Bike accident - legal question
il_principe
Posts: 9,155
Sorry guys, need some help here. After my bike crash I had instructed a solicitors to move ahead with my claim. Before signing the Conditional Fee Agreement I discovered that I was covered for legal expenses through my home contents insurance. My insurers will only handle my claim if I use one of their solicitors. My question is, if the firm I've been using do not possess a CFA signed by me, am I within my rights to instruct them that I no longer want to use them? I was quite happy with them, but would rather ensure that I am fully covered should my claim go to court and fail!
Thanks in advance peeps!
Thanks in advance peeps!
- 2023 Vielo V+1
- 2022 Canyon Aeroad CFR
- 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX
- Strava
- On the Strand
- Crown Stables
0
Comments
-
[dangerously slightly informed not-lawyer]
Possibly not - you certainly seem to have entered into a verbal contract, and your conduct to date may make the existence of that contract relatively easy to establish.
[/dangerously slightly informed not-lawyer]0 -
Mmmm this is what worries me. I feel pretty bad about dropping them but have little choice really. I've not signed anything though and correspondence has been all done over the phone. If this ends up with me owing them money then that would suck!
- 2023 Vielo V+1
- 2022 Canyon Aeroad CFR
- 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX
- Strava
- On the Strand
- Crown Stables
0 -
You can disinstruct them at any time without explanation. Will you be required to pay their fees to date? I would have thought that if you give them an explanation of why you don't want to continue using them, they'll accept the position. They may ask for your insurers' details so that they can contact them and discuss the option of continuing to act for you, even though they aren't a preferred legal supplier. If they do get arsey with you and demand payment of their fees, I suggest you point out that they ought to have advised you at the outset to check whether you had legal expenses insurance. In reality if they've just written a few letters / made a few calls, they'll probably just write it off.0
-
Yes, lawyers love working for free<a>road</a>0
-
el_presidente wrote:Yes, lawyers love working for a fee
fixed itNothing in life can not be improved with either monkeys, pirates or ninjas
4560 -
But if I've not signed an agreement then what can they do? To be fair I'm not sure they've done much except chase me for the CFA anyway.
- 2023 Vielo V+1
- 2022 Canyon Aeroad CFR
- 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX
- Strava
- On the Strand
- Crown Stables
0 -
<notalawyer>
It is likely and reasonable for the solicitors that have been so-far acting on your behalf to want payment for the work they have completed to-date. They would normally be looking to recover their fees from the completion of the case.
It is also unlikely that your insurers would want to settle this previous bill as it has nothing to do with them, possibly arguing (reasonably) that you should have started your action through them in the first instance.
It may be worthwhile to contact your current solicitors to see what (if any) fee is payable if you back out now. Once you have established this, you will be clearer on what your options are.
</notalawyer>Cycling weakly0 -
I wasn't aware that I was covered at all, it hadn't even crossed my mind to check until the solicitors I was recommended raised it as an issue with me. Perhaps they should have made this clear from the outset. I work in an industry where we frequently put a lot of time and money into winning potential clients only to have them turn round and say 'no.' I guess I naively thought that this would be similar - in that you are not liable for any costs until paperwork has been signed. I've signed nothing so do they have a legal leg to stand on in terms of charging me? I don't want to drop these guys but I'm left little choice it seems. Drop them and it may cost me, keep them on and lose my case, it will definitely cost me.
- 2023 Vielo V+1
- 2022 Canyon Aeroad CFR
- 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX
- Strava
- On the Strand
- Crown Stables
0 -
Il Principe wrote:But if I've not signed an agreement then what can they do? To be fair I'm not sure they've done much except chase me for the CFA anyway.
How much time do you think they've spent?0 -
Maybe you need to hire a 3rd firm of lawyers to advise you on the best course of action.<a>road</a>0
-
Always Tyred wrote:Il Principe wrote:But if I've not signed an agreement then what can they do? To be fair I'm not sure they've done much except chase me for the CFA anyway.
How much time do you think they've spent?
I honestly don't know. I met with them right at the start, but as far as I was aware things were on hold before I'd returned the CFA which I've not done. They've called and written me to chase this, but not given me any updates on how things are prgressing. I'm hoping that without a signed CFA they won't have done much at all.- 2023 Vielo V+1
- 2022 Canyon Aeroad CFR
- 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX
- Strava
- On the Strand
- Crown Stables
0 -
el_presidente wrote:Maybe you need to hire a 3rd firm of lawyers to advise you on the best course of action.
As if getting dinged by a car wasn't frustrating enough.- 2023 Vielo V+1
- 2022 Canyon Aeroad CFR
- 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX
- Strava
- On the Strand
- Crown Stables
0 -
Serious point - this sort of hassle is one of the reasons I advise people to think long & hard before going down the legal route.<a>road</a>0
-
el_presidente wrote:Serious point - this sort of hassle is one of the reasons I advise people to think long & hard before going down the legal route.
Yeah, I did think long and hard, but ultimately I've had two operations, a busted up bike, ruined cycle clothing (Castelli, 'natch), pain and inconvenience, lost work etc so seemed sensible to try and extract some compensation - particularly as the dozy bint drove right into me and was clearly in the wrong.
If the worst comes to the worst I will stick with the existing firm and tell the insurers to p1ss off.- 2023 Vielo V+1
- 2022 Canyon Aeroad CFR
- 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX
- Strava
- On the Strand
- Crown Stables
0 -
el_presidente wrote:Serious point - this sort of hassle is one of the reasons I advise people to think long & hard before going down the legal route.
What hassle? See my post above - I'd be surprised if it costs IP anything. If his solicitors have incurred significant expense (which sounds unlikely) then they'll be more likely to be able to persuade his insurers that it would make sense for them to continue acting as they've already done the work. Anyway, if he hasn't signed anything (should have been provided with details of standard terms and conditions, fee structure etc.) then they won't have much of a case. They could arguably claim a verbal contract, but for the likely amounts involved they'd really be wasting their time by the sounds of it.0 -
Did you sign an engagement letter setting out the terms upon which they act for you? This is a requirement for proper instruction and the right to bill arises out of this. It sets out the rates and basis for charging so is fundamental and should be easily identifiable.
Absent this document signed and without knowing the full background and details of your engagement/discussions they shouldnt be able to charge you.
I would just ring them - apologise and say you wont be taking the matter forward with them. Happens quite regularly due to legal panels used by legal expenses insurers (who use bulk power to negotiate ludicrous fee level - but pay peanuts get monkeys)
health warning: this is not legal advice - its been many years since I did this sort of stuff. More my missus field and she is in a right strop atm so not good time to ask sorry.
Riding:
Canyon Nerve AL9.9 2014
Honda CBR600f 2013
Condor Fratello 2010
Cervelo RS 2009
Specialized Rockhopper Pro 20080 -
MatHammond wrote:el_presidente wrote:Serious point - this sort of hassle is one of the reasons I advise people to think long & hard before going down the legal route.
What hassle? See my post above - I'd be surprised if it costs IP anything. If his solicitors have incurred significant expense (which sounds unlikely) then they'll be more likely to be able to persuade his insurers that it would make sense for them to continue acting as they've already done the work. Anyway, if he hasn't signed anything (should have been provided with details of standard terms and conditions, fee structure etc.) then they won't have much of a case. They could arguably claim a verbal contract, but for the likely amounts involved they'd really be wasting their time by the sounds of it.0 -
Always Tyred wrote:Indeed - if no invoice appeared at the end of the financial year, its a sure thing!!
depends when year end is I guess...0 -
Il Principe wrote:el_presidente wrote:Serious point - this sort of hassle is one of the reasons I advise people to think long & hard before going down the legal route.
Yeah, I did think long and hard, but ultimately I've had two operations, a busted up bike, ruined cycle clothing (Castelli, 'natch), pain and inconvenience, lost work etc so seemed sensible to try and extract some compensation - particularly as the dozy bint drove right into me and was clearly in the wrong.
If the worst comes to the worst I will stick with the existing firm and tell the insurers to p1ss off.
fair enough. the last guy had a broken 5yo claud butler and a bruised knee<a>road</a>0 -
MatHammond wrote:el_presidente wrote:Serious point - this sort of hassle is one of the reasons I advise people to think long & hard before going down the legal route.
What hassle? ...
I think maybe I've got lawyer-phobia.
I'll probably get wiped out by a High Court Judge on the way home tonight now.<a>road</a>0 -
Medders wrote:
health warning: this is not legal advice - its been many years since I did this sort of stuff. More my missus field and she is in a right strop atm so not good time to ask sorry.
Are you married to Jacqui Smith?<a>road</a>0 -
Medders wrote:Did you sign an engagement letter setting out the terms upon which they act for you? This is a requirement for proper instruction and the right to bill arises out of this. It sets out the rates and basis for charging so is fundamental and should be easily identifiable.
I've checked through my records and I'm pretty sure I haven't. Need to check at home as well, but I guess if they don't have this then I'm in the clear... fingers crossed.- 2023 Vielo V+1
- 2022 Canyon Aeroad CFR
- 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX
- Strava
- On the Strand
- Crown Stables
0 -
el_presidente wrote:Medders wrote:
health warning: this is not legal advice - its been many years since I did this sort of stuff. More my missus field and she is in a right strop atm so not good time to ask sorry.
Are you married to Jacqui Smith?
oh god. the thought of it. and I've just eaten!
Riding:
Canyon Nerve AL9.9 2014
Honda CBR600f 2013
Condor Fratello 2010
Cervelo RS 2009
Specialized Rockhopper Pro 20080 -
They could arguably claim a verbal contract
Verbal contracts, as any lawyer will tell you, aren't worth the paper they're written on.0 -
Il Principe wrote:Always Tyred wrote:Il Principe wrote:But if I've not signed an agreement then what can they do? To be fair I'm not sure they've done much except chase me for the CFA anyway.
How much time do you think they've spent?
I honestly don't know. I met with them right at the start, but as far as I was aware things were on hold before I'd returned the CFA which I've not done. They've called and written me to chase this, but not given me any updates on how things are prgressing. I'm hoping that without a signed CFA they won't have done much at all.
another not a lawyer caveat.....
....but sounds to me like you've had an initial scoping type meeting - a sales meeting from their point of view - and the next step is for you to sign up with them. Doesn't sound like they've done anything on the case.
Initial consultations to size up the situation are usually free aren't they?0 -
Zachariah wrote:They could arguably claim a verbal contract
Verbal contracts, as any lawyer will tell you, aren't worth the paper they're written on.
For example, your employer changes terms and conditions which you are then invited to sign. If you do not sign but conform to the terms and conditions for long enough, you can be held to have agreed to them.
In this case, though, on the face of it, it seems that the ball is in IlP's court. I seem to remember something about offer, acceptance and consideration. If they've made an offer and there has been no consideration and/or no acceptance, there is no contract.
I also dimly remember something about a written contract presiding where present.
Where the hell is Spen when you need him? I don't often want for a pernickerty opinionated bug6er, but this is one of those times....0 -
Slightly different kettle of fish, but still relevant. You all know I'm not a lawyer...
I got talked into meeting with a NWNF lawyer to discuss a personal injury claim. We talked for an hour, she told me I definitely had a case, and said she'd send me out an engagement letter to sign and return.
I decided (eventually) that the case was utterly idiotic and I'd be ashamed of myself for pursuing it, and rang the lawyer to tell her as much.
She said 'ok, well thanks for letting me know'. No bill, no nothing.
I'd hope the same would be true in your case, IP.0