Brown's 'Prescott' moment?

Cressers

No doubt it'll be smoothed over so that it never happened...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/ ... 649012.stm

john-e-big-guns

Sounds like the 'Brown' as hit the fan

rick_chasey

Poor guy.

The mistake was forgetting he was miked.

She sounds pretty awful and bigotted.

People want honest politicians, but when he says what he thinks he gets shafted.

*shrugs*

Then again, I'm not a Labour supporter, so maybe I should be pleased.

verloren

"bigot: a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own"

would that extend to, say, accusing people with views different to yours of being bigots?

rick_chasey

verloren wrote:

"bigot: a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own"

would that extend to, say, accusing people with views different to yours of being bigots?

Haha, so calling anyone ever a bigot is hypocritical?

z0rT10ok

Just been in the car at lunchtime and heard nothing else for the last hour. She didn't sound particularly bigoted to me I must admit, admittedly she wasn't as eloquent as the prime minister but then she was 'only' a 60odd year old lady trying to get her point across, not a public speaker...

Nevermind, I'm sure it won't come up in tomorrows debate... :twisted:

Giant Jon

Rick Chasey wrote:

Poor guy.

The mistake was forgetting he was miked.

She sounds pretty awful and bigotted.

People want honest politicians, but when he says what he thinks he gets shafted.

*shrugs*

Then again, I'm not a Labour supporter, so maybe I should be pleased.

Is it honest to say a totally different thing behind her back once he has left her? If they were his honest beliefs, why didn't he a) tell her? and b) stick by them and not suddenly start apologising and say he didn't mean it?

I think he showed just how much contempt he has for Joe Public. Maybe if he listened to his supporters he may gain a few more votes. Just telling everybody 'you are wrong' is surely not the best way to get re-elected, is it? Especially after the outstanding mess he made of the economy... Looks like the final nail in the coffin in my opinion

rick_chasey

Giant Jon wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Poor guy.

The mistake was forgetting he was miked.

She sounds pretty awful and bigotted.

People want honest politicians, but when he says what he thinks he gets shafted.

*shrugs*

Then again, I'm not a Labour supporter, so maybe I should be pleased.

Is it honest to say a totally different thing behind her back once he has left her? If they were his honest beliefs, why didn't he a) tell her? and b) stick by them and not suddenly start apologising and say he didn't mean it?

I think he showed just how much contempt he has for Joe Public. Maybe if he listened to his supporters he may gain a few more votes. Just telling everybody 'you are wrong' is surely not the best way to get re-elected, is it? Especially after the outstanding mess he made of the economy... Looks like the final nail in the coffin in my opinion

Especially after the outstanding mess he made of the economy...

For the last time it was GLOBAL recession, the biggest ever since the great depression.
:roll:


Listening to the response, it wasn't so much contempt. There wasn't any contempt in his voice. Just he felt she was bigotted and made him look like a pr!ck. Now she's all loving the attention she's getting. Pfft.

The guy's only human. I bet everyone on the election trail says sh!t like that all the time!

verloren

Rick Chasey wrote:

verloren wrote:

"bigot: a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own"

would that extend to, say, accusing people with views different to yours of being bigots?

Haha, so calling anyone ever a bigot is hypocritical?

Kind of - it just highlights that bigotry is largely a value term. For example, I am 100% positive in my belief that adults shouldn't have sexual relations with pre-teens, and I will listen to no argument from anyone that tries to say otherwise, because they are categorically wrong. Technically that makes me a bigot, right? What I'm claiming isn't a matter of fact, it's just an opinion, so my strict adherence to it is bigotry. But that's not the term almost anyone outside of NAMBLA would use to describe my view.

So in a way, you're right - everyone with a firm opinion is arguably bigoted, and if they see that quality in others then they are arguably being hypocritical.

Chris James

Giant Jon wrote:

Is it honest to say a totally different thing behind her back once he has left her? If they were his honest beliefs, why didn't he a) tell her? and b) stick by them and not suddenly start apologising and say he didn't mean it?

....

Especially after the outstanding mess he made of the economy... Looks like the final nail in the coffin in my opinion

I suspect that, if he had called her a bigot to her face, then you would be complaining about that, rather than saluting his honesty.

Do you believe that Nick Clegg and David Cameron aren't being equally two faced?

Incidentally, do you tell your fellow work mates that you think some of them are tossers and that you don't really like your wife's new haircut etc etc... hypocrisy is what makes society run smoothly.

pb21

Classic :faceplam: moment!

Allez Mark

Rick Chasey wrote:

Poor guy.

The mistake was forgetting he was miked.

She sounds pretty awful and bigotted.

People want honest politicians, but when he says what he thinks he gets shafted.

*shrugs*

Then again, I'm not a Labour supporter, so maybe I should be pleased.

Eh! In what part of that article does she sound bigotted.

Giant Jon

Rick Chasey wrote:

Giant Jon wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Poor guy.

The mistake was forgetting he was miked.

She sounds pretty awful and bigotted.

People want honest politicians, but when he says what he thinks he gets shafted.

*shrugs*

Then again, I'm not a Labour supporter, so maybe I should be pleased.

Is it honest to say a totally different thing behind her back once he has left her? If they were his honest beliefs, why didn't he a) tell her? and b) stick by them and not suddenly start apologising and say he didn't mean it?

I think he showed just how much contempt he has for Joe Public. Maybe if he listened to his supporters he may gain a few more votes. Just telling everybody 'you are wrong' is surely not the best way to get re-elected, is it? Especially after the outstanding mess he made of the economy... Looks like the final nail in the coffin in my opinion

Especially after the outstanding mess he made of the economy...

For the last time it was GLOBAL recession, the biggest ever since the great depression.
:roll:


Listening to the response, it wasn't so much contempt. There wasn't any contempt in his voice. Just he felt she was bigotted and made him look like a pr!ck. Now she's all loving the attention she's getting. Pfft.

The guy's only human. I bet everyone on the election trail says sh!t like that all the time!

"For the last time"?? Don't be so condescending.

"No contempt in his voice" If I write: 'he was an idiot', are you saying that there is no contempt in that?? Is something only funny if you laugh at the same time as saying it?? By calling her anything at all derogatory he was showing contempt. If you don't agree, fair enough, in my view he was.

And Chris James, obviously I must be abnormal for not lying about my points of view. Unfortunately I believe in honesty, and find it incredibly frustrating when people lie to me. Which seems to be most of the time these days.

alfablue

Giant Jon

You are a deluded fool if you think always tell people honestly what you think of them. In fact, I think that makes you a two faced liar! I think you are also a bigot for condemning people who have a different approach.


There, that was honest, was that a good idea?

rick_chasey

Allez Mark wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Poor guy.

The mistake was forgetting he was miked.

She sounds pretty awful and bigotted.

People want honest politicians, but when he says what he thinks he gets shafted.

*shrugs*

Then again, I'm not a Labour supporter, so maybe I should be pleased.

Eh! In what part of that article does she sound bigotted.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010 ... transcript

There...?

A video too: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010 ... oted-woman

rick_chasey

verloren wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

verloren wrote:

"bigot: a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own"

would that extend to, say, accusing people with views different to yours of being bigots?

Haha, so calling anyone ever a bigot is hypocritical?

Kind of - it just highlights that bigotry is largely a value term. For example, I am 100% positive in my belief that adults shouldn't have sexual relations with pre-teens, and I will listen to no argument from anyone that tries to say otherwise, because they are categorically wrong. Technically that makes me a bigot, right? What I'm claiming isn't a matter of fact, it's just an opinion, so my strict adherence to it is bigotry. But that's not the term almost anyone outside of NAMBLA would use to describe my view.

So in a way, you're right - everyone with a firm opinion is arguably bigoted, and if they see that quality in others then they are arguably being hypocritical.

Sure. But think we can take that when Brown calls someone a bigot, he's not saying it because the just disagree with them.

He says it because he thinks they're generally predjudice against stuff they shouldn't be.

In this case, the whole immigration blah, which Duffy brought up. " You can't say anything about the immigrants because you're saying that you're … but all these eastern European what are coming in, where are they flocking from?"


Either way, I doubt it's done him any favours...

Giant Jon

alfablue wrote:

Giant Jon

You are a deluded fool if you think always tell people honestly what you think of them. In fact, I think that makes you a two faced liar! I think you are also a bigot for condemning people who have a different approach.


There, that was honest, was that a good idea?

not exactly what i meant, but hey, each to their own. You don't have to name-call to be honest.

bikey2009

The Guardian link above is to a very short transcript of part of the discussion. The link below is to a video of the meeting, it last over 4 minutes and the "immigration" issue lasts about 5 seconds.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/poli ... 649308.stm

alfablue

Sorry about the name calling Jon. It was an attempt at irony, in an unguarded moment. It is never my wish to offend anyone, I apologise unreservedly!

rick_chasey

bikey2009 wrote:

The Guardian link above is to a very short transcript of part of the discussion. The link below is to a video of the meeting, it last over 4 minutes and the "immigration" issue lasts about 5 seconds.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/poli ... 649308.stm

It's the bit he's refering to, and the bit that would have ended up on the TV.

Obviously it will now, but for different reasons.

topcattim

The reporting of this seems to have got the hyperbole in front of the facts. Can't defend Brown for what he did - but then which of us haven't behaved similarly?

But they keep reporting how she had been on her way to post her postal ballot when she bumped into Brown - but elsewhere she says she had this at home, ready to be posted (or perhaps not, in the light of recent events).

The bit that bothers me is the line that "this just shows how Brown 'loses it' behind closed doors when he is under pressure". Seems to me he was pretty moderate (note, I'm not saying he was right to call her bigoted, just that the way in which he behaved in his car was moderate). If the worst I (and many of us) ever did was mutter, "Ridiculous" in a peeved manner, then the world would be a better place!

cheehee

Duffy: You can't say anything about the immigrants because you're saying that you're … but all these eastern European what are coming in, where are they flocking from?

Errr Eastern Europe perhaps?..................and I thought she was just a crap singer, not a bigotted crap singer

Giant Jon

alfablue wrote:

Sorry about the name calling Jon. It was an attempt at irony, in an unguarded moment. It is never my wish to offend anyone, I apologise unreservedly!

I kindof suspected! I've always been a bit slow on the uptake. I'm just surprised nobody has called me a hypocrite for venting off steam in my original post: just like Gordon Brown did after the interview I'm going now before I look any more stupid lol

verylonglegs

He was farked anyway and now he's just really farked. You can argue all day about whether everyone else does it or not, he's the one who was caught and it's going to hurt his party at the polls. He knows this hence the high risk strategy of going back to her house to apologise.

bikey2009

Rick Chasey wrote:

bikey2009 wrote:

The Guardian link above is to a very short transcript of part of the discussion. The link below is to a video of the meeting, it last over 4 minutes and the "immigration" issue lasts about 5 seconds.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/poli ... 649308.stm

It's the bit he's refering to, and the bit that would have ended up on the TV.

Obviously it will now, but for different reasons.

I was trying to give the subject some time context, she had lots to say to Brown, not just about immigration

Giant Jon

cheehee wrote:

Duffy: You can't say anything about the immigrants because you're saying that you're … but all these eastern European what are coming in, where are they flocking from?

Errr Eastern Europe perhaps?..................and I thought she was just a crap singer, not a bigotted crap singer

SteveR_100Milers

I'm no fan of Brown, mostly because its clear that he lacks any real inspirational leadership, and has probably put NL back a couple of decades in popularity, which is all too obvious from the many comments that are so critical of him, some of them bordering oin ludicrous; but that's the sad thing, policy is lost amongst the (lack of) persona. Cameron might yet win, and it will not be because his way is any more correct, indeed their slogan of "vote for change" is pretty unambitious in that it requires no thoughtful analysis; but it will be because he has convinced more people that he is less of a numpty. Look at the poles after the first televised debate for proof of the shallow view and understanding of policy that the majority of the British public have.
He is not a stupid man, far from it, indeed his problem is that he is too intellectual to the point of exclusion, witness his famous lack of relationship with Blair when he was Chancellor; he has a track record of doing it his way only. This aloof approach all too often comes across as arrogance and disinterest in other people; sadly two qualities that you really ought to have as a popular leader.

Frank the tank

I think Gordon Browns comment shows how out of touch MP's are with issues that ordinary people are bothered about.

The woman was speaking candidly about all kinds of issues which were of concern to her. She mentioned immigration and "these eastern europeans" and get's labaled a bigot. At least she had the stomach to speak her truth, unlike most MP's who skate around such issues in case they get tarred as bigots.

bikey2009

Frank the tank wrote:

I think Gordon Browns comment shows how out of touch MP's are with issues that ordinary people are bothered about.

The woman was speaking candidly about all kinds of issues which were of concern to her. She mentioned immigration and "these eastern europeans" and get's labaled a bigot. At least she had the stomach to speak her truth, unlike most MP's who skate around such issues in case they get tarred as bigots.

In the transcript she says "You can't say anything about the immigrants because you're saying that you're... " before her words tail off to something else, but it seems like she was right because no other than the PM of Great Britain labels her a bigot :shock:

I wonder if that could be consider as slander? Will some lawyer be in touch with her about suing the PM? I believe if Brown said that at a time other than the run up to a general election he would be under great pressure to resign his post.

Smokin Joe

So someone who expresses concerns about immigration is a bigot? Then count me as one, along with many millions more.

It is the attempt to stifle any debate on the subject that drives people to the BNP. Brown is a stupid prat. As for his record on the economy, voting for him to pull us out of recession is like getting sick and going to Dr Harold Shipman for a cure.

carrock

They seem to have glossed over the fact that she's a 66 year old widow and part of what she was asking is why she gets taxed so much on her widow's pension.

Not the spiteful bigotted old wretch that Brown obviously thought she is

As usual, the Daily Mash captures this perfectly http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/ ... 004282688/

Senior Labour figures have expressed unease at Mr Brown's new tactic but there are suggestions that unbridled verbal assaults on elderly widows could strengthen the party's position with the thousands of educated, middle class voters who are embarrassed by their own parents.

One Labour source said: "We'll have to wait for the overnight numbers, but if it's working then from now until polling day we'll be targeting defenceless old ladies, preferably wheelchair-bound after a violent robbery.

"Perhaps he could hit one of them in the face with a spanner