Freire & Watson

emadden

From G. Watsons Website:

Fred R. - 05/10/2010:
Dear Graham: I remember in late-2001 when you were quoted in either Procycling or CycleSport, levying a rather harsh judgment on the "worthiness" of Oscar Freire's 2nd World Championship. You seemed to be complaining that he wasn't the kind of rider you thought worthy of wearing the jersey because he was invisible for most of the season, but could somehow find a way to pop-up and take the big prize from whichever riders you considered more-deserving. I'm sorry I can't quote you exactly, but I'll never forget the shock I felt because I thought you wouldn't want to be on record openly disparaging a rider whose image you'd need to capture throughout the following year... Maybe you thought Freire would never READ what you said, since it was published in English... Regardless, do you still play favorites amongst the riders, or do you now strive for more neutrality in your public statements and try to limit the perception that you favor any one particular athlete, or that you hold someone in contempt based purely on their ability to peak for one particular race? Thanks! FF

05/11/2010:
Strong words Fred - and you have a good memory! Freire won this year's Milan-San Remo, and I had the exact same thoughts as 2001, if that was when it was... Have you seen Freire since San Remo..? No. He's a boring cyclist who hides away all year then pops up and wins - and wins well. My comments in 2001 compared Freire to champions like Eddy Merckx and Rik Van Looy and others who won three world titles as well as multiple Classics and stage-races. Freire does not have a place in that world...but watch for him in Geelong this October! GW

I think its a bit harsh on Freire - he's not a one race wonder, as some of Watson's other favourites are.... Im wondering what he has done to piss off Graham.

Was that your question Frenchfighter?


Freire's Palmares:

1997
2nd U23 Road Race World Championships

1998
1st Stage 1 Vuelta a Castilla y León
3rd Spanish National Road Race Championships

1999
1st Road Race World Championship

2000
1st Stage 2 Vuelta a España
1st Stage 4 Vuelta a España
1st Stage 1 Tirreno-Adriatico
1st Stage 6 Tirreno-Adriatico
1st Stage 3 Vuelta a Aragon
1st Stage 4 Vuelta a Aragon

1st Points classification

1st Stage 3 Giro della Provincia di Lucca
1st Stage 3 Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana
1st Trofeo Mallorca
3rd Road Race World Championship
3rd Milan-Sanremo

2001
1st Road Race World Championship
1st Stage 5 Vuelta a Burgos

1st Points classification

1st Stage 4 Deutschland Tour


2002
1st Stage 2 Tour de France
1st Manacor-Porto Cristo
1st Cala Rajada – Cala Millor


2003
1st Overall Giro della Provincia di Lucca

1st Stage 1
1st Stage 2

1st Stage 1 Vuelta a Andalucía
1st Stage 2 Vuelta a Andalucía

1st Points classification

1st Stage 7 Tirreno-Adriatico
1st Stage 5 Volta a Catalunya


2004
1st Road Race World Championship
1st Milan-Sanremo
1st Stage 6 Vuelta a España
1st Stage 3 Tirreno-Adriatico
1st Trofeo Luis Puig
1st Trofeo Cala Millor – Cala Rajada


2005
1st Overall Tirenno-Adriatico

1st Stage 2
1st Stage 3
1st Stage 4
1st Points classification

1st Brabantse Pijl
1st Trofeo Alcudia
1st Trofeo Mallorca


2006
1st Stage 5 Tour de France
1st Stage 9 Tour de France
1st Stage 7 Tour de Suisse
1st Stage 4 Vuelta al País Vasco
1st Stage 3 Tirenno-Adriatico
1st Vattenfall Cyclassics
1st Brabantse Pijl


2007
1st Milan-Sanremo
1st Stage 2 Vuelta a España
1st Stage 5 Vuelta a España
1st Stage 6 Vuelta a España

Held Gold jersey wearer From Stages 2-3

1st Trofeo Mallorca
1st Overall Vuelta a Andalucía

1st Stage 2
1st Stage 5
1st Points classification

1st Brabantse Pijl
2nd Vattenfall Cyclassics
3rd Gent-Wevelgem
3rd Paris-Tours


2008
1st Stage 14 Tour de France

1st Points Classification

1st Stage 11 Vuelta a España
1st Gent-Wevelgem
1st Stage 1 Tour de Suisse
1st Stage 1 Tirreno-Adriatico
1st Stage 4 Tirreno-Adriatico
1st Stage 6 Tirreno-Adriatico

1st Points classification

2009
1st Stage 2 Tour de Romandie
1st Stage 5 Tour de Romandie


2010
1st Milan-Sanremo
1st Trofeo Calla Millor
1st Stage 2 Vuelta a Andalucía
1st Stage 3 Vuelta a Andalucía

afx237vi

He's a boring cyclist who hides away all year then pops up and wins - and wins well.

:roll:

frenchfighter

No, not me. A welll put question by Fred. I agree that his words are indeed harsh as Freire is a real professional and has been performing at the top end for over a decade. He has the big wins in his palmares in addition to countless top 5s in quality races. He may not be in the spotlight much, but that doesn't really matter, he most likely prefers it that way.

RichN95.

emadden wrote:

2006
1st Stage 7 Tour de Suisse

He's not boring just for this win alone - and how he launched his winning attack.

(Sadly this is just a 8 second clip)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-araCVvDmWU

afx237vi

Plus he won Tirreno Adriatico OVERALL. How many other sprinters have won a stage race of that calibre?

frenchfighter

RichN95 wrote:

emadden wrote:

2006
1st Stage 7 Tour de Suisse

He's not boring just for this win alone - and how he launched his winning attack.

(Sadly this is just a 8 second clip)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-araCVvDmWU

Wow, that is seriously cool.

Along the same lines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIg834_mvIE
And not a hop but one of my favourite winning attacks. This was after he had got floored from the dog (you can see the raw road rash):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPQZgNk_kPM

emadden

Yup...Watson must have a long-running beef with Freire

andyp

Who gives a toss what Graham Watson thinks? For a photographer he has an ego the size of a Texan ranch. All he does is sit on the back of a motorbike and take photos, it's hardly rocket science.

secretsqirrel

andyp wrote:

Who gives a toss what Graham Watson thinks? For a photographer he has an ego the size of a Texan ranch. All he does is sit on the back of a motorbike and take photos, it's hardly rocket science.

^
What he said. Just an opinionated picture-taker, who needs guys like Freire more than they need him.

luckao

If that's the case, I'm sure a lot of cyclists wish they were as "boring" as Freire.

He can also have "funniest Milan-San Remo finish" on his Palmares.

rick_chasey

Freire is a fucking legend.

3 Worlds and 3 San-Remos, with a whole bunch of other wins including the green jersey?

The story Tankink told post 2010 San-Remo where he saw Freire completely in his own world, totally unconcerned with what was occuring for the first 5 or so hours, before asking how he was doing, hearing him complaining that his legs hurt a bit, before Tankink mentioned that probably everyone else's legs hurt too, was my favourite.

Freire then plants himself 15 places or so from the front, stays there for the next hour, while Boonen et all yo-yoed through the peleton, up the Cipressa and Poggio, before sprinting for victory.

And he used to train with a pump gaffa taped to his colnago frame.

Fucking legend.

ynyswen24

Rick Chasey wrote:

Freire is a ******* legend.

3 Worlds and 3 San-Remos, with a whole bunch of other wins including the green jersey?

The story Tankink told post 2010 San-Remo where he saw Freire completely in his own world, totally unconcerned with what was occuring for the first 5 or so hours, before asking how he was doing, hearing him complaining that his legs hurt a bit, before Tankink mentioned that probably everyone else's legs hurt too, was my favourite.

Freire then plants himself 15 places or so from the front, stays there for the next hour, while Boonen et all yo-yoed through the peloton, up the Cipressa and Poggio, before sprinting for victory.

And he used to train with a pump gaffa taped to his colnago frame.

******* legend.

+1

apparently he regularly gets lost on training rides when he's at home and has to phone someone to come and find him.
You get the impression he's a nice guy and not an egomaniac.

RichN95.

ynyswen24 wrote:

+1

apparently he regularly gets lost on training rides when he's at home and has to phone someone to come and find him.
You get the impression he's a nice guy and not an egomaniac.

He's also known for turning up at races and then realising he's left his shoes at the hotel. He did it at Milan-San Remo this year (he remembered one of them), and of course, he won.

ynyswen24

I don't know if he still wears that white soup bowl motorbike helmet, but you could always recognise Graham Watson at races. So I always used to shout out his name when I saw him at various races "GRAHAM! OVER HERE! OI, WATSON!" that kind of thing
cue confused looks from him at the Wincanton, Leeds Classic, Ditchling in the 94 tour, Kellogs etc...happy days

Bronzie

Have you seen Freire since San Remo..?

Mr Watson seems to have a very selective memory. Freire was very evident at Gent Wevelgem although he ran out of gas in the finale.

Maybe not the most exciting rider to watch, but sitting in the bunch and timing your effort to precision is what it takes to win bike races at any level.

moray_gub

andyp wrote:

Who gives a toss what Graham Watson thinks? For a photographer he has an ego the size of a Texan ranch. All he does is sit on the back of a motorbike and take photos, it's hardly rocket science.

Quite a few it would seem.

Bronzie

Moray Gub wrote:

Quite a few it would seem.

But I strongly doubt Mr Freire would be among them

calvjones

I agree with Graham. I mean think of all those other M-SR and flat World Championship winners who've won numerous Ardenne Classics up the Cauberg and Huy, whilst Freire can only labour away to a handful of top-tens.

No? Oh right.

rick_chasey

calvjones wrote:

I agree with Graham. I mean think of all those other M-SR and flat World Championship winners who've won numerous Ardenne Classics up the Cauberg and Huy, whilst Freire can only labour away to a handful of top-tens.

No? Oh right.

calvjones

Great rider, granted, but not won Amstel or Fleche I think?

2LBL + MSR + 2WC > 3MSR + 3WC

:?: probably, yes.

So Oscar's not quite as good as arguably the most adaptable rider of the last 15yrs.

Lightweight

mpd62

he's not bad for a rider who's had to limit his training over the years dew to a back problem

timoid.

afx237vi wrote:

He's a boring cyclist who hides away all year then pops up and wins - and wins well.

:roll:

Its hard to believe someone has so little grasp of irony.

timoid.

frenchfighter wrote:

And not a hop but one of my favourite winning attacks. This was after he had got floored from the dog (you can see the raw road rash):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPQZgNk_kPM

That was some classy racing. Absolutely pwned the other three.

Dgh

Freire's top class. It's a pity the Spanish seem to under-value him and prefer Valverde. OK, some will say the World's is only a one-day race, but like the Tour is the one stage race that tops any other, the Worlds is the top one-day race. And the 1999 win in particular was great stuff, esp the surprise/admiration in the commentators' voices.

Hinault, Coppi and Armstrong only managed one each, Bartali, Anquetil, Indurain and Kelly not even that, and the only other people to match his record are Merckx, Van Steenbergen and Binda. In fact, ith his bronze in 2000, Freire's record is better than Merckx's!

Add in 3 Msr's and a green jersey, that's not a bad palmares.

rick_chasey

Dgh wrote:

Freire's top class. It's a pity the Spanish seem to under-value him and prefer Valverde. OK, some will say the World's is only a one-day race, but like the Tour is the one stage race that tops any other, the Worlds is the top one-day race. And the 1999 win in particular was great stuff, esp the surprise/admiration in the commentators' voices.

Hinault, Coppi and Armstrong only managed one each, Bartali, Anquetil, Indurain and Kelly not even that, and the only other people to match his record are Merckx, Van Steenbergen and Binda. In fact, ith his bronze in 2000, Freire's record is better than Merckx's!

Add in 3 Msr's and a green jersey, that's not a bad palmares.

What is perhaps interesting is that he never strings performances together in the way, say, Boonen or Cancellara have done.

As such you always feel he has more to give in terms of victories, which can be a little frustrating.

He's certainly very unusual.

Tim Farr

What a disappointing viewpoint from Graham Watson. Agreed not up there with Eddy Merckx and one or two others - but what a fantastic palmares; this is the age of specialism in cycling a la Lance and the TdeF - so what's wrong with three rainbow jerseys and three Milan- San Remos? and all the other top wins. And he's done it his way - a Cantabrian riding for a Dutch team; a man who has struggled with career threatening back problems. He's a star.

dulldave

Yeah imagine that Graham. A rider who only appears at one race a year, wins it and then disappears. Who's his favourite rider again?

I stopped following Watson on Twitter because he spouts the biggest load of pi5h about cycling. I couldn't take any more of it. His photos are pretty formulaic as well. I don't think he really captures the cruel beauty of cycle racing. He just takes nice piccies.

intothe12

I used to think Watsons books were very good, I had a few from back in the day 1980's & 90's, Campag Delta brakes en-masse. Its was only recently that I read them again with fresh eyes and read the captions did I come to the realisiation that he speaks utter sh*te.

And seeing that post about Freire. Well IMO Watson can go fu*k right off. For me Freire is one of the best all round riders in the bunch who can climb as well as get the 11 sprocket moving something awful too. I would have thought that Watson had more cop-on that to bad mouth they guys that allow him put food on his table.

mididoctors

He is a good technical photographer but recently everybody has an opinion... I guess that because racing has become divisive for some reason

intothe12

mididoctors wrote:

He is a good technical photographer but recently everybody has an opinion... I guess that because racing has become divisive for some reason

I dont think it is becasue racing has become divisive. I think it is becasue more riders offer their opinion on pretty much everything (email, blogs, twitter, etc...) as such fans are closer to the riders and there is less mystery surrounding them. the same goes for Watson...

it probably comes down to the old saying about It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt

blim

I stopped following Watson on Twitter because he spouts the biggest load of pi5h about cycling. I couldn't take any more of it. His photos are pretty formulaic as well. I don't think he really captures the cruel beauty of cycle racing. He just takes nice piccies.

absolutely. He's taken some classic pics in his time but now looks very staid compared to the Rouleur photographers.

In Cycle Sport he says this year's cobbled classics were dull: as someone who stood by the roadside at Flanders, I disagree. Surprised Lance's appearance at the Ronde didn't change his mind...