Knee/SS compatibility

Medders

Some advice from the commuting peloton badly needed.....

I reckon I am having compatibility issues between my knees (particularly the right) and my 48/16 SS.

I do 30 miles a day and now that the days are long again (hooray!) each way includes the trip through Richmond Park and its various little steep bits. Moved to SS back in January from geared as was having bike cleaning/maintenance issues - aka being slack. But back then in the dark the ride circumvented the park. Recently my knees have been giving me proper gyp having never done so before. After serious pain both ways yesterday (scr humiliation! :oops: ) am off the bike onto PT again today (and paying £13 a day for the privilege).

Screwing up my knees is just not a risk I want to take as this knee issue now means I am likely to miss the Pearson 150 as a minimum. Fettling seems to have done nothing to alleviate the problem permanently (and cleat position just seems to be guesswork/whatever seems comfortable anyway).

I am thinking that given the distance, the slopes in RP and generally the additional start/stop efforts that going back to geared may be sensible..... Could put a smaller gear on it but then going spinny is hardly likely good for the knees either...

On the plus side this would give me a health-based excuse for another new bike to She Who Must Be Obeyed....

Any views?

Ta.

Jamey

Worth getting a pro bike fitting, at all?

FeynmanC

Also, if you've made them ache too much you will need to let them rest a bit before you should try cycling on them again or the fettling you've done will still result in pain.

spasypaddy

go and see the bike whisperer. will solve everything

Greg T

You aren't leg breaking are you?

God gave us dual pivot breaks to show us his love.

wgwarburton

Greg T wrote:

You aren't leg breaking are you? ....

On a single-speed? I hope not! :-)

Why do you (the OP, not GregT!) think spinning would be bad for your knees? That's a new one to me, as I would expect it to be easy on the knees but hard on the lungs!!!
My [limited] experience has been that I've had some mild knee pain when I've been grinding at a lower cadence for a while (eg headwinds!) but never from spinning, which tends to leave me with oxygen-debt/stitch-in-the-side/gasping for breath issues... That tends to support the assertion I read years ago, that if you run out of legs before lungs you're cadence is too low, whereas if your lungs give out before your legs your cadence is too high.

Cheers,
W.

Medders

cheers guys

not leg braking - i have god's love tempered by knee pain.

got my appointment with the bike whisperer booked in about 2 weeks ago (tough to get convenient slot so not till 30 June). seems overkill for commuter bike but hey

giving proper time to heal is all good in theory but hell in practice - but did have 2 weeks off bike with a virus (i mean wtf was that about?? Huge hit with the MTFD stick? ) recently and yet knee back with avengeance within 2 days. Just plain fed up with it.

I take the consensus is that the combination of the distance, terrain and SS 48/16 should be ok in theory....

new bike excuse FAIL

jonginge

Medders wrote:

I take the consensus is that the combination of the distance, terrain and SS 48/16 should be ok in theory....

Should be ok. That's the gearing I've got on my Pearson Touche.

What pedal system are you using? Maybe you need a lot of float...
What stretching are you doing? Perhaps you have ITB syndrome. (That always gives me a wry grin given his persistent knee troubles.)

It's also possible that your knees may now need more than just rest

Medders wrote:

new bike excuse FAIL

We need excuses now? :shock:

WesternWay

Medders wrote:

got my appointment with the bike whisperer booked in about 2 weeks ago (tough to get convenient slot so not till 30 June). seems overkill for commuter bike but hey

I would be very interested to hear how you get on... I am having knee pain for the first time... Do about 24 miles/day and have recently a) actually started clipping in and b)probably grind a bit more than I used to.

George

wgwarburton

Medders wrote:

... Huge hit with the MTFD stick? ...

*sigh*, it's WTFD... MTFU vs. WTFD... ok? :-)

I take the consensus is that the combination of the distance, terrain and SS 48/16 should be ok in theory....

Personally, I wouldn't run 48/16, though I appreciate that others get on fine with it. I would expect to get knee pain if I rode that 30 miles/day.

48/16 is nigh on 80"... The highest gear on my geared bike (tourer, admittedly) is 88".

Fixed, I started on 64" gears (38x16, 52x22), then went to 71" (42x16) for a lightweight summer bike, 68" (48x19) for winter (too high) and currently 70" (52x20) for summer.

I don't know what your terrain is like- I have some modest hills (Central Scotland) but nothing major. I can generally hold 70rpm (~14mph) when climbing them unless there's a headwind, though that's uncomfortably low cadence for me.

Given that you can freewheel if you have to, I would think it'd be worth trying a lower gear... 48x18 (72") is popular on fixies and you might prefer to go lower for SS.

All this depends on your roadspeed, though! I can't average more than 16-18mph, so my cadence averages ~90, even though I'm over that getting on for half the time. If you are averaging 25mph plus (Chapeau!), then your cadence will be averaging 100+ (though your power output might still mean you're putting a bit of strain on your knees!!).

Cheers,
W.

Medders

@ WG - WTFD? brave one there mate.

Basically I look for a cruising road speed on the flat of somewhere in the 19-22mph range. Not sure of my max on the flat but reckon its about 26mph. 48/16 basically ticks the minimum necessary pace box. But even your "modest" hills will dwarf the slight rises I am having to deal with in RP.

@ JG - yup need excuses. She found out the true cost of my good bike a while ago and realised it was more than her engagement ring. Bad things occurred.

Running on bog standard shimano SPDs. Very loose tho. Gonna have another play tonight and see how I get on tomo and will probs avoid the park. Really hope additional treatment not required....

Cheers

jonginge

Medders wrote:

@ WG - WTFD? brave one there mate.

Basically I look for a cruising road speed on the flat of somewhere in the 19-22mph range. Not sure of my max on the flat but reckon its about 26mph. 48/16 basically ticks the minimum necessary pace box. But even your "modest" hills will dwarf the slight rises I am having to deal with in RP.

@ JG - yup need excuses. She found out the true cost of my good bike a while ago and realised it was more than her engagement ring. Bad things occurred.

Running on bog standard shimano SPDs. Very loose tho. Gonna have another play tonight and see how I get on tomo and will probs avoid the park. Really hope additional treatment not required....

Cheers

Ah, nothing worse than an annoyed FCO...

BR had a couple of good articles a while back:
http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/health ... ance-17010
http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/health ... rt-2-17445

Hope the pain goes away with rest and fettling of position but obv. if pain persists then get thee to the doc's. Good luck.

Clever Pun

FCO? don't you mean FPO - Fun Prevention Officer

Medders if the ring was 3 months take home then she's not got a leg to stand on... if not then umm err buy her dinner or something

Medders

Clever Pun wrote:

FCO? don't you mean FPO - Fun Prevention Officer

Medders if the ring was 3 months take home then she's not got a leg to stand on... if not then umm err buy her dinner or something

blo*dy hell! is that the benchmark spend? glad she didnt/doesnt know about that!

But does that mean that good bike should also be 3 months take home? For gods sake dont tell Sigma Sport that....oh..... they already know.

Clever Pun

I'm sure it's a vicious rumour spread by girls... that that's the amount I've heard bandied about a fair bit... but I'm not engaged as yet so don't really know and can spend my money as I like... except it seems on tattoos.. the missus seems to get a little knarked by that

lost_in_thought

WTF? 3 times your monthly net salary?! That's insanity.

Also, WTFD? Buns, you're in big trouble...

Anyway.

48/16 isn't a super-heavy gear, maybe look at your pedals - what are you riding on your road bike? Do they have float? Could you switch them over?

Have you had knee problems in the past?

Oh, and for temporary gearing relief, stand up when accelerating. Uses your weight to push the pedals. I should have been a fizzycyst, innit. :P

spasypaddy

Western, i had knee pain, went to the bike whisperer and we got rid of it with shims, and movement of my position.

wgwarburton

lost_in_thought wrote:

...Also, WTFD? Buns, you're in big trouble...

Why? You're not a Wuss, are you?

Oh! You thought I meant ... Oh, nononono...! As if I would....

Cheers,
W.

fossyant

I'd drop the gear inches for a bit...

I run 74" fixed, but I'm in Manchester and it's a bit lumpy. Can do steady 20-23 mph (upto 115 rpm) on the flat.....gets hard work when a geared road bike chases.... as the 115 rpm and powering the stroke is about my limit.... Can do about 32 down hill (160 rpm)...

80" is way too big up here, and could be a reason your knees are complaining.

wgwarburton

fossyant wrote:

I'd drop the gear inches for a bit...

I run 74" fixed, but I'm in Manchester and it's a bit lumpy. Can do steady 20-23 mph (upto 115 rpm) on the flat.....gets hard work when a geared road bike chases.... as the 115 rpm and powering the stroke is about my limit.... Can do about 32 down hill (160 rpm)...

80" is way too big up here, and could be a reason your knees are complaining.

Yeah, I'll say it again. I know you posted that your cruising pace of 19-22 ticks the cadence box but that's only about 80rpm. Your peak cadence on the flat (26mph) is going to be under 110.
High cadences are not for everyone.... but given that you are suffering from knee pain, they might be for you. If you aim for a peak of about 140-150rpm when sprinting behind a bus at 30mph or so you should be able to use a 48x18. That would put your cruising cadence in the high 90s instead of the low 80s and ought to reduce the strain on your knees significantly.

It might not suit you, but for the price of a freewheel, I think it would be worth trying it out.

Cheers,
W.

Medders

thanks all

gonna give going back to a 48/17 a go and maybe shorten the stem again to try and ease my low back gripes (oh yeah as of recently I have them too) and also start looking at a possible replacement geared bike (cos its fun).

interestingly pearson (its a touche) measured me up and said I need a 58 but when I bought my good bike from sigma ( a while before) they said I was a 56. I am confident I hadnt grown in the interim but they were adamant.

Had none of this back/knee sh*t before the SS.

slightly OT but recently put Time I-Clics on my good bike. Cant praise them enough. But not really suitable for the constant in-out clipping of commuting.

Anyway - Cannondale CAAD9/Genesis Equilibrium/Condor Italia testing here we come!

WesternWay

Spasy, Thank you