how do you know when your good enough to race ???

Pross

I agree on getting the bunch riding experience first but there really is only one way of finding out if your ready.....

I've seen plenty of decent riders who can hold their own on club runs and turn out decent times in TTs but when it comes to racing they just can't do it. |Likewise, I've seen people with decidedly average TT times who can sit in the bunch all day. A large part of racing is in the head, it was certainly one of my biggest weaknesses!

Pokerface

Toks wrote:

Homer J wrote:

Toks wrote:

Homer J wrote:

if you can cover the distance you are good enough to race. .

I don't think this is very good advice at all. I reckon most people that post on the training forum could ride 100 miles. Does that mean we could all keep up with the domestic Pros in a Premier Calender event? :roll:

Hellooo, it does say cat 4 :roll:

Er...Hello! :roll: As a newbie racer the OP was/is looking for racing tips? You said, being able to cover the race distant means you're "ready to race". It's almost like saying having a racing bike means you're "ready to race". If two people ride 25miles and one covers the distance in 1 hour 10min and the other takes two hours one of them in my book at least is not ready to race.

Well strictly speaking - if you can cover the race distance then you ARE ready to race. No matter what time it takes you. I mean - you aren't going to win or anything....

Unless it's a circuit - which many races are - and they pull slower riders off when they get lapped, etc.


Anyway - I'd say if you can average 20MPH on your own for 1.5 hours - then you are ready to race. I've found that the average speed of a race is higher - but riding in the group you share the work, etc - so it's easier to go faster.

Toks

Pokerface wrote:

Well strictly speaking - if you can cover the race distance then you ARE ready to race. No matter what time it takes you. I mean - you aren't going to win or anything....

And 'strickly speaking' you don't have to be able to cover the race distance either to 'race'. I've done quite a few sportivs competitvely and a few road races having never ridden the distance.

Pokerface wrote:

Anyway - I'd say if you can average 20MPH on your own for 1.5 hours - then you are ready to race. I've found that the average speed of a race is higher - but riding in the group you share the work, etc - so it's easier to go faster.

A lot of newbies won't be able to do that (I know I can't without serious motivation and I've been a 2nd cat) IFor 90mins think 18mph would be a more realistic average speed for a newbie

CXXC

I attended my first race last night at Crystal Palace, i say attended as I didn't exactly "take part"...dropped on lap 2, lapped on about lap 15/16, hard goddam work :oops:

i guess riding in a hurry from canary wharf to CP and arriving 10 minutes before the start, signing on and realising it was pretty much a CAT 3 race, pinning on my numbers, getting changed, quick stretch, and lining up at the start without even having the chance of reccying the track wasn't quite ideal preparation.

still will definitely go back again once i've trained some more and got my power and endurance levels up, it was quite impressive the Cat 1/2 guys and the girls going past at pace, I just made sure I kept well out the way.

sunburntknees

CXXC wrote:

I attended my first race last night at Crystal Palace, i say attended as I didn't exactly "take part"...dropped on lap 2, lapped on about lap 15/16, hard goddam work :oops:

i guess riding in a hurry from canary wharf to CP and arriving 10 minutes before the start, signing on and realising it was pretty much a CAT 3 race, pinning on my numbers, getting changed, quick stretch, and lining up at the start without even having the chance of reccying the track wasn't quite ideal preparation.

still will definitely go back again once i've trained some more and got my power and endurance levels up, it was quite impressive the Cat 1/2 guys and the girls going past at pace, I just made sure I kept well out the way.

You should try Hillingdon if you're looking for a race on Tuesday nights. There's a Cat 4-only race which you might find more suitable. I ride up there from Canary Wharf. It's about 18 miles I think - which is a good warm-up!

I've not been to Crystal Palace but I understand from clubmates that it's quite a technically demanding course. So don't be to disheartened by your performance.

Mettan

CXXC wrote:

I attended my first race last night at Crystal Palace, i say attended as I didn't exactly "take part"...dropped on lap 2, lapped on about lap 15/16, hard goddam work :oops:

Its happened to many people - on the positive side though, you know exactly what the requirements are now, and so will be better prepared for your next race. The standard is high, but its fun.

James_London

CXXC wrote:

I attended my first race last night at Crystal Palace, i say attended as I didn't exactly "take part"...dropped on lap 2, lapped on about lap 15/16, hard goddam work :oops:

Don't be disheartened! You started with the hardest race going. By race number 3 or 4 you should be able to stay in.

Palace is a very hard race compared to Hillingdon (or in fact any race I've done) in terms of average or normalised power required to finish in the bunch. Average power required to stay in the front bunch is about 20% higher than Hillingdon. The hill obviously means your weight is a more significant factor too.

CXXC

thanks for the words of encouragement guys, i'll definitely give racing another go but first i think i need to do some serious leg squat work, or just MTFU and only ever ride in the big ring on my daily commutes and when out training.

I don't own a car so CP is just that much more convenient for me than Hillingdon or Hogs Hill. It wasn't the cornering I seemed to struggle with it was that hill up the back where I just didn't have the power to keep up. That and being a naive noobie starting at the back of the bunch..... :roll:

Bronzie

CXXC wrote:

i need to do some serious leg squat work, or just MTFU and only ever ride in the big ring on my daily commutes and when out training.

unlikely any of those 3 will help much...........improving sustainable (20min+) power is the first place to start, not squats

CXXC

Bronzie wrote:

CXXC wrote:

i need to do some serious leg squat work, or just MTFU and only ever ride in the big ring on my daily commutes and when out training.

unlikely any of those 3 will help much...........improving sustainable (20min+) power is the first place to start, not squats

suggestions how?

Av it

CXXC wrote:

Bronzie wrote:

CXXC wrote:

i need to do some serious leg squat work, or just MTFU and only ever ride in the big ring on my daily commutes and when out training.

unlikely any of those 3 will help much...........improving sustainable (20min+) power is the first place to start, not squats

suggestions how?

Yes, do some races

CXXC

Av it wrote:

CXXC wrote:

Bronzie wrote:

CXXC wrote:

i need to do some serious leg squat work, or just MTFU and only ever ride in the big ring on my daily commutes and when out training.

unlikely any of those 3 will help much...........improving sustainable (20min+) power is the first place to start, not squats

suggestions how?

Yes, do some races

so the best way to get race fit.....is to race. you saying nothing else can be done in between races to help or must i just keep stumping up my money on the night for the privilege of riding at the back on my own?

if i wanted to ride on my own i'm sure i could do it another night :?

fastercyclist

CXXC wrote:

Av it wrote:

CXXC wrote:

Bronzie wrote:

CXXC wrote:

i need to do some serious leg squat work, or just MTFU and only ever ride in the big ring on my daily commutes and when out training.

unlikely any of those 3 will help much...........improving sustainable (20min+) power is the first place to start, not squats

suggestions how?

Yes, do some races

so the best way to get race fit.....is to race. you saying nothing else can be done in between races to help or must i just keep stumping up my money on the night for the privilege of riding at the back on my own?

if i wanted to ride on my own i'm sure i could do it another night :?

Racing makes a very big improvement to your cycling ability. It just isn't the same as "training".

When you train you go hard when you're strong. Racing forces you to go hard on areas you're weak and breaks several pain barriers for you. I became a lot stronger after trying a few races.

Try doing a chain gang if you want to see how you square up.

CXXC

chain gang, never done one of those, will see if there's one local to me

thanks FC

Av it

Youre making excuses and lloking for someone to hold your hand.

Ultimately you have just got to do it. Give it a go, sure you can train and improve, try using your turbo look up some good intervals and use them but they take time. do them at the same time as racing and youll see huge improvements over a relatively short period ( 2 months even)

But MTFU and get on with it.

If you feel stressed at the prospect, dont know whats going to happen and then angry at the result, congratulations thats what almost everyone feels. Even those riding the Giro right now.

Youve got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Good luck

CXXC

Av it wrote:

Youre making excuses and lloking for someone to hold your hand.

Ultimately you have just got to do it. Give it a go, sure you can train and improve, try using your turbo look up some good intervals and use them but they take time. do them at the same time as racing and youll see huge improvements over a relatively short period ( 2 months even)

But MTFU and get on with it.

If you feel stressed at the prospect, dont know whats going to happen and then angry at the result, congratulations thats what almost everyone feels. Even those riding the Giro right now.

Youve got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Good luck

haha cheers Av It, I did suggest MTFU initially but BronzeIt poo pood it

unsure/confused? yes disheartened? yes angry? yes stressed? no. keen to improve and excited at the prospect of getting quicker? yes

willing to do all the hardwork on my own and not be carried along by anyone, just was asking advice from those guys that have obviously been there and done it, like yourself.

cheers again

James_London

Bronzie wrote:

unlikely any of those 3 will help much...........improving sustainable (20min+) power is the first place to start, not squats

+1
He speaks the truth! Squats and the big ring are fine once you've built the engine but they won't help your FTP a great deal alone

Bronzie

Av it wrote:

Yes, do some races

He did...........and he lasted 2 laps. What training benefit was there? None.

If you want to last longer than 2 laps
a) race at Spillingdon
b) train your aerobic base more - have a poke around on the training forum - search for "2x20", "improving FTP" and other such pithy acronyms
c) chaingangs are also good, provided you hang on long enought to get some benefit

Dess1e

Bronzie wrote:

Av it wrote:

Yes, do some races

He did...........and he lasted 2 laps. What training benefit was there? None.

If you want to last longer than 2 laps
a) race at Spillingdon
b) train your aerobic base more - have a poke around on the training forum - search for "2x20", "improving FTP" and other such pithy acronyms
c) chaingangs are also good, provided you hang on long enought to get some benefit

No accidents on Tuesday Bronzie (apart from a minor touching of wheels in the 4ths), although I did hear of a rider breaking their collar bone elsewhere last week

Hope you're healing ok and the Div's organisation is going well though.

BTW above is good advice.

Toks

CXXC wrote:

thanks for the words of encouragement guys, i'll definitely give racing another go but first i think i need to do some serious leg squat work, or just MTFU and only ever ride in the big ring on my daily commutes and when out training.

Well done once again. It's quite deceptive this bike racing stuff and often you feel that it's a lack of strength that results in you getting dropped. As someone who knows a lot more than me once said "It's an aerobic sport Damn it!" that's why bar a few beefy sprinters it's dominated by skinny blokes. Forget the big ring rides or squats include rides at a fast but just manageable pace for chunks of 15 to 30 mins (twice weekly)- that will really bring on your fitness levels after a couple of months

CXXC wrote:

I don't own a car so CP is just that much more convenient for me than Hillingdon or Hogs Hill.

Both circuits sometimes have races at the weekend. Why not give them a try then. Check theBCF Calender

CXXC wrote:

It wasn't the cornering I seemed to struggle with it was that hill up the back where I just didn't have the power to keep up.

You probably did have the power but you couldn't "sustain" it

CXXC wrote:

That and being a naive noobie starting at the back of the bunch..... :roll:

Oh dear, school boy error -thats where you go if you want an extra hard race

Bronzie

Dess1e wrote:

I did hear of a rider breaking their collar bone elsewhere last week

Hope you're healing ok and the Div's organisation is going well though.

Yer! What sort of tw@t crashes at the track - not even any corners or chicanes to f*ck things up?

Thanks for the kind words Des - at least I've had a week off work to sort my admin for the Divs out :shock: