just a fact. Anyone who believes it's an end to flats completely is deluded tbh. But obviously it does hugely reduce them.
I've had one on the trails since I went tubeless, a bit of glass that left a cut that'd seal but reopened as soon as I rode, so it'd flatten after less than 5 minutes... Patched it from the inside and job's a good 'un. But, also I've found when fitting tyres that they've had old punctures that were impossible to seal up without a patch. And of course, nothing will sort a tear other than a boot and an inner tube.Uncompromising extremist0 -
Ultimately, as said above, Tubeless is still rubber andat the mercy of flint, thorns broken glass etc that is left on the tral.
I run Contis on my tubeless set up. One year of riding. One puncture that needed a tube to go in (the superjuiice was p!ssing out and no way was it going to seal the gash...so in went a tube. Other than that, I've had numerous thorns etc which have self sealed. I love tubeless.
Compare that to my old tube set up where I would flat at least a couple of times a month and I am more than happy with the switch!0 -
I used to get 2 puncture's a week at least before going tubeless! Been running tubeless for around 2 1/2 years now and not had a single puncture !! Only problem i had was running very low pressure and a bad landing popped the tyre of the rim other than hat no probs:)0
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I might go tubeless as my rims are UST so I guess I don't even need sealant but what puts me off is both price and added weight. My current combo is 650g (tube + tyre) whereas UST tyres are typically around 750g.0
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I recently went tubeless with UST wheels. Rear wheel has a UST tyre. The front has a 'normal' tyre converted to tubeless with Stans sealant, and is c200g lighter than the UST version. 8)0
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i havent had a flat tyre on a ride since i converted any of my bikes. as far as i can tell, the kind of damage to a tyre which cant be sealed would defeat a tubed tyre too so its like comparing apples and oranges.0
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I've been running tubeless for about 2 years now I think. Haven't had a puncture since. Haven't had a pinch flat since. Have had plenty of grip. Have had plenty of running silly low tyre pressures. Have taken the piss out of plenty of stone-age tech riders with their silly inner tubes when they fail several times a ride.
A guy asked me why everyone doesn't run tubeless the other day. Can't understand it myself either. Although I'm sure some fatty who managed to rip off his tubeless tyre from the rim at 10 psi trying to ride something stupid badly will tell you how bad it is.0 -
nickfrog wrote:I might go tubeless as my rims are UST so I guess I don't even need sealant but what puts me off is both price and added weight. My current combo is 650g (tube + tyre) whereas UST tyres are typically around 750g.
Use standard tyres. Unless you live somewhere seriously hard on sidewalls it'll do you fine. Just do your research first.Uncompromising extremist0 -
Been thinking about doing this for while, now decided i defiantly will, what is the difference between the stan kit and joe kit?0
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few questions, as I am considering tubeless, just got some Shimano XT UST wheels, I rarely get puncture, just want faster rolling, lighter wheels, mainly for racing.
I don't need any rim tape with UST rims, right?
I don't need any sealant if I run UST specific tyres on UST rims, right?
as mentioned by others, the UST tyres weigh more than my current Tyre + Tube set up,
so can I use sealant to fill all the holes in a non-UST tyre, can this make the non-UST tyre weigh as much as a UST one?
can I remove any the excess sealant?
finally, can I switch tyres easily?0 -
I was running Maxxis Advantages tubeless until a few weeks ago. They sealed fine, but I kept pinching the tyre between the ground and the rim (something I've only ever done once with tubes), which would lead to punctures that wouldn't seal. Or if they did seal, they'd suddenly unseal and pee out all of the sealant. Meaning I'd have to put a tube in, which lead to me being covered in sealant, then having to unstick the tube and tyre to re-tubeless them when I got home.
The final straw was when I changed to my summer tyres, Racing Ralphs, a few weeks ago. The front was has sealed fine and is still tubeless. It seated first time, leaked a triny bit of sealant through the sidewalls for a few minutes but has been fine since.
The back..... :evil:
I must have wasted about £15 worth of sealant on it. It refuses to seal the sidewalls. I was having to stop every 20 minutes on rides to put more air in. Once I got the tyre fairly firm it would start spitting sealant through the sidewalls, this would carry on until the pressure dropped so low that the tyre felt like it was going to roll off the rim. I went for a ride on Friday, put even more sealant in when I got home as it was still leaking (2 weeks and several hundred ml of sealant later) and when I got back from a weekend away on Monday afternoon, the tyre was completely flat and there was a pool of sealant on the garage floor.
The front (and both the Maxxis tyres) stuck to the rim strip and created a seal, but for some reason the back hasn't. I've had enough so I've just recovered as much sealant as I could from the tyre, put it in a tube and I'm using that now.
Having said all that, if I had a spare wodge of cash I'd probably buy some proper UST wheels and tyres and do it that way, but it's £500 I can't justify, especially as I seemed to get more pinchflats with tubeless than with tubes, and didn't notice any of the other claimed advantages. When I took the Advantages off, there was one thorn in the front tyre, so potentially I spent all that money and had all the hassle for one puncture. I think the sealant in the tube system is just a hell of a lot easier.0 -
amt27 wrote:few questions, as I am considering tubeless, just got some Shimano XT UST wheels, I rarely get puncture, just want faster rolling, lighter wheels, mainly for racing.
I don't need any rim tape with UST rims, right?
Not sure, sorry.I don't need any sealant if I run UST specific tyres on UST rims, right?
You dont need it. But if you get a puncture you're screwed.as mentioned by others, the UST tyres weigh more than my current Tyre + Tube set up,
so can I use sealant to fill all the holes in a non-UST tyre, can this make the non-UST tyre weigh as much as a UST one?
Yes.can I remove any the excess sealant?
After you've sealed the sidewalls? Yes. But why? again, if you get a puncture you'll still lose all the air.finally, can I switch tyres easily?
Not as easily as with a tube, but it's not especially difficult. It depends how lucky you get with them seating on the rim. You could be there for hours with no joy, or it might inflate at the first attempt.0 -
amt27 wrote:
as mentioned by others, the UST tyres weigh more than my current Tyre + Tube set up,
so can I use sealant to fill all the holes in a non-UST tyre, can this make the non-UST tyre weigh as much as a UST one?
In my case with Continental Mountain Kings - no. The converted tyre is considerably lighter.amt27 wrote:I don't need any rim tape with UST rims, right?
UST rims only have a hole for the valve so do not need a rim strip.0 -
amt27 wrote:so can I use sealant to fill all the holes in a non-UST tyre, can this make the non-UST tyre weigh as much as a UST one?
Probably not. I just weighed a tubelessized standard Nevegal the other day and it was about 20 grams heavier than one which had never seen sealant... But that's within the variance you can get within a tyre model so not all that useful. The actual amount of sealant that gets absorbed by the tyre is pretty small and not likely to make a significant difference.
Course, the liquid sealant in the tyre will have a weight impact, but you'll want that with UST tyres as well, most likely. You might want to run a wee bit more in a standard tyre than you would in a UST one, but not enough to make up the difference.Uncompromising extremist0 -
I am running XT rims with conti tyres. No seating problems, no pinches even at low pressures, no leakage of air.
You can do it two ways. - excluding ghetto.
Full on UST tyres - heavier than standard tyres but prob on a par once you take tubes into account. I like these. Sidewalls give me confidence and they don't leak.
Tubeless Ready Tyres - As light as a standard tyre but designed to be run tubeless with a splodge of sealant. Probably the most weight efficient way of doing it. Bontrager and specailized 2bliss both make good ranges of this type.
Personally I love tubeless. Was a little concerned at first that it was just a gimmic but now 100% converted that it's better than tubes.0 -
What are UST Tyres and how much do they cost, sorry for being a biff when it comes to this only been riding seriously for a couple of months0
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UST tyres are those that are designed specifically for Tubeless riding. They have a thicker sidewall that is airtight. You can use with or without sealant. I use with.
Not sure actually what "UST" stands for...I think I am right in saying that Mavic designed it and patented it.
As mentioned earlier, there are "Tubeless Ready" again - similar to UST but a bit lighter and you can use easily with tubes or no tubes without problems. bontrager recommend that you use theirs with sealant - adds a bit of puncture protection and also makes good any slightly porous sidewall.
Have a look here - although I don't agree that they are a pig to install. Mine go on and off with thumbs and no levers!
http://www.bikemag.com/features/onlineexclusive/040306_vernon/index1.htmll0 -
Silversladey wrote:What are UST Tyres and how much do they cost, sorry for being a biff when it comes to this only been riding seriously for a couple of months
whats wrong with being a biff ?
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Can seem to make the link work when I add the URL.....this is the exact text to paste into your browser though...
http://www.bikemag.com/features/onlinee ... ndex1.html0 -
