Old Bike Project

Bushfire

I've been looking for a bike project to work on so as to help me learn a bit more about bike maintenance etc. My plan is to build a relatively cheap single speed bike to start with. I mentioned this to my dad who has a bike frame in his loft. He is happy for me to have it however its a road bike frame from when he was a teenager he's 77 now. I like the idea of getting it back on the road & I think it would make him very happy. If I was to do it I would want to do a proper job for him.
My question is will current day parts fit on an old frame or will it be all imperial against metric? Any advice or thoughts welcome.

whyamihere

Depends on what frame it is really.

Most of the standards adopted on modern bikes are those which were used on old British bikes. So if the frame's something like a Raleigh, you'll probably be in luck. Italian bikes had a slightly different bottom bracket, but these are still made, so you might be ok.

If it's French, it's probably best to give up. Nearly everything's different on old French bikes, and parts are incredibly hard to source as they haven't been made for many years.

Bushfire

Just spoke to my dad, he tells me its a Dawes brand with an original Brookes B17 Saddle.

laughingboy

Just to add to what Lost says.

Apart from the imperial vs metric potential ptifalls, there are other ways in which bikes have changed, basically dating from when mountain bikes became ubiquitous: new head tubes are wider, so you will have an old "threaded" quill stem and a thinner headset.

A sixty year-old bike might not have much in the way of gears, or may have hubgears (Sturmey Archer, etc). In either event, the dropouts will be closer together, meaning that you will have to be careful about wheel replacement (old 5/6 speeds have narrower hubs than recent bikes, and the gears are on a freewheel rather than a cassette). You can "spread" the rear triangle to accommodate modern gearing (so-called "cold setting") or you can be very canny with how you update the bike to avoid any of these problems.

If you are lucky, your dad's bike will be a collectible work of cycling art built by someone like Bill Hurlow, in which case, you might want to renovate it using contemporary parts.

The key thing is to have a good look at the frame, and work out what will work easily, and therefore what your options are. Good luck.

Bushfire

Thanks for the info, looks like a bit more research is needed, will contact Dawes direct & see if they can offer any advice.

laughingboy

An old Dawes?
In which case, you might want to read this, to get you in the mood:

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Britis ... s_main.htm

whyamihere

You *should* be fine with a Dawes, especially if you're wanting to use it single speed.

Bottom bracket - It'll be the standard size still used today, almost certainly.

Rear spacing - I would guess this will be set to 120mm, or just shy of 120mm. This is the size of track hubs even today, so running single speed will be no problem at all.

Headset - It will be a 1" threaded system. Pretty easy to get parts for. The stem will be a quilll stem, these are still quite common or you can get adaptors to allow the fitting of modern stems.

Gears aren't an issue as you're running singlespeed.

Wheels - This might be a bit trickier. 700c wheels, as fitted to most modern road bikes and hybrids, are relatively recent. It's more likely that the bike was built for the slightly larger 27" wheels. However, it's often possible to fit 700c wheels anyway, or 27" tyres are still available.

Brakes - Old bikes had pretty long drop brakes. If you don't have the originals, there are very long drop brakes on the market, made by Tektro.

Bushfire

Thanks for all the info it looks like its a realistic if not long term project . I think the age of the bike & the fact it was my dads pride & joy since he was 14 it deserves a bit of TLC. I'm thinking professional re-spray & replacement decals. He tells me the front forks were chrome when he bought it so that may be possible. I think replacement drop bars with leather bar tape. A new Brookes B17 racing saddle with a saddle bag to match, so the cosmetics I'm fine with, the technical side might be more of a challenge but with time, patience & the internet it should be possible.

rjsterry

A chap in C+ managed to restore a 1920's road bike, so I think 'only' 60 years old should be possible. Sounds great, and would love to see some pictures as it develops. There is a whole world of 'classic' (i.e. old) bike fettling, so you should find several pepolpe who can help with detail.

Canny Jock

Check out www.lfgss.com, also I think there is a site called retrobikes or similar?

lae

whyamihere wrote:

D
Most of the standards adopted on modern bikes are those which were used on old British bikes. So if the frame's something like a Raleigh, you'll probably be in luck.

Mnn no not really. Raleigh had their own proprietary fittings. Bottom bracket threads, headsets/forks and even some seatpost diameters aren't interchangeable with anything else.

And yeah, there's a retrobike forum, be sure to get the bicycle one and not the motorbike one!

If it's a Dawes the BB will be English threading so no problems there - if you want a true period restoration you'll want cottered cranks (cotterless didn't come in until 1958 I think, and not until the 70s on most bikes). Cottered crank axles and the BB cups are on ebay all the time. Actually if you're interested, I have a 1950s BB with axle, as well as two 1950s cottered cranksets (one is 48t and needs a new ring and is very rusty, the other is a massive 54t which is in good condition but not mint). PM me if you're interested. I also have some 1950s pedals but they're not in great condition.

If it was designed for 27" wheels, then modern 700c wheels will fit, but they're slightly smaller so the brakes will need approx 4mm extra drop - so make sure you buy 'long drop' calipers.

And finally, I'd keep the original saddle if it's not too bad (proofide works wonders on old saddles), I think I'd be nice to have some patina on the bike, it's sort respectfully showing the age of the thing.

whyamihere

frinkmakesyouthink wrote:

whyamihere wrote:

D
Most of the standards adopted on modern bikes are those which were used on old British bikes. So if the frame's something like a Raleigh, you'll probably be in luck.

Mnn no not really. Raleigh had their own proprietary fittings. Bottom bracket threads, headsets/forks and even some seatpost diameters aren't interchangeable with anything else.

Very old ones, yes. By 60 years ago, they'd settled on British standards, I'm quite sure of it.

Not an issue in this case though, as it's not a Raleigh.

Bushfire

Keeping a photographic record of the project is a great idea. I won't be able to collect the bike until mid June so a bit of time for research etc before hand. Will keep you updated & thanks for all the advice I think a fair bit more will be looked for.

rjsterry

Strangely enough, my first proper bike - a child-size Dawes 5-speed tourer - had cottered cranks, and that was 19... ummm... 89-90 ish I think. Good little bike that.

EDIT: Actually, may have been a year or two earlier, but around the late '80s.

lae

whyamihere wrote:

Very old ones, yes. By 60 years ago, they'd settled on British standards, I'm quite sure of it.

Not an issue in this case though, as it's not a Raleigh.

No I don't think so. I just sold my 1980 Raleigh and that had 26tpi BB threads and a proprietary headset/fork thread. In fact, my girlfriend's Caprice is a 1987 model and uses the same threads.

Wrath Rob

To add my tuppence, last year I rebuilt (not restored) my dad's 45 year old Harry Perry time trial bike. I too had the concerns that you've raised so I took it to my LBS who were happy to advise. Regarding wheels, they suggested some strong track wheels with sealed hubs, with the rear to the correct width to take into account 1 cog instead of 5. I think it was 130mm but not sure. Speaking of cogs, the rear drop-out is not a horizontal track one so I've got a chain tensioner to take up the slack in the chain, replacing the rear deraileur. They managed to replace the crank set easily, so no metric/imperial issues there and I've sourced a seat post and seat that fit (27.3mm tube?). New brakes (Shimano Tiagra's) made a massive difference, especially with modern blocks instead of 45 year old rubber ones! I tried the original levers but they were unfortunately crap so got replaced with some Cane Creek ones.

The original items left, apart from the frame, are the cable sheath's, forks and headset, as there was no need to replace them, plus the original alan key bolts for the seat clamp, which is a massive pain as I have to carry an imperial alan key around with me! The bike's now good for a few more years and is proving a trusty steed for the daily commute. Good luck with it!

Bushfire

Quick update: The bike is due back on Friday after a little work on it that was over my ability. It should be roadworthy although no finished to the spec I wanted, so more work as time and money allows. Just to show you what I collected in June:
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roger_merriman

your bike isn't dissimilar to my old bike. which I think is a old dawes.

Bushfire

Well at last after lots of cleaning polishing & refurbishing old parts & sourcing new bits, my dads 1947 Dawes bike is back on the road. Still not finished but it's rideable. Thanks to Laura & Wheely Good Bicycles for all the help & advice she gave me, it would all still be in a box otherwise.
Sorry for the quality of picture but awful weather today & just going dark. Will post some better arty pictures next week.
Would still like to:

add some chrome mudgaurads, replace the bar tape with tan leather bar tape, add an aged leather saddle bag to match the 63 year old saddle refurb the 4 gear hub add some appropriate Dawes decals

schweiz

That's nice.

What crankset did you use?

When you get the brooks bar tape, can I suggest you wrap it round the brake levers with a 'vertical' wrap like I did on my conversion last winter?

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15867689

It hides the band on the brake lever and IMO looks cleaner.

Bushfire

Thanks

The crankset is a re-conditioned Raleigh as the original was way beyond its best. Looking to replace it with a Dawes when one becomes available.

Thanks for the advice on the bar tape & will give it a go.

Cafewanda

Nice restoration job. I particularly like the brake levers.