Is cycling the domain of the white middle class?

Team Banana Spokesman

your in the wrong area.

plowmar

I'm certain that you will correct me if I am wrong but I am sure that I have recently seen, Black, Chinese and Japanese riders in the Peleton, so the skill is there but what may be lacking is the kick start needed.

The 'bikes to Africa' etc. is a start but in a similar way to our youngsters want to get rich quick and not have careers or even jobs, while the more successful people in the countries concerned are runners they will tend to congregate to that and not riding.

And as said before it is very cheap just to start running.

downfader

I'd class myself as white and working class. I get some funny looks sometimes when the middle class students at my works speak to me and realise I'm not "one of them"

I couldnt care less who rides. Colour, creed, background.. its all good as long as you enjoy it imo. I think there is a deficit, for want of a better word, amoung working class people. The car is still a status symbol, and you can see that in how young lads do up their hatchbacks.

Alumin-Liam

We haven't had a really great British road cyclist yet, are you not getting a bit ahead of yourself talking about a setting up an African pro team?

I think its a cultural thing, Japan have some great track riders, because its hugely popular there! Just as East Africa as produced lots of fantastic distance runners because its part of the culture.

The nations that have great top level road cyclists have had years of cycling culture, and success brings more interest and more success.

As for natural athleticism, I think it is a myth that one race of people is naturally more athletic than another.

Would be good to see a bit more diversity on the road though.

downfader

Alumin-Liam wrote:

We haven't had a really great British road cyclist yet, are you not getting a bit ahead of yourself talking about a setting up an African pro team?

I think its a cultural thing, Japan have some great track riders, because its hugely popular there! Just as East Africa as produced lots of fantastic distance runners because its part of the culture.

The nations that have great top level road cyclists have had years of cycling culture, and success brings more interest and more success.

As for natural athleticism, I think it is a myth that one race of people is naturally more athletic than another.

Would be good to see a bit more diversity on the road though.

No great Brit roadies..? Where have you been any the past 60 years, hahahaha!!!?

As for athletic genetic bias I dont think it is a myth. In the same was very, very slight changes in genes give up different hair, eye, and skin tones, they give us propensity to one of three different muscle structures (quick response for burst, stamina and a mixture of the two for more all around athletism - this was debated on Horizon only last year, and iirc had been mentioned in New Scientist and Scientific American)

verylonglegs

Porgy wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

Porgy wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

Any opinions on this? Seriously, I have decided if I win the lottery I would love to go to Africa with a bundle of bikes to give to people. Sometimes I feel really privileged with what I have and perhaps take it for granted.

Anyone want to create a Pro Team with me. Sponsorship required...?

Bikes? I think they'd need political stability and infrastructure first tbh.

yes - because you can't ride a bike until you have a stable government and proper roads. :roll:

Er, yes you are right in so far as it doesnt stop them physically riding a bike I was referring more to what their list of priorities may be. Do you think people travel thousands of miles across continents to get here for the chance to work, eat well and enjoy decent healthcare and education for their families or because they find themselves thinking one day 'well food is scarce, there are no jobs and malaria is tearing my family to pieces but what I really fancy right now is being part of cliquey bike club and testing myself out on a 25TT.' What do you think?

I don't think it's for you to decide their priorities. those people still need to get on with their lives despite the day to day problems going on around them. If they decide they wish to ride a bike, and it makes them happy then it would be good for them to have that opportunity. If not - then bristol pete will have wasted his time and money. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

I suspect that for a few - the opportunity to cycle will make their lives richer and more fullfilled - just like any other sporting opportunity - football and athletics, that they currently may or may not have access to at the moment.

Plus any success at that sport will bring in money and other opportunities.

On a non-sporting level - more bikes = more mobility - better access to services, jobs, etc. Especially if it's people who cannot afford any other form of transport. Plus health benefits, etc etc.

I really don;t understand what your objection is.

If bristol pete doesn't take bikes to africa then presumably this will not stop the bigger problems from being worked on anyway - unless bristol pete is some sort of superhero who is going to save africa singlehandedly.

I don't object at all, I didn't say that anywhere. I've even got a couple of bikes he can have if he wants, will make a change from all the old pc's we send to be dumped in landfill there. I'm certainly not deciding their priorities either, what's needed for survival dictates that.

amaferanga

Anyone who has been to Africa will know there are a LOT of bikes. I've even seen proper looking roadies in Ethiopia and Zambia. But there isn't much point in taking road bikes out to those countries and giving them to some poor kids (to make you feel good about yourself?) because pretty quickly something will break and they won't have the money to fix them (assuming the spares are even available in the country, which they probably won't be). Even in Ethiopia there are roads that are good for road bikes so if someone really wanted to ride a road bike there then the quality of the roads wouldn't necessarily stop them (particularly with the number of Chinese road projects these days).

More than likely any serious cyclists in most African countries will be from the middle classes, same as the OP is suggesting is the case in the UK.

Btw Africa doesn't need to be saved (saved from what anyway? :? ) it just needs to be left alone by interfering middle-classed white Americans and Europeans who think they know best.

deptfordmarmoset

Btw Africa doesn't need to be saved (saved from what anyway? ) it just needs to be left alone by interfering middle-classed white Americans and Europeans who think they know best.

I'd add ''...and be allowed to trade freely.'' Trading blocs have a strong tendency towards protectionism and African nations very often find themselves to be the excluded party.

Pork Sword

I originate from Birmingham and used to cycle with Black and Asian riders... however, I agree that most clubs are full of White, semi-middle class riders who see cycling as a sporting addition to their other activities. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of cycle commuters you see in urban areas are of lower-middle, or working class... usually, out of neccessity - due to the over-taxation and crap public transport we have to suffer in this country!

Cycling is not seen as a 'status' activity by a lot of black and Asian people so I can't see it taking off amongst those people here in the UK. However, I'm sure that African and Asian based cycling teams will eventually produce a rider who can compete at the highest level so perhaps that will lead to a greater take up of the sport amongst ethnic minorities in Britain with role models that come from different sport to the usual football, boxing and running arenas.

I think there is a definite distinction between cycling as a hobby/means of transport and a sporting activity. Some of the guys I ride with think nothing of spending upwards of 4-5k on a bike - something that a lot of 'normal' people wouldn't even consider - whatever their ethnic background!

Perhaps cycling needs to 'bling' up a bit more - could we get Dizzy Rascal on a club run?

bristolpete

amaferanga wrote:

Anyone who has been to Africa will know there are a LOT of bikes. I've even seen proper looking roadies in Ethiopia and Zambia. But there isn't much point in taking road bikes out to those countries and giving them to some poor kids (to make you feel good about yourself?) because pretty quickly something will break and they won't have the money to fix them (assuming the spares are even available in the country, which they probably won't be). Even in Ethiopia there are roads that are good for road bikes so if someone really wanted to ride a road bike there then the quality of the roads wouldn't necessarily stop them (particularly with the number of Chinese road projects these days).

More than likely any serious cyclists in most African countries will be from the middle classes, same as the OP is suggesting is the case in the UK.

Btw Africa doesn't need to be saved (saved from what anyway? :? ) it just needs to be left alone by interfering middle-classed white Americans and Europeans who think they know best.

Not to feel good about myself you twit, to make other people experience the joys of riding a bike. Simple as that.

bristolpete

Pork Sword wrote:

I originate from Birmingham and used to cycle with Black and Asian riders... however, I agree that most clubs are full of white, semi-middle class riders who see cycling as a sporting addition to their other activities. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of cycle commuters you see in urban areas are of lower-middle, or working class... usuually, out of neccessity - due to the over-taxation and crap public transport we have to suffer in this country!

Cycling is not seen as a 'status' activity by a lot of black and Asian people so I can't see it taking off amongst those people here in the UK. However, I'm sure that African and Asian based cycling teams will eventually produce a rider who can compete at the highest level so perhaps that will lead to a greater take up of the sport amongst ethnic minorities in Britain with role models that come from different sport to the usual football, boxing and running arenas.

I think there is a definite distinction between cycling as a hobby/means of transport and a sporting activity. Some of the guys I ride with think nothing of spending upwards of 4-5k on a bike - something that a lot of 'normal' people wouldn't even consider - whatever their ethnic background!

Perhaps cycling needs to 'bling' up a bit more - could we get Dizzy Rascal on a club run?

Great post - thanks for the reply. Have you heard Dizzy's new song? - its a cracker.

Pork Sword

Love the new track it's a TUNE! Dizzy is probably one of the best - if not THE best acts in the Country at the moment. His interview on Radio One the other week just cracked me up!

greasygrinder

In countries like India, China and Vietnam there are loads of cycles on the roads. As others have pointed out, this is largely from necessity. Bikes aren't aspirational because they're what you ride if you can't afford a motorbike (which is what your ride if you can't afford a car).

I think many people who emigrate to other countries want to leave behind the things they see as symbolising poverty in the Old Country. Cycling is one of those things.

I'm told it's the same reason that Americans seem to have a total antipathy to washing lines, even where they live in hot states where clothes would dry in 20 mins outside, they all use tumble driers. There's a kind of collective memory that hanging out washing = tenements or rural poverty.

amaferanga

bristolpete wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

Anyone who has been to Africa will know there are a LOT of bikes. I've even seen proper looking roadies in Ethiopia and Zambia. But there isn't much point in taking road bikes out to those countries and giving them to some poor kids (to make you feel good about yourself?) because pretty quickly something will break and they won't have the money to fix them (assuming the spares are even available in the country, which they probably won't be). Even in Ethiopia there are roads that are good for road bikes so if someone really wanted to ride a road bike there then the quality of the roads wouldn't necessarily stop them (particularly with the number of Chinese road projects these days).

More than likely any serious cyclists in most African countries will be from the middle classes, same as the OP is suggesting is the case in the UK.

Btw Africa doesn't need to be saved (saved from what anyway? :? ) it just needs to be left alone by interfering middle-classed white Americans and Europeans who think they know best.

Not to feel good about myself you twit, to make other people experience the joys of riding a bike. Simple as that.

Ever been to Africa? Like I said there're are loads of bikes.

passout

amaferanga wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

Anyone who has been to Africa will know there are a LOT of bikes. I've even seen proper looking roadies in Ethiopia and Zambia. But there isn't much point in taking road bikes out to those countries and giving them to some poor kids (to make you feel good about yourself?) because pretty quickly something will break and they won't have the money to fix them (assuming the spares are even available in the country, which they probably won't be). Even in Ethiopia there are roads that are good for road bikes so if someone really wanted to ride a road bike there then the quality of the roads wouldn't necessarily stop them (particularly with the number of Chinese road projects these days).

More than likely any serious cyclists in most African countries will be from the middle classes, same as the OP is suggesting is the case in the UK.

Btw Africa doesn't need to be saved (saved from what anyway? :? ) it just needs to be left alone by interfering middle-classed white Americans and Europeans who think they know best.

Not to feel good about myself you twit, to make other people experience the joys of riding a bike. Simple as that.

Ever been to Africa? Like I said there're are loads of bikes.

I have and I agree that there are loads of bikes in Africa - Kenya anyway. In fact there are loads of bikes pretty much everywhere I've been (although less in America). I can't really see what the pre-occupation with Africa is on this particular topic, perhaps The Bible Belt would be a better target in terms of health benefits? They might appreciate a nutty cycle evangelical out there?

Headhuunter

greasygrinder wrote:

In countries like India, China and Vietnam there are loads of cycles on the roads. As others have pointed out, this is largely from necessity. Bikes aren't aspirational because they're what you ride if you can't afford a motorbike (which is what your ride if you can't afford a car).

I think many people who emigrate to other countries want to leave behind the things they see as symbolising poverty in the Old Country. Cycling is one of those things.

I'm told it's the same reason that Americans seem to have a total antipathy to washing lines, even where they live in hot states where clothes would dry in 20 mins outside, they all use tumble driers. There's a kind of collective memory that hanging out washing = tenements or rural poverty.

To a certain extent this view of the bicycle as something the poor use to get around is only just disappearing in the UK. My dad always laughs at things like the bike to work scheme and people in London's view of cycle comuters as new and perhaps unwelcome additions to the road. Up until the 1950s private transport in the UK was dominated but the bicycle, he says he remembers turn out time at big factories/rush hour saw thousands upon thousands of bikes on the road which working class people used to get home. Only relatively recently have people been more affluent and able to afford cars and in some sectors of society, notably the "working class" people are still very resiatant to getting on a bike as it seems like some kind of backward step. People from relatively wealthy families are less resitant to cycling as a means of transport as there is less history of being forced to use a bicycle to get around.

mroli

Interesting though - as cycling becomes more the "preserve" of the middle classes, will it become aspirational for the working class again?

Or are we now in the situation where "class" doesn't exist?

Or even where being "middle class" is not aspirational anymore.

One for the sociologists I think.

In relation to cycling overseas - I have recently spent some time in Belize where they really only have 3 roads that you can cycle on. It is bloody hot there, the road conditions are terrible, drivers erratic and often drunk. Bikes are horrendously expensive due to high import duty and the country is pretty poor. Population is small too. But there is a thriving road race scene out there - every weekend there seems to be a race going on, with seniors/juniors and women also having races. Despite all the disadvantages, it seem to be really going on and is much a national support as football.

Aggieboy

Apparently, not in Selby, Manchester it isn't.

Mad Roadie

Aggieboy
isnt the original OP comment racist?

0scar

I don't know much about the race aspect (or rather, I've seen enough discussions about race on this board to know better than to get embroiled in one,) but if you accept that income can *often* be a determinant of class I think there is a divide between two kinds of cyclist. Cycling is cost effective way to commute so it's appealing to people on low incomes, particularly over commutes of less than five miles. You can ride to work quite happily on a <£100 hack without it becoming a significant part of your life. The difference I think is if you want to get into it as a hobby - the point at which you would join the second group of cyclists. The initial realisation of just how inadequate your planned budget for a 'proper' bike is - a bike with drops and Tiagra or better is knocking on £700 - demonstrates the main barrier stopping a lot of people from getting into cycling as a sport.

I think OP needs to refine the question - are you talking about commuting, or riding as a hobby? Because I think the answer is quite different depending on which group you look at.

DonDaddyD

In some of the Countries/Continents (Africa is a Continent - big place) there are less stringent road laws and awareness of rad safety so riding a bike is ultimately more dangerous so less people do it, despite the affordability.