Advice please after problems with expensive service

ForumNewbie

My audax bike was in the bike shop for a full service last week. I decided to treat it to a full service (all bearings re-greased etc.) and get new inner and outer gear and brake cables fitted and new bar tape etc. As it cost me over £130 for all this I expected everything to be just right. I had to adjust the front brake (as the pad was rubbing against the wheel) before a quick ride last night, but apart from that it seemed okay.

However today I noticed that they hadn't even fitted the new bar tape correctly as on one side there is quite a big bit of metal handlebar showing beneath one of the hoods and the bar is not fully covered under the other hood either. I thought that was fairly sloppy workmanship.

Then I also noticed when I was cleaning the back wheel (as smudged all over with oil) that a big chip had somehow been taken out of the side wall of the alloy wheel. It's like the shape and size of a screwdriver head! The bike seemed to ride okay last night and the tyre seems unaffected, but I don't like the fact that there is now a big chip in the side of the wheel.

I am really disappointed as I intentionally put the bike into an expensive independent bike shop as I didn't mind paying for the full works as I expected a professional job and a shiny new bike back, but there were even oil smudges on various parts of the silver frame that they hadn't even been bothered to wipe off.

Although the bar tape is not a big problem, I think that I am within my rights to ask them to retape it properly which will mean them fitting new bar tape again. Do you agree?

I will also mention the wheel problem although they will probably deny it was them, as I would not expect them to want to replace the wheel.

I would appreciate any views and advice.

fizz

I tihnk you'd be perfectly within your rights to take it back and ask them to retape the bars. If you havent ridden it much you might find that you can unwind it and sort it out yourself though without replacing the bar tape. Its not hard to do, just takes a bit of patience.

As for the wheel, well that would annoy me and I'd be politely asking them how it happened and what they intended to do about it.

Best of luck getting it sorted out.

rake

yet another top dollar bike shop calamity. :roll:
theyre only after an easy payday and dont give a stuff about you or bike.

giant_man

Just one of the reasons why I service my bikes myself. Apart from the money that is.

richardspooner

Thats pretty disgraceful service. I paid the same amount of money for exactly the same job a few weeks back and as I was handed my bike and was paying up the shop owner took the bike off of me and took all the bar tape off one side and refitted it simply because he could see a slight baggy bit under the hood of the lever.

Me.... didn't even notice it even when I was messing with it prior to paying!

Last month when servicing my hub, the junior mechanic apparently dropped the last sprocket off of the cassette onto some tools on the floor and managed to chip a tooth. Again, I wouldn't have even noticed had they not told me, but the shop owner took a sprocket off of a display bike and fitted it. Ultegra for Ultegra too. Because that's the sort of shop that knows they see me every six weeks or so for one thing or another, and every body else they look after like that.

THAT'S the sort of service you should expect, and that is how LBS's should behave. Otherwise they might just as well be a Halfords franchise.

Go back and politely but firmly play merry hell up on a Saturday afternoon when the shop is busy. You'll find they'll shut you up really quickly by sorting it out. Might take a bit of male posturing but unless they REALLY don't care then tell everybody in there exactly what they did and leave. All you can do I'm afraid.

dilemna

Which LBS was it?

I would never give my bike for a service as I object to paying some one £30-40 an hour for something I can do myself ........ better as well.

Your statutory rights lie with the Sale and Supply of Goods and Services Act (can't remember which year, 1982 IIRC). They need to show reasonable care and skill in carrying out the work. It would seem from what you have said that they have failed to do this. As some said above go in on a busy saturday with lots of people in the shop. Speak in a loud but not abrasive tone to the manager asking him what he is going to do about the faults.

sturmey

Part of the pleasure I get from cycling is in maintaining my bikes to a high standard and being able to build bikes from scratch which I have done many times. The inconvenience and expense of using a bike shop for routine maintenance I would find soul-destroying especially when the standard of workmanship is so unpredictable.

I would advise you to complain to the shop as they have done a rubbish job for that money and above all else i would advise you to buy some tools and get spannering your own bike(s). You will never look back.

ynyswen24

+1
The wheel rim problem will come down to you against them. it is possible that you only noticed a pre-existing problem having been alerted by the rest of the service, on the other hand - at that price they should have alerted you to such a problem if they found it during the service. If they didn't see it and it was already there, they should have.
Go in on a Saturday, don't raise your voice, don't get abusive but stand your ground. Be prepared to talk quietly and calmly but step 1cm inside the comfort zone between you and the manager. If he steps back 1cm to reclaim that comfort zone, you've probably got a free service...

top_bhoy

Its easy to say 'do your own service' but often its not always as easy to do at a convenient time if you have long job hours, family, no workshop area, etc and don't have the confidence in your mechanical abilities. By all means look into it and doing your own service should be the long-term goal.

ScaldedCat

Definitely aim toward doing your own servicing, at 130 quid a pop you'd soon be able to build up a decent range of tools and equipment and it's very satisfying.

richardspooner

I sit somewhere in the middle. My bike shop is very convenient so its not a huge bind going there, but I have the limitations of long hours, a family and a limit to my knowledge that stops at BB's.

My full service was prompted by a crash and i wanted the frame checking so they did a routine service whilst at it and I just paid for one job.

I agree that the more you learn the better. I'd argue you get more feel for your bike when riding and can spot problems earlier on. I simply get the bike shop to do routine stuff if other things are been done and they knock money off.

Which, the debate about self maintenance aside, is surely what the relationship with a good LBS should be like. Right? Not dissatisfaction and poor jobs.

markmod

Hi I would say I'm the least technically mind guy there is. I have recently been given an old Alan based Donnay bike, and decided I was going to fettle it up, and learn about bike maintenece whilst doing so, I bought the park bike maintence big blue book and parts required.

I added new sti's (coverting from down tube shifters) replaced rusty chainring bolts, new brake and shifter cables, new saddle, seatpost and retaped my bars.

Now I no this is really only level one work, but I was really happy with the work I did, LBS did a little tweaking on the indexing, which was a little off still, and checked over my work (cost me £9.00)

You know what the work I did helped me understand how the gears and brakes actually work. I really enjoyed wrapping my bars - I reckon I have found my niche- wrapping bars is my thing.

I would like to do a course that allows me to do the full service.

Back to OP's LBS experience, when you give someone your bike to work on you expect them to treat it with the same care you do, and also do a professional job... I had no metal showing on my bar wrapping and it was the first time I had done it!

ForumNewbie

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm definately taking the bike back in as when I was out on it today, I found it difficult on several occasions to drop into the small ring (of triple chainring) on steep hiills - so they haven't even got the gears right as this was okay before the service.

I agree that I should try to do maintence myself. Have reindex my gears before with some limited succes. It's not really the cost of tools or time, I'm just not that mechanically minded, but I think I will definitely give it more of a try. However I think it's pretty shocking that even paying that sort of money you can't be guaranteed a good service.

I can only think the chunck out of the wheel rim was caused by them trying to remove or refit the tyre with a screwdriver which then slipped, instead of using a tyre lever. Incredible I know, but only explanation I can think of. Any time tyres have been off and changed before is when I have done it and used tyre levers - hole definitely wasn't there before.

I started to wonder today that if wheel was weakened by this and I hit say a pot hole or bump on that part of the wheel, could the whole rim fracture and therefore be dangerous? So I really think they should offer to replace the wheel.

Anyway, how they react and respond when I take it back in to the shop will depend on whether I use them ever again. If they are very apologetic and accept and rectify the faults I just might consider it.

justresting

Keep us informed as to how you get on.

ForumNewbie

I took the bike back to the shop this morning and calmly explained problems to the manager. He accepted what I said apart from the chunk out the wheel. He thought that it looked like the hole had been there for some time, but I am fairly sure it wasn't. He said that no way would mechanic use a screwdriver as a tyre lever. He did say that it should have been pointed out to me that the problem existed as it is potentially dangerous. He said a new wheel of same standard would cost about £130 - arggghhh - or they could reuse the hub to rebuild the wheel, costing about £75 incl parts and labour, although he seemed to indicate they wouldn't be able to do it any time soon. Anyway I said that when I got the bike back I would keep a close eye on the wheel to ensure it showed no further signs of weakening/fracturing before deciding on whether to replace or rebuild.

He noted down all the other things and agreed to fix them including replacing the bar tape. I also said that I was disappointed that the chain ring was still dirty and hadn't been cleaned at all and he noted that on his list of things to fix. I left the bike with him with the promise that all (apart from wheel) will be fixed before the end of the week. I'll let you know how things after I get the bike back.

ynyswen24

Sounds like he met you at least halfway, the wheel issue is pretty much as I expected but he did admit it's an issue that should have been raised with you. Get a written quote for the wheel rebuild if you want to hold him to it in the future. If the resevice is to your satisfaction then I hope you can build a good relationship with the LBS. Having a good LBS you can turn to is important even if you can do most mechanical jobs yourself. Hope it all turns out well.

synchronicity

END OF THE WEEK?!!!
[shakes head in disgust]

How long does it take to clean a chainring and re-tape a set of bars, FFS. :x :evil:

If I'd have been the manager and it was my shop, I would have told you:

It'll be ready within 45 minutes. If you like you can peruse one of our bike books over in the lounge section. the coffee is on the house.

I give faster service and I am dealing with a bike hire business for chrizesake... I often have to fix things like you describe NOW, like this instant. Not tomorrow, not the day after, not even the day after that.

(and we all know that the bar tape is a pesky job but I have to do it without even charging - bar tape should be good to start with :shock:)

giant_man

Disgusting service if you ask me. Quite insulting that they are going to make you wait for them to correct their mistakes. The wheel thing well obviously they're not sure whose fault that it but to make you wait, for me, warrants a change of LBS ...

ForumNewbie

I know end of week sounds a long time, but as the mechanic wasn't in yesterday being Bank Holiday Monday, I just said that as long as I get it all fixed by end of the week that would be okay. One of the main problems I noted when I rode the bike was that it wasn't dropping into the smallest ring in the triple chainset when I needed it. I therefore said that I wanted them to check all the gears and correct and do a test ride to check, as sometimes problems don't fully show when there are just going through the gears on the bike stand.

As I recently bought a second bike (a hybrid), I'm happy to leave the Audax bike in to the end of the week to get it all sorted.

I don't know how many mechanics they have, but I would have thought they could have offered me a new wheel build immediately - with maybe me paying for the materials and them doing the labour for free, which I think he estimated at £25. That would be compromise I may yet ask for as I won't be very happy riding with the damaged wheel.

balthazar

If the chip had been made in the sidewall by the shop, it would have been bright silver when you saw it, allowing for a slight dulling from subsequent testing of the brake in the stand. If it was there already, it would have been as dull as the rest of the rim, and probably black from brake pad debris: rim sidewalls are dirty and abraded, and any recent damage is obvious.

This is probably too late in the dispute to take a picture, but it should be clear to you (and the bike shop) when the damage was done.

ForumNewbie

balthazar wrote:

If the chip had been made in the sidewall by the shop, it would have been bright silver when you saw it, allowing for a slight dulling from subsequent testing of the brake in the stand. If it was there already, it would have been as dull as the rest of the rim, and probably black from brake pad debris: rim sidewalls are dirty and abraded, and any recent damage is obvious.

This is probably too late in the dispute to take a picture, but it should be clear to you (and the bike shop) when the damage was done.

Good point. I wish I had looked more closely and taken a picture of the chip.

The mechanic phoned today and after asking him to check the gears closely as not dropping into the granny gear, he said he now thinks chain too long and a few links may need to be removed!! Hmmm - not convinced the chain was slack and not convinced that will fix it. I think I will need to phone the shop tomorrow to ensure it is fully checked and working before I pick up the bike.

Soni

Re the bar tape, i did mine last night, took all of 20 minutes, turned out perfect, really happy with it, done it a couple of times, but each time i refer back to this great you tube video here:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs7BY4wKHTM

ForumNewbie

Latest update - I phd shop on Thursday last week and spoke to manager to ask him to ensure that gears were fully tested by him or someone else as was not confident about what mechanic was telling me about shortening chain etc. He promised me gears would be fixed and bike would be fully road-tested for me picking up. So as I was reassured I went to collect it on Thursday just after 4pm. They asked me to road test to be sure, and as soon as I hit a hill and tried to drop to the granny ring - it didn't move. I tried a few times but it didn't shift down. Back at the shop the manager tried moving the lower adjustment screw and said try that. No luck again, and the shop was just closing so I was so pi**ed off that I said to leave it with me and I would try to sort it out myself.

On Friday I tried moving the adj screw but still no luck on road although it worked on bike stand. Then I thought I had it fixed but on Saturday's ride same problem. Then I spent about 2 hours on Saturday trying to fix after reading up on it on internet. I started from scratch by loosening the cable tension and I think that I have finally got it working, although I only had time for a short ride round the block and by that time I was really tired and annoyed. I need to fully test it again but I think the problem was that the cable tension was wrong and when I tried to drop down it didn't spring far enough over?

I also was annoyed to notice that where the cable on the rear derailler meets the barrell adjuster, the little metal bit that goes into the barrell adjuster from the cable housing is all rusty. I didn't think it was like that before, but surely as I paid for replacement of all cables and cable housing, this should have been renewed as well?

It makes me wonder whether the gear cable outers have been replaced at all. It is fairly obvious that the brake cables have been replaced as at least these cables and outers and barrell adjusters look new compared to the gear cables.

If I test ride again and there are still any problems shifting it will be going back to the shop yet again although really pi**ed off with it all.

balthazar

ForumNewbie wrote:

I also was annoyed to notice that where the cable on the rear derailler meets the barrell adjuster, the little metal bit that goes into the barrell adjuster from the cable housing is all rusty. I didn't think it was like that before, but surely as I paid for replacement of all cables and cable housing, this should have been renewed as well?

It makes me wonder whether the gear cable outers have been replaced at all. It is fairly obvious that the brake cables have been replaced as at least these cables and outers and barrell adjusters look new compared to the gear cables.

If you paid for new cable housing, then you should have it. It should be obvious if the housing is new – but to be sure, check for abrasion at the points where it touches the frame. The most likely points are either side of the head tube, and just behind the cable stop on the right side chainstay. It's possible that they could have replaced just the housing and re-used the old ferrules, though somewhat unprofessional.

I worked in a bike shop years ago, and when I hear these sorts of complaints, reading between the lines, I often detect a tricksy customer, and wonder how the story would go from the shop's side. In this case, however, my sympathy is entirely with you. Though triple chainring gears can be difficult to set up, especially with indexed front mechs, you've given them enough time to fix it and maintain your custom, and they've consistently failed. I can only suggest that you write off your engagement with them as a loss, and go elsewhere.

giant_man

ForumNewbie wrote:

Latest update - I phd shop on Thursday last week and spoke to manager to ask him to ensure that gears were fully tested by him or someone else as was not confident about what mechanic was telling me about shortening chain etc. He promised me gears would be fixed and bike would be fully road-tested for me picking up. So as I was reassured I went to collect it on Thursday just after 4pm. They asked me to road test to be sure, and as soon as I hit a hill and tried to drop to the granny ring - it didn't move. I tried a few times but it didn't shift down. Back at the shop the manager tried moving the lower adjustment screw and said try that. No luck again, and the shop was just closing so I was so pi**ed off that I said to leave it with me and I would try to sort it out myself.

Are you like their first customer for something?

On Friday I tried moving the adj screw but still no luck on road although it worked on bike stand. Then I thought I had it fixed but on Saturday's ride same problem. Then I spent about 2 hours on Saturday trying to fix after reading up on it on internet. I started from scratch by loosening the cable tension and I think that I have finally got it working, although I only had time for a short ride round the block and by that time I was really tired and annoyed. I need to fully test it again but I think the problem was that the cable tension was wrong and when I tried to drop down it didn't spring far enough over?

Sounds like you're doing their job for them.

I also was annoyed to notice that where the cable on the rear derailler meets the barrell adjuster, the little metal bit that goes into the barrell adjuster from the cable housing is all rusty. I didn't think it was like that before, but surely as I paid for replacement of all cables and cable housing, this should have been renewed as well?

It makes me wonder whether the gear cable outers have been replaced at all. It is fairly obvious that the brake cables have been replaced as at least these cables and outers and barrell adjusters look new compared to the gear cables.

If I test ride again and there are still any problems shifting it will be going back to the shop yet again although really pi**ed off with it all.

I would be absolutely livid by now too!

Soni

Normally too much cable tension, the limit screws can be adjusted until they are on their max, but if the cable tension is too great then the chain still isn't going to drop down....

If you are still having problems i would take the bike elsewhere, but beforehand write them a polite letter requesting a full refund on the money you have paid for the service, and if they are not prepared to oblige, then state within your letter that you will be contra-charging them for the entire bill received from the next bike shop.......

markmod

+1 for letter and refund, might be worth a name and shame to protect other innocents... Just not good enough... Very bad indeed!

I had similar with lbs, had front dérailleur adjusted and then shortly wouldn't go up to big ring. Upon closer inspection and remove the derailleur found braze on bracket was chewed up, so the whole dérailleur was moving on the bracket.

So I got another braze on, removed the old and screwed on the new, reasembled it and took it to another lbs instead who set up the gears, tighten loose screws etc so now it is perfect!!

I now have a LBS I can trust with all if my bikes, and that is all you really want isn't it...

synchronicity

Yeah. It's not all about cable tension though.
First things first, you need to check the height of the front derailleur. The outer cage plate should hover 2-3mm above the chainring teeth as they pass over into top gear.

Next check the lateral alignment, which is CRUCIAL with triple front derailleurs...

Good luck!

rake

coming up to a hill are you letting the tension off the pedals? it wont shift down if the chain is tight from pedaling.

ForumNewbie

rake wrote:

coming up to a hill are you letting the tension off the pedals? it wont shift down if the chain is tight from pedaling.

I'm hardly pedalling at all when trying to drop down. Since I last adjusted the tension I've not had a chance to test than other than down the street. I'll try testing tomorrow night as pouring rain here tonight.

The cage height seems okay and I think the alignment is okay as well, so I think it is cable tension, but really reluctant to put in back into that bike shop if still not shifting properly.

rake

my possible culprits providing you are only turning the chain lightly

a stiff hinge in the mech (some have bolts that can be slackened a tiny it to loosen it up) can be caused by dirt and dry weather.

cable not letting out enough.

limit screw in too far.

broken spring.

unbolt the cable and see if it moves with a good spring tension to the limit screw. the cage should be parallel to a straight chainline and 2 or 3mm above theteeth.