Private Rail Compaines fleecing the public

nicensleazy

Here we go again - the private rail compaines are fleecing the public by extending the 'peak' hours each day. Well, I guess we can thank the past Conservative government for this. The good old British public, we just keep paying and paying! I always said, the railways, tubes and buses should remain within the state control, Run by the people for the people! The public transport system should not been run for profit. Providing it makes enough money for repairs, new equipment and peoples wages. But there again, we just apply capitalist values to everything in this country and look where that has got us!

markos1963

Yes totally agree.
I can be smug as well because I didn't vote for John Major, all those that did and are now moaning about it then TOUGH!!

rick_chasey

nicensleazy wrote:

Here we go again - the private rail compaines are fleecing the public by extending the 'peak' hours each day. Well, I guess we can thank the past Conservative government for this. The good old British public, we just keep paying and paying! I always said, the railways, tubes and buses should remain within the state control, Run by the people for the people! The public transport system should not been run for profit. Providing it makes enough money for repairs, new equipment and peoples wages. But there again, we just apply capitalist values to everything in this country and look where that has got us!

I said it elsewhere, I think they're being investigated by the competition comission*

*Edit: Not sure if it's the rail companies, or national rail, or a combination.

Either way, the CC is looking at whether they're exploiting their monopolistic position.

To be honest, I think most people could tell you the answer right now.

markos1963

Rick Chasey wrote:

nicensleazy wrote:

Here we go again - the private rail compaines are fleecing the public by extending the 'peak' hours each day. Well, I guess we can thank the past Conservative government for this. The good old British public, we just keep paying and paying! I always said, the railways, tubes and buses should remain within the state control, Run by the people for the people! The public transport system should not been run for profit. Providing it makes enough money for repairs, new equipment and peoples wages. But there again, we just apply capitalist values to everything in this country and look where that has got us!

I said it elsewhere, I think they're being investigated by the competition comission*

*Edit: Not sure if it's the rail companies, or national rail, or a combination.

Either way, the CC is looking at whether they're exploiting their monopolistic position.

To be honest, I think most people could tell you the answer right now.

They can investigate all they like, at the end of the day as a private company they have to maximise any profit increasing opportunity. The're not a charity or a public service provider anymore and whilst I don't agree with privatisation you can't blame them for trying. Apart from the lucrative mainline services they don't make any money from rural services and in fact a lot of the branch lines only survive through subsidy by the local councils.

rick_chasey

markos1963 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

nicensleazy wrote:

Here we go again - the private rail compaines are fleecing the public by extending the 'peak' hours each day. Well, I guess we can thank the past Conservative government for this. The good old British public, we just keep paying and paying! I always said, the railways, tubes and buses should remain within the state control, Run by the people for the people! The public transport system should not been run for profit. Providing it makes enough money for repairs, new equipment and peoples wages. But there again, we just apply capitalist values to everything in this country and look where that has got us!

I said it elsewhere, I think they're being investigated by the competition comission*

*Edit: Not sure if it's the rail companies, or national rail, or a combination.

Either way, the CC is looking at whether they're exploiting their monopolistic position.

To be honest, I think most people could tell you the answer right now.

They can investigate all they like, at the end of the day as a private company they have to maximise any profit increasing opportunity. The're not a charity or a public service provider anymore and whilst I don't agree with privatisation you can't blame them for trying. Apart from the lucrative mainline services they don't make any money from rural services and in fact a lot of the branch lines only survive through subsidy by the local councils.

There are very strict rules on what companies are allowed to do in terms of exploiting their market position.

They're a pretty good lot the CC. Observe:

http://www.ethicalcorp.com/content.asp?ContentID=1832

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_U ... ition_case

Edit: I know that's the EU one, but the UK CC is pretty much the same, just with a less ballsy leader (although she's since been removed from the EU CC)

markos1963

Microsoft is a bad example as it has total market domination and massive profit base. The rail companies are struggling to make a profit at the moment, most of them are relying on their bus operations to keep them going so I don't think the Competition Commision will do much in this case.

rick_chasey

markos1963 wrote:

Microsoft is a bad example as it has total market domination and massive profit base. The rail companies are struggling to make a profit at the moment, most of them are relying on their bus operations to keep them going so I don't think the Competition Commision will do much in this case.

Just because you're not making profit of your monopolistic position doesn't mean you're not exploiting it and breaking the rules.

As discussed on another thread it's well known that national rail often hide the cheapest fairs, making information difficult to get at and thus forcing customers to pay more than necessary.

That, for example, if proven, can result in a BIG fine.

The competition comission doesn't really care if the company is doing well or not. And with good reason.

markos1963

I would like to share your optomism but I remain sceptical. In the current econimic climate I would suspect that the rail companies might slip through with this one. Don't get me wrong I have no desire to see the paying public cheated or fleeced, my livelyhood depends on the passengers, but I think that they would be best served by renationalisation and a simplyfying of the ticket system.

Anonymous

It would be nice if Hornby ran the trains, wouldn't it ?

markos1963

dmclite wrote:

It would be nice if Hornby ran the trains, wouldn't it ?

They do in Norfolk but use the name National Express!

Anonymous

markos1963 wrote:

dmclite wrote:

It would be nice if Hornby ran the trains, wouldn't it ?

They do in Norfolk but use the name National Express!

domhnall_dearg

They're not the only ones changing "peak" times. BT have recently changed the "evening" times from 6pm to 6am to 7pm to 7am. I pretty sure more calls are made between 6 and 7 in the evening rather than 6 and 7 in the morning.

Frank the tank

Private rail companies should be a thing of the past.

OffTheBackAdam

Some here seem to haver a very rosey memory of the wonders of British Rail. :roll:

finchy

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

Some here seem to haver a very rosey memory of the wonders of British Rail. :roll:

BR had far lower subsidies than the private rail companies.
They also had inferior technology at their disposal, and we pay a hell of a lot more to travel around Britain than our European neighbours do to travel in their countries.

Stone Glider

I worked for British Railways back in the day. They were hugely beaurocratic and deaply customer-phobic, but the trains were faster and safety was everything. The present arrangement is clumsy and was originally structured to make re-integration as difficult as possible but it will come. All the alternatives fail.

domhnall_dearg

http://www.discountcyclesdirect.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=4845

Allegedly Britain has both the highest and lowest rail prices in Europe on the sam eroutes and on the same trains!

domhnall_dearg

That quote went very wrong somehow and what I tried to quote seems to have disappeared. I'll put it down to the Laphroaig.

Frank the tank

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

Some here seem to haver a very rosey memory of the wonders of British Rail. :roll:

When there is a rail crash and people die the transport minister would be ultimately responsible. Under this system people perish and no-one has to answer because the system is so shambolic. An utter disgrace.

Stone Glider

The rule book I was issued was the size and shape of a New Testament, I was expected to learn it and Gawd Help You if you made a mistake!

nicensleazy

The sad demise of the British transport system!

verylonglegs

I don't know, I can see both sides to the public private argument. It came up for discussion with some people at work when we were talking about the election and someone mentioned the transport policy of the LibDems I think, it included a bit about building high speed rail links between London and a few of the other larger cities. Now obviously this would cost billions, at a time when the country is skint, and as we were in Norfolk the general feeling was why should people in our area subsidise something they are unlikely to ever use? How do you convince them the country as a whole benefits?

rick_chasey

verylonglegs wrote:

I don't know, I can see both sides to the public private argument. It came up for discussion with some people at work when we were talking about the election and someone mentioned the transport policy of the LibDems I think, it included a bit about building high speed rail links between London and a few of the other larger cities. Now obviously this would cost billions, at a time when the country is skint, and as we were in Norfolk the general feeling was why should people in our area subsidise something they are unlikely to ever use? How do you convince them the country as a whole benefits?

A CBA. Which has already been done. And found it probably would benefit then nation as a whole, if I remember rightly.

As for the expenditure - at least people are getting paid to do sh!t.

beverick

nicensleazy wrote:

Here we go again - the private rail compaines are fleecing the public by extending the 'peak' hours each day. Well, I guess we can thank the past Conservative government for this. The good old British public, we just keep paying and paying! I always said, the railways, tubes and buses should remain within the state control, Run by the people for the people! The public transport system should not been run for profit. Providing it makes enough money for repairs, new equipment and peoples wages. But there again, we just apply capitalist values to everything in this country and look where that has got us!

"Edward Welsh, of the Association of Train Operating Companies (Atoc), says the vast majority of travellers have seen fares fall, stay the same or rise below the rate of inflation."

Yeah, lets focus on the bit of the article that suits your own political agenda......

Bob

SteveR_100Milers

johnfinch wrote:

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

Some here seem to haver a very rosey memory of the wonders of British Rail. :roll:

BR had far lower subsidies than the private rail companies.
They also had inferior technology at their disposal, and we pay a hell of a lot more to travel around Britain than our European neighbours do to travel in their countries.

And for similar reasons this is why France has hte worlds biggest airline company, and we just make the wings. Renault and PSA are world forces in the auto industry, whilst the UK is "a Japanese aircraft carrier parked off the coast of Northern Europe" Two more examples of gross under-investment stemming from short term gain that we are hypnotised by in this country.

finchy

beverick wrote:

nicensleazy wrote:

Here we go again - the private rail compaines are fleecing the public by extending the 'peak' hours each day. Well, I guess we can thank the past Conservative government for this. The good old British public, we just keep paying and paying! I always said, the railways, tubes and buses should remain within the state control, Run by the people for the people! The public transport system should not been run for profit. Providing it makes enough money for repairs, new equipment and peoples wages. But there again, we just apply capitalist values to everything in this country and look where that has got us!

"Edward Welsh, of the Association of Train Operating Companies (Atoc), says the vast majority of travellers have seen fares fall, stay the same or rise below the rate of inflation."

Yeah, lets focus on the bit of the article that suits your own political agenda......

Bob

Any stats to back ATOC's claims? Or the other sides'?

Av it

the truth is the Railways are political but here are some facts

some of the biggest costs associated are the people, many of whom are paid vast sums of money to sit around and do nothing

Many people are employed to develop new schemes that are shelved but still paid for

Unions are the reason we cant have a cheap effective and safe railway. Just an observation from inside and on the side, providing labour at all levels to the TOCs Engineering contractors, Design for Electrification, signalling P way, rolling stock etc etc

thats the truth but which party is going to challenge them? theyll shout health and safety.

maybe our own soon to come austerity measures will address this but i doubt it. Antiquated working practices continue and the railway copntinues in a shabby way.

Yes its possible to get cheap fares but theyre not available to people wanting to just catch a train when they want it. for that, i.e. using public transport you have to pay. through the nose.