Thought on the Giro

donrhummy

1. Did BMC make a mistake by sending Hincapie to TOC instead of supporting Evans?

2. Obviously this is my opinion/guess but...watching Basso ride the Zoncolan like it was a 6.5% gradient while everyone else struggled was not much fun. It really felt like he easily had 1 or 2 more gears in him. Shades of 2006.

3. Watching Evans throw his bike back and forth on the Zoncolan was one of the best, most fun and exciting moments of the Giro. TONS of respect for the way he fought.

4. IMO, Zomegnan is the best grand tour organizer of the past 15 years. Since 2004, he's introduced so many fantastic stages, changes, routes, etc that have made the Giro the best GT route in the world. Very inventive guy, willing to take risks. I like that a lot.

5. Sastre's current position on GC vs. his rivals is a testament to his cycling smarts. He does not seem to have the same legs/engine of the past but because of his brilliant tactical riding (getting into that break), he's turned a 10+ minute deficit on his rivals into a 50 second deficit. Impressive.

6. If the Giro got all the same riders as the TDF, I'm convinced it would be the better, more exciting, harder race.

7. I wish it would broadcast in HD! Watching the giro, the racing is amazing. Way beyond the TOC. Yet, watching the TOC in HD makes it immensely watchable/interesting. The scenery just pops and is breathtaking, the riders efforts and facial expressions mesmerizing - it's just a perfect way to watch cycling.

jim one

donrhummy wrote:

5. Sastre's current position on GC vs. his rivals is a testament to his cycling smarts. He does not seem to have the same legs/engine of the past but because of his brilliant tactical riding (getting into that break), he's turned a 10+ minute deficit on his rivals into a 50 second deficit. Impressive.

Not sure many will agree with you here. He lost a load of time in the first place due to poor tactics within the bunch, meaning he was behind the splits

Tom Butcher

3 - He's got an ugly style on the bike - I don't necessarily think he was trying any harder than anyone else - prefer the ride of Scarponi who animated the race more than Evans who followed pretty much the whole way up. Of course he's entitled to do that to try and win the race - but as a spectacle I think Scarponi contributed more.
4 - Yes and no - the super steep mountain top finishes are too predictable for me - prefer the stages where it's more unpredictable, the limestone road stages, the stages that finish after a descent, stages with a smaller climb near the finish where riders have to take risks to gain time not just rely on power to weight.

iainf72

donrhummy wrote:

2. Obviously this is my opinion/guess but...watching Basso ride the Zoncolan like it was a 6.5% gradient while everyone else struggled was not much fun. It really felt like he easily had 1 or 2 more gears in him. Shades of 2006.

Are you watching the same Giro? He was turning himself inside out and didn't look anything like 2006.

To me he looked like he was hovering at the line when you crack and stop, but managing it well.

Bakunin

Although Iain is president of the Basso fan club, I would agree that he was fighting as hard as Evans yesterday. He looked like he was in serious pain. Basso looked very human yesterday, not other-worldly (as in 2006).

iainf72

Bakunin wrote:

Although Iain is president of the Basso fan club, I would agree that he was fighting as hard as Evans yesterday. He looked like he was in serious pain. Basso looked very human yesterday, not other-worldly (as in 2006).

So far in this Giro, and it's really wierd, there haven't been any ET performances I'd say. Remember last year you could almost see every cycling fan raise their eyebrows at DDL at the same time.

A bit ghey, but I thought some of the words in this from cyclingnews were interesting

Basso is counting on home crowd support to bring him success in Verona on Sunday. "Many of you attend the sign-in ceremony every morning," he said to reporters. "So you realize how spectators have been nice to me. I can only be happy with that. Cycling enthusiasts have figured out for themselves what happened (referring to his doping ban - ed.)." Basso added a comment that spectators could look into his eyes, full of expression yesterday, and form their own opinions

LangerDan

Basso just picked better gearing. Shades of the Vuelta on the Angliru when Valv.piti proclaimed that pros don't need those piddly gears and then went "bang" while Bertie twiddled off into the sunset..

inkyfingers

LangerDan wrote:

Basso just picked better gearing. Shades of the Vuelta on the Angliru when Valv.piti proclaimed that pros don't need those piddly gears and then went "bang" while Bertie twiddled off into the sunset..

I think that has to be difference. Basso rode brilliantly but I don't he's so much better that he could be sat in the saddle spinning while Evans was doing his bucking bronco impression on his wheel.

rick_chasey

Given the Giro is a madhouse anyway, they should limit the size of gearing allowed on bikes...

That'd be fun.

mididoctors

Rick Chasey wrote:

Given the Giro is a madhouse anyway, they should limit the size of gearing allowed on bikes...

That'd be fun.

fixed gear only

donrhummy

Tom Butcher wrote:

3 - He's got an ugly style on the bike - I don't necessarily think he was trying any harder than anyone else - prefer the ride of Scarponi who animated the race more than Evans who followed pretty much the whole way up. Of course he's entitled to do that to try and win the race - but as a spectacle I think Scarponi contributed more.
4 - Yes and no - the super steep mountain top finishes are too predictable for me - prefer the stages where it's more unpredictable, the limestone road stages, the stages that finish after a descent, stages with a smaller climb near the finish where riders have to take risks to gain time not just rely on power to weight.

Re: Evans:

"Following" on a mountain as steep as Zoncolan gives ZERO benefit. After 14%, a bike is actually less efficient than walking and the wind drag becomes a very minor impact, whereas gravity is a much greater force to fight against.

blazing_saddles

Giro fact.
Kms remaining (approx) 750
Vertical climbing remaining (exact) 16,610 metres.
Oh and the white knuckle descent of the Gavia in the "wrong" direction.

On course to become an all time great.

donrhummy

iainf72 wrote:

donrhummy wrote:

2. Obviously this is my opinion/guess but...watching Basso ride the Zoncolan like it was a 6.5% gradient while everyone else struggled was not much fun. It really felt like he easily had 1 or 2 more gears in him. Shades of 2006.

Are you watching the same Giro? He was turning himself inside out and didn't look anything like 2006.

To me he looked like he was hovering at the line when you crack and stop, but managing it well.

I don't know. I watched him in 2006 (used to be a fan of his) and the speed at which he pulled away from Evans on Zoncolan and the ease with which he did it (perfect body motion, no swinging up/down/side-side) was more like 2006 than 2009. Last year, I could see him suffering in the mountains. This year he looked calm.

Now I'm NOT saying he didn't work hard going up the mountain! Even Rasmussen worked hard going up mountains. But he definitely looked like he had another gear left there and that it was a 90-95% effort whereas everyone else looked to be at 100%.

dougzz

I thought Basso looked all out. Don't forget that on Saturday Basso got a free ride after the final descent as Nibali was ahead and Scarponi and Evans couldn't expect Basso to share the work. Evans ride Sunday was awesome, total respect. Basso just has a smoother looking style, but I think the eyes said I'm at 100% and there's no more to give.

PS. 2006 Don't forget he didn't dope, he only prepared to........ :roll:

dave_1

donrhummy wrote:

1. Did BMC make a mistake by sending Hincapie to TOC instead of supporting Evans?

2. Obviously this is my opinion/guess but...watching Basso ride the Zoncolan like it was a 6.5% gradient while everyone else struggled was not much fun. It really felt like he easily had 1 or 2 more gears in him. Shades of 2006.

3. Watching Evans throw his bike back and forth on the Zoncolan was one of the best, most fun and exciting moments of the Giro. TONS of respect for the way he fought.

4. IMO, Zomegnan is the best grand tour organizer of the past 15 years. Since 2004, he's introduced so many fantastic stages, changes, routes, etc that have made the Giro the best GT route in the world. Very inventive guy, willing to take risks. I like that a lot.

5. Sastre's current position on GC vs. his rivals is a testament to his cycling smarts. He does not seem to have the same legs/engine of the past but because of his brilliant tactical riding (getting into that break), he's turned a 10+ minute deficit on his rivals into a 50 second deficit. Impressive.

6. If the Giro got all the same riders as the TDF, I'm convinced it would be the better, more exciting, harder race.

7. I wish it would broadcast in HD! Watching the giro, the racing is amazing. Way beyond the TOC. Yet, watching the TOC in HD makes it immensely watchable/interesting. The scenery just pops and is breathtaking, the riders efforts and facial expressions mesmerizing - it's just a perfect way to watch cycling.

Basso will be off his high today. He doesn't seem to TT on the flat or up mountains-see Alpe D'huez 2004. Also, the 2004 and 2005 TDF shows Ivan Basso goes off form the day or two days after the rest day...in both of those years he's had bad days off rest days. It might not suit him to do a full on effort today.

Also, as Evans noted, he had too big a bear on at Zoncolan, so with that corrected we should see a much closer contest in the MTT.

The VAMs and Zoncolan times, power-weight ratios suggest these guys are on bread and water so to speak which usually means closer racing given how similar they are in tech, training and physiology.

.

moray_gub

iainf72 wrote:

Bakunin wrote:

Basso is counting on home crowd support to bring him success in Verona on Sunday. "Many of you attend the sign-in ceremony every morning," he said to reporters. "So you realize how spectators have been nice to me. I can only be happy with that. Cycling enthusiasts have figured out for themselves what happened (referring to his doping ban - ed.)." Basso added a comment that spectators could look into his eyes, full of expression yesterday, and form their own opinions

Thats pretty vomit inducing stuff and he is still working the myth re his non doping. In a way he is worse than Vino who in the main didnt try to pul wool over folks eyes for two years like Basso did. Sure was an impressive win on Sunday but he should spare us the bull about cycling fans looking into his eyes.

Tom Butcher

donrhummy wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

3 - He's got an ugly style on the bike - I don't necessarily think he was trying any harder than anyone else - prefer the ride of Scarponi who animated the race more than Evans who followed pretty much the whole way up. Of course he's entitled to do that to try and win the race - but as a spectacle I think Scarponi contributed more.
4 - Yes and no - the super steep mountain top finishes are too predictable for me - prefer the stages where it's more unpredictable, the limestone road stages, the stages that finish after a descent, stages with a smaller climb near the finish where riders have to take risks to gain time not just rely on power to weight.

Re: Evans:

"Following" on a mountain as steep as Zoncolan gives ZERO benefit. After 14%, a bike is actually less efficient than walking and the wind drag becomes a very minor impact, whereas gravity is a much greater force to fight against.

My point was simply that as far as making it a spectacle Scarponi's ride was probably the braver of the two - he gambled by trying to shake things up and arguably would have finished with Evans if he hadn't. It's not a criticism of Evans - as I said he is trying to win the race not the most aggressive rider award.

As for there being zero advantage in following - well aerodynamically I wouldn't argue - psychologically I think it's easier to follow than lead even on a gradient as steep as the Zonconlan.

frenchfighter

I like your 4 and 6

Can't wait for Contador to mix it up in the Giro again.

pedro118118

donrhummy wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

donrhummy wrote:

2. Obviously this is my opinion/guess but...watching Basso ride the Zoncolan like it was a 6.5% gradient while everyone else struggled was not much fun. It really felt like he easily had 1 or 2 more gears in him. Shades of 2006.

Are you watching the same Giro? He was turning himself inside out and didn't look anything like 2006.

To me he looked like he was hovering at the line when you crack and stop, but managing it well.

I don't know. I watched him in 2006 (used to be a fan of his) and the speed at which he pulled away from Evans on Zoncolan and the ease with which he did it (perfect body motion, no swinging up/down/side-side) was more like 2006 than 2009. Last year, I could see him suffering in the mountains. This year he looked calm.

Now I'm NOT saying he didn't work hard going up the mountain! Even Rasmussen worked hard going up mountains. But he definitely looked like he had another gear left there and that it was a 90-95% effort whereas everyone else looked to be at 100%.

Don't agree with you here.
I was glued to the TV screen for every m of that whole 10km climb.
You could see he had a little exta for the first 5km, as he was testing Evans, but thereafter Basso looked right on the rivet to me, especially once he'd put in the big surge to drop Evans with about 3km to go. If he had 5-10% in the tank, he would've used it to gain more time.
I would agree Evans looked in more trouble, but I think that is a combination of his ugly climbing 'style' and bigger gears

Tom Butcher

Plus it wouldn't make sense to keep something in reserve would it - it's not like Basso has the Giro won and with a rest day to follow they would all be on their limit.

Some may be able to dig deeper than others but if anything I think people who are really running on fumes have more of a expressionless look and minimise bike movement rather than grimacing and wrestling the bike.

mididoctors

donrhummy wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

3 - He's got an ugly style on the bike - I don't necessarily think he was trying any harder than anyone else - prefer the ride of Scarponi who animated the race more than Evans who followed pretty much the whole way up. Of course he's entitled to do that to try and win the race - but as a spectacle I think Scarponi contributed more.
4 - Yes and no - the super steep mountain top finishes are too predictable for me - prefer the stages where it's more unpredictable, the limestone road stages, the stages that finish after a descent, stages with a smaller climb near the finish where riders have to take risks to gain time not just rely on power to weight.

Re: Evans:

"Following" on a mountain as steep as Zoncolan gives ZERO benefit. After 14%, a bike is actually less efficient than walking and the wind drag becomes a very minor impact, whereas gravity is a much greater force to fight against.

if they keep throwing in the steep stuff into races for the spectacle (seems a trend) I wonder how long it will be until someone turns up with running combatable shoes a trots the steep stuff cyclocross style?