OT - UNITE/BA

Greg T

lost_in_thought wrote:

Perhaps I'll go on strike.

So the Soap Dodging Anti War tent city on Parliament Square has increased in size and number of benefits claimants in the last couple of weeks.

One banner always makes me smile...

Peace Strike...

Now then. I understand "Strike" to mean this:

to declare or engage in a suspension of work against (a factory, employer, industry, etc.) until certain demands are met

Now then - given that these Soap Dodgers are in effect working for the State as we are paying for them to - you know - grow awful white people dreadlocks and listen to levellers albums whilst smoking rollies and wishing they were are at the poll tax riots. Are they withdrawing their labour from the "sitting around drinking cider" industry until the war in Afghanistan ceases?

Do they march on mass from the "peace strike" tent city to do jobs? Returning later to shout things through megaphones that French School kids don't understand and no-on listens to?

Otherwise this peace strike would seem to be people who don't work sitting in a tent not working until a war that isn't going to stop anytime soon, stops.

I hope they are willing to not work and still get benefits for a long time to come.......

lost_in_thought

:evil: :x :evil: :x

greg66_tri_v2.0

Il Principe wrote:

Because we're so small all employees are acutely aware of where we stand

Are you all, like, really, really short people? So if you stand too close to a counter, the person on the other side can't see you? Is that what you mean?

Greg T

Greg66 wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Because we're so small all employees are acutely aware of where we stand

Are you all, like, really, really short people? So if you stand too close to a counter, the person on the other side can't see you? Is that what you mean?

Jash is quite stumpy in fairness....

I think he works in the confectionary industry

il_principe

Greg66 wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Because we're so small all employees are acutely aware of where we stand

Are you all, like, really, really short people? So if you stand too close to a counter, the person on the other side can't see you? Is that what you mean?

You've seen 'Being John Malkovich' right? Well it's like that. I'm the tallest by a considerable margin - hence my dual roles of 'office bully' and 'talker to tall people.'

il_principe

Greg T wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Because we're so small all employees are acutely aware of where we stand

Are you all, like, really, really short people? So if you stand too close to a counter, the person on the other side can't see you? Is that what you mean?

Jash is quite stumpy in fairness....

I think he works in the confectionary industry

Thanks Greg.

I need to avoid standing next to CP...

W1

Typical bloody ignorance of the unions - they'd cut off their nose to spite their faces. If I ran BA all the strikers would be sacked for trying to blackmail the company. Plenty of replacements out there who would be grateful for a job.

If this strike brings down BA there will be a lot of unemployed cabin crew who will have plenty of time to reflect on how their greed has now meant their home is being repossessed.

rjsterry

Not trying to have a go at all Lit; just interested who was talking from experience, and who wasn't. My pay cut has been pretty tough with the littl'un arriving in the middle of it, but I'd have been completely stuffed if made redundant; hope the new job is working out.

greg66_tri_v2.0

lost_in_thought wrote:

Completely agree re expenses, however this is rather different - I haven't explained myself very well. They get paid extra for flying, whether it's to Manchester where they won't even leave the aircraft, or to Sydney where they may have a 3-night stopover. On long-haul, their room and meals (varies whether it's all 3 or just 1 or 2) are paid for directly by the airline, the money they receive is on top of that, and they can do what they want with it - sometimes it will buy meals, but they're welcome (as most do) to get a £3 hot dog and spend the rest on a fetching hat.

Hope that's clearer.

And... it's a pretty enjoyable job.

Ok, short haul and domestic, where you fly out, clear the plane, and fly back, not so much. But if you're on long haul, you get at least a night at your destination city, as you say with pocket money and room and food paid for. Perhaps not much fun if you have a family in England, but if you're single and enjoy travel, it's (IMO) a pretty attractive "career".

Greg T

Il Principe wrote:

I need to avoid standing next to CP...

Everyone needs to avoid Standing next to CP.

Especially after net ball when he's still got his skirt on.

greg66_tri_v2.0

I should add that I find it hard to muster a huge amount of sympathy for this sort of thing. principally because I'm self employed.

So holiday = no pay. Sick = no pay. Pension? Provide it myself. Medical care? Ditto. Need a desk to work at, and a computer to work on? Buy them yourself. Need paint on the walls? Pay a decorator. C2W scheme? No sir, that's for employed people, not the likes of you.

Etc etc.

Greg T

Greg66 wrote:

I should add that I find it hard to muster a huge amount of sympathy for this sort of thing. principally because I'm self employed....

It's like a Billy Bragg song isn't it.....

lost_in_thought

rjsterry wrote:

Not trying to have a go at all Lit; just interested who was talking from experience, and who wasn't. My pay cut has been pretty tough with the littl'un arriving in the middle of it, but I'd have been completely stuffed if made redundant; hope the new job is working out.

Didn't think so for a moment! And I reckon I know more people who have been affected by the recession than people who haven't.

When there are many cabin crew out there who'd be prepared to work for far less than BA crew are getting, I really think it's idiotic to persist with striking. I'm sure there's some daft lefty law that protects them. Bloody commies.

spen666

Greg66 wrote:

I should add that I find it hard to muster a huge amount of sympathy for this sort of thing. principally because I'm self employed.

So holiday = no pay. Sick = no pay. Pension? Provide it myself. Medical care? Ditto. Need a desk to work at, and a computer to work on? Buy them yourself. Need paint on the walls? Pay a decorator. C2W scheme? No sir, that's for employed people, not the likes of you.

Etc etc.

You seem to have forgotten all the tax benefits you get by being self employed - putting personal expenses through as business ones etc

tailwindhome

A group of middle class lawyers and bankers think that the chaps who bring the tea and scones should stop being so uppity and be damned glad they even have a job.

Hmmmm!



Suprising factoid - Willie Walsh was a chief negotiator in the Irish Airline Pilots Association

tailwindhome

Greg T wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

I should add that I find it hard to muster a huge amount of sympathy for this sort of thing. principally because I'm self employed....

It's like a Billy Bragg song isn't it.....

It's posts of that quality on which a living legend is built

tgotb

Greg T wrote:

Do they march on mass from the "peace strike" tent city to do jobs? Returning later to shout things through megaphones that French School kids don't understand and no-on listens to?

I think this might actually be the case. When I pass Parl Square at 7pm they're all out with their megaphones, but at 8am there's no-one there. Now, I did wonder whether they were all in bed, but I came in late the other day and rode past at 10am. Still no-one there. Ergo, they must all have left before 8am to go to work. And working all day, presumably making a positive contribution to the economy, gives them the moral high ground from which do the megaphone thing...

always_tyred

TailWindHome wrote:

A group of middle class lawyers and bankers think that the chaps who bring the tea and scones should stop being so uppity and be damned glad they even have a job.

Hmmmm!

Suprising factoid - Willie Walsh was a chief negotiator in the Irish Airline Pilots Association

That's disingenuous. No, for my part I believe that this particular group of tea boys should be damn grateful, on the basis that:

1. They are paid 30% more than equivalent tea boys.
2. The tea company is losing vast quantities of money and has a pension deficit (including the tea boys' pensions) larger than the value of the company.
3. The tea pot makers and the tea leaf pickers and the owners of the tea plantation have all taken pay cuts.

I'm not against all tea boys, just this lot.

Willie Walsh is an attack dog, yes, but how does that change (2)? The only reason he is there is (2).

Another slight flaw in your thinking is that if a member of cabin crew is on anything above about £25k, let along £48k, thery are also middle class. Arguably achieved with rather less effort than going to law school or doing acciountancy exams. Although I grant you that operating an emergency exit and performing CPR does take some training.

tgotb

Always Tyred wrote:

Although I grant you that operating an emergency exit and performing CPR does take some training.

The extra payment awarded by some companies to fire wardens and first aiders generally amounts to less than £200 per annum, so I don't really buy the "safety" argument...

Sewinman

I pop my head back in an find its turned into the Daily Mail!

Wallace1492

Their actions will take the airline down.....

Sad state BA is in.

Well paid for their industry, great perks, but have to moan.....
Waken up and smell the coffee.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for workers rights - the right to be paid, the right to a 10 minute lunch break, the right to take time off to give birth...

il_principe

Sewinman wrote:

I pop my head back in an find its turned into the Daily Mail!

Hardly. Just getting a bit fed up with people who can't seem to face up to economic realities. Other airline staff manage, why can't BA's. Not to mention all the hardworking folk whose holidays/business trips etc will be naffed up thanks to these greedy morons. Most people are pretty thankful to have a job at the moment. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever when there are millions of people out of work.

mcj78

I always found BA staff (ok, not all of them) to be the Pam Ann sort who always seemed to be too busy prancing around appearing fabulous to actually do something productive like get me a beer, the sooner they realize what they're doing to the company and it's reputation within the industry & what their alternative carreer options are (move company, start at the bottom on less cash, less perks etc.) the better...

Like the earlier comment re. celebrating going on strike - I found this crazy, their pay must certainly be good enough to see them through a series of strikes, if my union were to declare a strike i'd be counting the cost nervously.

Sack 'em all, replace them with better looking, less arsey replacements who will appreciate the fact they have a reasonably well paid job for doing little else than be polite & serve drinks.

further

BA has a terrible record on industrial relations. Sack Willy Walsh!

Wallace1492

further wrote:

BA has a terrible record on industrial relations. Sack Willy Walsh!

Yes, terrible that they have the best paid cabin crew in the land, with perks all over the shop.

We pay for these!!

Get cheap labour in - I would rather have no free g&t and a cheaper seat.
They only spend the extra dosh on make up..... and is there such a thing as a straight cabin boy?

further

Get cheap labour in - I would rather have no free g&t and a cheaper seat.
They only spend the extra dosh on make up..... and is there such a thing as a straight cabin boy?

You sure you're not on BA's negotiating team? :shock:

Noone wants to lose money and risk retribution by striking but it is the only power staff have in the face of attitudes like this.

asprilla

mcj78 wrote:

I always found BA staff (ok, not all of them) to be the Pam Ann sort who always seemed to be too busy prancing around appearing fabulous to actually do something productive like get me a beer, the sooner they realize what they're doing to the company and it's reputation within the industry & what their alternative carreer options are (move company, start at the bottom on less cash, less perks etc.) the better....

This. Although not as bad as US carriers, they are pretty poor.

I had had some excellent service from BA staff, but majority of it has been mediocre or poor, especially considering the premium you pay for that service. On almost every occasion this poor service has been down to the manner or shirking or responsibility by the individual responsible rather than a company policy or similar.

If it wasn't for the fact that they have a stranglehold on some of the destinations I want to go to I would have stopped using them years ago.

hmbadger

spen666 wrote:

Greg T wrote:

MadammeMarie wrote:

+1 and of course the strikers were warned BEFORE they went on strike of the consequences - ie they would lose their perks if they went on strike.

And so they should just cave in to that sort of blackmail? Christ, wouldn't like to be beside you in the trenches.

Can't believe some of the stuff in this thread.

Stevo_666

Greg T wrote:

I've got to fly to Hong Kong the week after next - would have flown BA, now flying Quantas.

Cut your own throats...

They appear to have the best pay and conditions in the business - I'm not getting it.

Greg, the BA website is confirming which flights they are running up to 9th June now. I'm off to HK this Sunday on BA (just before the strike starts) but am coming back on the 27th while it's still on. Flights are confirmed, but if I get stuck in HK for a few days, that's just too bad :P

Wallace1492

further wrote:

Get cheap labour in - I would rather have no free g&t and a cheaper seat.
They only spend the extra dosh on make up..... and is there such a thing as a straight cabin boy?

You sure you're not on BA's negotiating team? :shock:

Noone wants to lose money and risk retribution by striking but it is the only power staff have in the face of attitudes like this.

Attitudes like what? Modernising the airline in hugely changed circumstances? It's losing a fortune, needs to cut costs, update practices, sadly that may mean job cuts, buy hey ho, lets get real.