WIGGINS'S GIRO - A FULL DRESS REHEARSAL...

petejuk

Had Wiggins not crashed, he would have been up there with the other contenders. Finding himself in this position may however be advantageous, since he has little pressure on his shoulders to fight for the lead. It means also there's little pressure on the team to bury themselves to keep him in contention. Don't forget this is only a week in- those who have kept their powder dry could benefit as things go seriously skyward later.

cyclemambo

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Who exactly over rated them? Was it the people calling them over rated now?

How about Sky themselves, reports, forums and cycling media, oh ye they are going to win the tour de france?

DavMartinR

avoidingmyphd wrote:

DavMartinR wrote:

I think Wiggins needs to do something before the end of the Giro, just for the public and media to kep faith with him as a contender in the TdF.

I'm pretty sure that this is not one of the criteria he is using to judge his build up.

No he won't. But the media can be very fickle and if they don't see anything from him before july,they will not waste any time in putting him down as an outsider rather than a contender.Then all the UK press is going to go with front covers of Lance agian.

Tom Butcher

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Have a look at their results and decide for yourself. Radioshack have a stellar line up. Skys is mediocre. Compare like with like if you want to compare with other teams.

For a team set up quickly and given the riders available to hire (bearing in mind they eliminated many potential hires for failing their hiring policy) they have had a pretty good season.

Well they blew a lot of the budget on EBH and his lack of wins is just bad luck - they also reportedly paid over the odds for Wiggins and the wisdom of that will emerge in July - anything less than a podium is going to be disappointing.

You can argue their roster is mediocre but why is that - did they not have the budget, did they not spend it wisely or did they have more restrictive criteria (nationality, blood passport) which limited their choice more than some other teams.

Rodrego Hernandez

Limited riders out of contract to hire, at least riders that were clean enough to hire.

Not sure why having facebook pages and a strong media presence means that they have hyped themselves up? They are sponsored by 2 media companies so please don't act surprised at the high profile they have.

They didn't say Wiggins will win the tour, he has a chance but they can only get him to the start line as fat as possible and with the best support they can manage. Plenty of variables will affect wiggins podium hopes, such as the route but he is still the best british chance for a tour win.

wicked

cyclemambo wrote:

Are you guys all deluded, Sky are not performing well by anyones standards, over rated team and will be shown up in the Le Tour , Wiggins individual time trial the only good thing that has happened to the team so far.

Please feel free to post a link that quote wiggo saying he was going to win the giro. You can also show me where sky said they were going to win the tour this year as well. I seem to remember DB saying the AIM was to win the tour in 5 years. The giro (sky's first GT) is training for the tour as he stated before the race began. He did say that if he was leading he would have to defend with respect to the race but he has got that problem has he.

What exactly did you expect from sky this year? If you take katusha in their debut year they did not exactly pull up trees and their budget is bigger that sky's is. The other debut team cervelo had a fantastic debut which they themselves cannot now live up to. If you think a team can just buy lots of riders from scratch and go out and win everthing then you expect a lot!

Tom Butcher

Wiggo did say he planned to stay up in the GC for a bit and in his words go "shoulder to shoulder" with the GC contenders in the high mountains - and that there would come a time he'd pull himself out of the GC rather than hurt himself for July. So no he didn't say he'd win the Giro but he didn't give the impression he planned to lose time on the first medium mountain finish either. I suppose wait and see - if he isn't up there at the weekend then it's not the end of the world but it will be behind his stated aim.

As for Sky in general - whether they hyped themselves up there were a few on here who certainly hyped them up before the racing started and a couple of early wins in the minor tours did prompt some told you so posting so when they suffer a relatively poor run in major races it's not surprising a few others are quick to point that out.

The style of their PR does make them an easy target too - all the inner chimp and marginal gains stuff sounds good but you do need the results to back it up. When the world champion mocks them with the phrase "so called super team" you know that it isn't just a few posters on an internet forum who think they have disappointed so far.

thamacdaddy

Tom Butcher wrote:

Wiggo did say he planned to stay up in the GC for a bit and in his words go "shoulder to shoulder" with the GC contenders in the high mountains

You are right he did say that, then he had two stages of being involved in crashes, one of which it looks like he hit the deck pretty hard. Fair to say the gameplan changes when you lose time in that way?

The style of their PR does make them an easy target too - all the inner chimp and marginal gains stuff sounds good but you do need the results to back it up.

However this wasn't necessarily their PR all of which has actually been less over the top (check the videos on their site etc). The media here however pulled out of sorts and the marginal gains stuff is from their BC training techniques all of which I am pretty sure everyone can agree worked on the track. I believe they said they would take these techniques over to road rather than "We will win everything because of...".

But you are right there are people here who like the team, I am one of them, and others that do not. A high number of those I expect dislike the PR machine around them and would much prefer a team to go out win and do the talking on the road, and that's very noble and all that but maybe the PR and profile got them the races they wanted, fairly or otherwise. I wouldn't be so harsh as a few on here they have some decent results and have figured in quite a few races (visible), the season is far from over, neither side of the argument can really stake their claim yet.

Pross

cyclemambo wrote:

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Who exactly over rated them? Was it the people calling them over rated now?

How about Sky themselves, reports, forums and cycling media, oh ye they are going to win the tour de france?

Who said they're going to win the Tour? Sky have said it's their AIM to have a British Tour winner in the next five years, you appear to have put your own slant on that!

Did Wiggo lose more time yesterday? There were 4 or 5 riders in the Sastre group and 3 in the front group (Henderson, Sutton and Barry?).

It hasn't been a great season for them but they still have more wins than some established teams, they've done well in TTTs and they have been pretty active in the Giro over the last few days with riders in the main breaks that have only been pegged back with a few kms to go. Yes, they have been over hyped in some circles but some on here seem to criticise them for their mistakes far more than other teams in a similar position (e.g. see how much criticism there has been for Wiggins losing time compared to Cervelo / Sastre)

butcher_boy

Imagine a Team sponsor hyping it's own team to ensure maximum publicity :shock:


Truely Shocking, as I thought they paid all that money just because they liked men on bikes :roll:

pedro118118

Sky haven't been as all-conquering as many [unrealistically] expected them to be.

But then again, they are a new team (allbeit with experienced riders), put together in a short space of time, with only a limited pool of riders to chose from. There are other considerations too - a British bias and a whiter-than-white reputation.

I would expect Sky to strengthen their roster over the coming years, as and when the right riders become available.

Wiggins is taking a huge risk by putting his entire season on the Tour - but it's perhaps a little unfair to judge them until the big objective has played out. The Spring Classics campaign was effectively kaiboshed by EBH's achilles problem. Despite the good performances by Flecha.

Aside from Wiggo, there are not other genuine stage racers (except perhaps Lovqvist) to lead a challenge on GC at other major Tours. Unlike squads like Liquigas, Shack, Saxo Bank........even Astana to a certain extent, who have a much stronger stage racing pedigree and strength in depth overall.

What I would agree on, is that if Wiggo bombs at the Tour (ie outside the top 5), the season will be considered a failiure.

Tom Butcher

I couldn't have put it better Pedro - sums it up perfectly.

sherer

I sometimes wonder why Sky even sponsor the team. They don't have the rights to show many races at all just the Tour of Langkowi I think and can't show the tour. not sure if they have a deal for any highlights ?

They don't even do any magazine style shows on the team either

intothe12

I think this all needs to be put in context...

Sky have an impressive setup, buses, bikes, very slick look, etc.. and some good riders. I like EBH, Flecha...

I think the reason Sky have rubbed people up the wrong way is due to the way they went about hiring the likes of Wiggo and swift that were still in contract with other teams, the “will he won’t he” tug of war that went on with Garmin & Vaughters just got on people’e tits. People just got fed up of the whole nonsense.

Added to that, the Oscar Wilde, Cravat wearing, dress sense that Wiggo has is clearly a crime against fashion and makes me want to punch him in the face. All in all, he is a very good tester, and had a great tour last year, although he is unproven as a consistent GC contender at any level (small stages and large tours), and I fear that he will go the way of CVV or other nearly-Tour men. If he focused on getting some serious small stage races under his belt, and graduated from there, well fair enough, the respect level would climb, but thinking he can focus on the Tour after one year is a bit much in my book.

Lastly, the other reason sky rub me up the wrong way is that I don’t like yates. I dont like where he came from, and when I hear him on the phone being interviewed on Eurosport he sounds like he is on some mushroom fuelled psychedelic trip.

finchy

Sky haven't live up to the media hype, but as Pedro says, that's only to be expected of a completely new team.

Still, Het Volk and stages in the Giro and Paris-Nice are not to be sniffed at, and when you look at big wins, arguably only Astana, Columbia, Saxo Bank and Liquigas are doing better.

flattythehurdler

I'm sorry, but a top twenty finish in the Tour is an outstanding result that a british cycling entusiast could only have dreamed about a couple of yeqars ago. New team, uneven playing field, they are doing OK. If wiggins is in the top ten, that would be a great effort.

intothe12

flattythehurdler wrote:

I'm sorry, but a top twenty finish in the Tour is an outstanding result that a british cycling entusiast could only have dreamed about a couple of yeqars ago. New team, uneven playing field, they are doing OK. If wiggins is in the top ten, that would be a great effort.

total bullsh*t. It is that kind of mentality that keeps british riders from becoming great. The brits focus too much on the commonwealth games, olympics or some other sh*te and think that a gold medal is the be all and end all of cycling sport. For some sports, the olympics is the pinnacle, for cycling, it is not even in the top ten.. For all that Chav annoys me, he is a winner, with a winners mentality amd he has woken up to this fact...

British riders need to expect more, and thankfully you see a few coming through, racing on the continent, Team sky et al.. with a new mind set.

Pross

intothe12 wrote:

flattythehurdler wrote:

I'm sorry, but a top twenty finish in the Tour is an outstanding result that a british cycling entusiast could only have dreamed about a couple of yeqars ago. New team, uneven playing field, they are doing OK. If wiggins is in the top ten, that would be a great effort.

total bullsh*t. It is that kind of mentality that keeps british riders from becoming great. The brits focus too much on the commonwealth games, olympics or some other sh*te and think that a gold medal is the be all and end all of cycling sport. For some sports, the olympics is the pinnacle, for cycling, it is not even in the top ten.. For all that Chav annoys me, he is a winner, with a winners mentality amd he has woken up to this fact...

British riders need to expect more, and thankfully you see a few coming through, racing on the continent, Team sky et al.. with a new mind set.

+1 and to me this is where Sky's performance will be all important. From my point of view helping to bring through British youngsters to compete in the GTs and Classics is far more important than their first season results and I think they should be judged on that long term success. Wiggins was more important to them as a name people will recognise than as a potential short term winner IMHO. For far too long our most talented young riders have had to carve a path through the European system with little support or settle for racing as a pro on the British circuit. Sky's vision of developing British talent and having a clean team is laudible even if they have made a few mistakes in their first season.

flattythehurdler

Pross wrote:

intothe12 wrote:

flattythehurdler wrote:

I'm sorry, but a top twenty finish in the Tour is an outstanding result that a british cycling entusiast could only have dreamed about a couple of yeqars ago. New team, uneven playing field, they are doing OK. If wiggins is in the top ten, that would be a great effort.

total bullsh*t. It is that kind of mentality that keeps british riders from becoming great. The brits focus too much on the commonwealth games, olympics or some other sh*te and think that a gold medal is the be all and end all of cycling sport. For some sports, the olympics is the pinnacle, for cycling, it is not even in the top ten.. For all that Chav annoys me, he is a winner, with a winners mentality amd he has woken up to this fact...

British riders need to expect more, and thankfully you see a few coming through, racing on the continent, Team sky et al.. with a new mind set.

+1 and to me this is where Sky's performance will be all important. From my point of view helping to bring through British youngsters to compete in the GTs and Classics is far more important than their first season results and I think they should be judged on that long term success. Wiggins was more important to them as a name people will recognise than as a potential short term winner IMHO. For far too long our most talented young riders have had to carve a path through the European system with little support or settle for racing as a pro on the British circuit. Sky's vision of developing British talent and having a clean team is laudible even if they have made a few mistakes in their first season.

Er Nothing I said contradicts this. Do you really think that a top ten tour finish is "total bullshit" to coin your phrase?

luckao

sherer wrote:

I sometimes wonder why Sky even sponsor the team. They don't have the rights to show many races at all just the Tour of Langkowi I think and can't show the tour. not sure if they have a deal for any highlights ?

They don't even do any magazine style shows on the team either

I remember hearing that the Olympics is a big motivation for them. Again, not showing it, but they'll be plastered all over.

Pross

flattythehurdler wrote:

Pross wrote:

intothe12 wrote:

flattythehurdler wrote:

I'm sorry, but a top twenty finish in the Tour is an outstanding result that a british cycling entusiast could only have dreamed about a couple of yeqars ago. New team, uneven playing field, they are doing OK. If wiggins is in the top ten, that would be a great effort.

total bullsh*t. It is that kind of mentality that keeps british riders from becoming great. The brits focus too much on the commonwealth games, olympics or some other sh*te and think that a gold medal is the be all and end all of cycling sport. For some sports, the olympics is the pinnacle, for cycling, it is not even in the top ten.. For all that Chav annoys me, he is a winner, with a winners mentality amd he has woken up to this fact...

British riders need to expect more, and thankfully you see a few coming through, racing on the continent, Team sky et al.. with a new mind set.

? I was just "+1ing" the comments about lack of focus on major cycling events.

+1 and to me this is where Sky's performance will be all important. From my point of view helping to bring through British youngsters to compete in the GTs and Classics is far more important than their first season results and I think they should be judged on that long term success. Wiggins was more important to them as a name people will recognise than as a potential short term winner IMHO. For far too long our most talented young riders have had to carve a path through the European system with little support or settle for racing as a pro on the British circuit. Sky's vision of developing British talent and having a clean team is laudible even if they have made a few mistakes in their first season.

Er Nothing I said contradicts this. Do you really think that a top ten tour finish is "total bullshit" to coin your phrase?

? I was just "+1ing" the comments about lack of focus on major cycling events.
Total bullshit wasn't my phrase.

Tom Butcher

flattythehurdler wrote:

I'm sorry, but a top twenty finish in the Tour is an outstanding result that a british cycling entusiast could only have dreamed about a couple of yeqars ago. New team, uneven playing field, they are doing OK. If wiggins is in the top ten, that would be a great effort.

Taking a rider who finished fourth last year and achieving a top 10 this year wouldn't be a great effort. Seeing as Wiggins is a big money signing aiming at the Tour anything less than last year is going to be disappointing - for him as much as anyone else.

Abdoujaparov

Luckao wrote:

sherer wrote:

I sometimes wonder why Sky even sponsor the team. They don't have the rights to show many races at all just the Tour of Langkowi I think and can't show the tour. not sure if they have a deal for any highlights ?

They don't even do any magazine style shows on the team either

I remember hearing that the Olympics is a big motivation for them. Again, not showing it, but they'll be plastered all over.

One of the reasons Sky sponsored the team is because it will give them coverage on Eurosport and ITV 4. Viewers of those two channels in particular are important advertising targets for Sky.

iainf72

Abdoujaparov wrote:

One of the reasons Sky sponsored the team is because it will give them coverage on Eurosport and ITV 4. Viewers of those two channels in particular are important advertising targets for Sky.

According to the boys on the Real Peloton podcast, Sky thought they'd be able to nab some of the cycling rights, but it didn't work out as they expected. I'm not sure on the logic but they seemed to indicate they'd spoken to someone in the know.

Pross

I can see them targetting ITV viewers but surely most ES viewers (in the UK at least) are already Sky customers? I'd have thought that, like any sponsorship, it is just getting your name seen by as many people as possible. Plus cycling is big in Italy and Sky are apparently trying to grow their audience there.

RichN95.

Pross wrote:

I can see them targetting ITV viewers but surely most ES viewers (in the UK at least) are already Sky customers?

Not at all. Well at least not fully Sky customers. Many, like me, are Virigin customers with Sky channels. It's the Sky+ HD platform that is their main product, rather than the channels - although Sky Sports is obviously important too.

There's the Sky Italia platform in Italy, they have a presence in Germany, and I expect they'd like to have a Sky platform throughout Europe.

Abdoujaparov

A lot of eurosport viewers don't have Sky Sports so there's value there. If, say, you've got the basic Sky package and you're the sort of person who watches eurosport, Sky would probably think you could be convinced to upgrade to the Sky Sports package.

Anyway, I'd have thought Sky will keep trying to get more cycling rights - their sponsorship of the team is based on their belief that pro cycling is a growth business so you'd have thought they'll try to get more involved.

Pross

If Sky were serious about getting cycling rights they would throw enough money at it to ensure they did as they have done with so many other sports. I suspect it may be a case of "it would be nice to have" but isn't top of their priorities.

Apologies, I'd forgotten about Virgin as, living in the hinterlands (i.e. 3 miles from the centre of Newport) their coverage hasn't extended here yet :shock: I think you can also get ES as an extra (pay) channel on Freeview :?

iainf72

Pross wrote:

If Sky were serious about getting cycling rights they would throw enough money at it to ensure they did as they have done with so many other sports. I suspect it may be a case of "it would be nice to have" but isn't top of their priorities.

The biggest races can't go on pay-platforms though, so that's a big problem for them. I reckon they probably just had an oversight and thought they'd be able to solve the problem with money but it didn't work.

I wish I could figure out what their commercial aims are. They only ever seem to say fluffy things like "we want to get more people on their bikes" etc, which really don't make any sense. Makes me think it's a vanity project like Astana or Katusha. And that's fine, there have been plenty of those in cycling.

Kléber

James Murdoch is a big cycling fan so the team has the whiff of a play-thing. He runs BSKYB, the UK operation that is behind the team.

In backing the road team, they also get access to the track team in time for 2012. Whilst the Olympics will be on the BBC, the riders will have discreet Sky logoes and will be featuring on Sky, giving exclusive interviews and more. The UCI have moved the goalposts here though in recent days.

Similarly, I'm sure some execs are enjoying listening to hearing Rai staff talk about Sky in their broadcasts, it's like asking Coca-Cola to name drop Pepsi, Berlusconi and Murdoch hate each other, big rivals.

All that said, I'm not sure if the team makes financial sense, it has a colossal budget but can't reach a lot of its target audience. In many cases sponsoring a cycling team is good value for the sponsor, the coverage can exceed the cost of the team. But in this case, I'm not so convinced.