fixie / single speed newbie questions

Ollieda

Hi,

I'm currently building up a single speed bike from an old bike / various spare parts. Just wondering, do i need to lube the chain like on a road bike?

It might sound like a stupid question and I would imagine you do need to lube because of some sort of "chain gripping cogs propely" or some technical reason like that but am I just being silly and setting myself up for needlessly using up chain lube?

Also I'm quite interested in getting a flip flop hub on the rear wheel so I can begin to venture into fixie riding. I did query getting a hub and having it switched with the one I have on my current wheel but I was told by the LBS mech that it would probably cost as much as buying a new wheel. I've been looking around online and can't seem to find anything on the cheaper end of the market (this is a budget build), are flip flop hubs generaly an expensive thing or am I just looking in the wrong places? maybe I should leave this part of the project till further down the line!

mankybianchi

On-one sell cheap flip flop hubs. http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/HUOOLF/on-o ... etrack-hub. Black, silver etc. They are fixed/fixed ie both sides have theads for lock rings but you can still put a single freewheel on there instead if that's what you want.

If going the fixed route you need to ensure that the chainline is straight, not quite so important with single speed.

Zachariah

I've got a SS with 48/20 chainrings and after getting used to it, I'm spinning out on everything but uphill sections.

LBS has a 16T rear freewheel but I'm worried this would be too much of a step up. But would I even notice the difference with an 18T freewheel? (going fixed is not an option, I need to coast!)

I've got what looks like a Shimano-type freewheel now (bike is a Gary Fisher Triton). Could I just buy a tool like this and do it myself? What grease should I put on it?

dreamlx10

Hi Olieda,

First if you are going to get into this type of riding the type of bike is not that important. First thing you must learn is that it is a "Fixed" not a "Fixie". Also before you learn any bad habits from people on here it is not a "Flip-Flop" hub but a "Fixed-Gear" hub, or "Double Fixed". I am not trying to be overly pedantic, but I do think that it is important to use the correct terminology at the outset, otherwise you end up sounding like a yankee tart. We should all be careful or we'll end up saying "Campy" before we know it. Good luck with the fixed it is great fun.

bluefoam

dreamlx10 wrote:

Hi Olieda,

First if you are going to get into this type of riding the type of bike is not that important. First thing you must learn is that it is a "Fixed" not a "Fixie". Also before you learn any bad habits from people on here it is not a "Flip-Flop" hub but a "Fixed-Gear" hub, or "Double Fixed". I am not trying to be overly pedantic, but I do think that it is important to use the correct terminology at the outset, otherwise you end up sounding like a yankee tart. We should all be careful or we'll end up saying "Campy" before we know it. Good luck with the fixed it is great fun.

you must also wear tight jeans and a racing cap. Scruff your bike up so that it looks ragged, the most important thing is to distinguish yourself from hipsters, who you will look at in disdain - even though you put more effort into your look than they do.

stickman

What about when someone wants to convert a singlespeed hub to fixed, I heard that people use an old style bb lockring on the hub, do they fail easily and does that mean proper lockrings can't be bought for a ss-fixed conversion?

Edit: I just saw Gareth's comment on this, but if anyone wants to add...

Ollieda

dreamlx10 wrote:

Hi Olieda,

First if you are going to get into this type of riding the type of bike is not that important. First thing you must learn is that it is a "Fixed" not a "Fixie". Also before you learn any bad habits from people on here it is not a "Flip-Flop" hub but a "Fixed-Gear" hub, or "Double Fixed". I am not trying to be overly pedantic, but I do think that it is important to use the correct terminology at the outset, otherwise you end up sounding like a yankee tart. We should all be careful or we'll end up saying "Campy" before we know it. Good luck with the fixed it is great fun.

Ok, I stand corrected on the fixed / fixie termanology. But wouldn't both a "fixed-gear" hub (just one cog side that is fixed) and "double fixed" hub (as I understand it, a fixed cog on both side) be different to what I was trying to acheive. I understand that I can take a double fixed hub and put a put on a sprocket with the freewheel built in to acheive the effect (as mentioned by MankyBianchi) but surely there are hubs out there that are themselves fixed on one side and free on the other, hence the term flip-flop hub (which is the term even SheldonBrown uses)

Any answers out there as to my question regarding lube?

bluefoam

Ollieda wrote:

Ok, I stand corrected on the fixed / fixie termanology. But wouldn't both a "fixed-gear" hub (just one cog side that is fixed) and "double fixed" hub (as I understand it, a fixed cog on both side) be different to what I was trying to acheive. I understand that I can take a double fixed hub and put a put on a sprocket with the freewheel built in to acheive the effect (as mentioned by MankyBianchi) but surely there are hubs out there that are themselves fixed on one side and free on the other, hence the term flip-flop hub (which is the term even SheldonBrown uses)

you are right, a ss on one side & fg on the other is a flip flop. I assume the other poster is just being pretentious. Enjoy your bike and don't give a crap about other peoples snobby preconceptions.

I have nothing to offer re: lube

dreamlx10

you are right, a ss on one side & fg on the other is a flip flop

It isn't you know !

I assume the other poster is just being pretentious.

No I am not ! I was dug up for saying flip-flop at my LBS by the owner and highly respected wheelbuilder.

bluefoam

Flip-flop hubs, also called double-sided hubs, are rear bicycle hubs that are threaded to accept fixed cogs and/or freewheels on both sides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip-flop_hub

Ollieda

Flip-flop, or double-sided hubs are threaded on both sides. Usually one side has a track-type threading, (with lockring) and the other side is threaded for a single-speed standard freewheel.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/singlespeed.html

Until someone shows me a strong arguement against it, i'm sticking with flip-flop

dreamlx10

i'm sticking with flip-flop

Well you do have a picture of a Rabbit as an avatar !!

Ollieda

I'm not really sure where the joke is there......

dreamlx10

I'm not really sure where the joke is there......

It's not a joke !

GarethPJ

dreamlx10 wrote:

Hi Olieda,

First if you are going to get into this type of riding the type of bike is not that important. First thing you must learn is that it is a "Fixed" not a "Fixie". Also before you learn any bad habits from people on here it is not a "Flip-Flop" hub but a "Fixed-Gear" hub, or "Double Fixed". I am not trying to be overly pedantic, but I do think that it is important to use the correct terminology at the outset, otherwise you end up sounding like a yankee tart. We should all be careful or we'll end up saying "Campy" before we know it. Good luck with the fixed it is great fun.

Oh dear. Are you still trolling out your purist nonsense. The English language does not have rigid rules like that. And as for sounding like "yankees" it's worth pointing out that much of their use of English is historically more accurate than our own because they are much keener on sticking to the "rules" of language and spelling whereas British English or perhaps English English has evolved over the centuries. A lot of American English has remained static for some considerable time. At least they can spell stabilize correctly, unlike most Brits who spell it in a decidedly French influenced way. :P

stickman

I like how the Americans say 'tomato' the proper way and not in a London dialect. I'm glad we, outside London, still say 'potato' correctly.

GarethPJ

Furthermore maybe Americans can tell the difference between a noun and an adjective. :P

Jimbo.

Zachariah wrote:

I've got a SS with 48/20 chainrings and after getting used to it, I'm spinning out on everything but uphill sections.

LBS has a 16T rear freewheel but I'm worried this would be too much of a step up. But would I even notice the difference with an 18T freewheel? (going fixed is not an option, I need to coast!)

I've got what looks like a Shimano-type freewheel now (bike is a Gary Fisher Triton). Could I just buy a tool like this and do it myself? What grease should I put on it?

Sadly, the freewheel on the Triton is a Dicta job which cannot be removed normally: it's a cheap, throwaway part that can only be removed in a destructive manner (see the Park Tool website).

Shimano/White Industries make 16/17/18t freehwheels if you want. Get the LBS to remove, buy freehwheel of your choice, buy the proper Shimano tool off them, and away you go.

GarethPJ

Odd. I've managed to get Dicta freewheel's off without destroying them. Or is there a specific type under discussion here?

stickman

When changing from singlespeed to fixed do people usually have the same ratio or go a bit higher?

Clever Pun

it's fixed or fixed gear only a tool uses fixie

Stickman, in my experience I would reduce you gear inches when first swapping from SS to fixed... (just increase the rear cog by one tooth) see how you get on, as your strength and control increase you can start upping your GI if you feel comfortable

I'd heartily recommend the miche system as it makes it really easy to mess around with your GI.

for example
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Miche_Fixed_Track_Sprocket/5360040748/
I suspect you'd still need a lockring for that and I'm sure you can buy the sprockets without the carrier too as I've done so in the past.

GarethPJ

Clever Pun wrote:

it's fixed or fixed gear only a tool uses fixie

Stickman, in my experience I would reduce you gear inches when first swapping from SS to fixed... (just increase the rear cog by one tooth) see how you get on, as your strength and control increase you can start upping your GI if you feel comfortable

I'd heartily recommend the miche system as it makes it really easy to mess around with your GI.

for example
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Miche_Fixed_Track_Sprocket/5360040748/
I suspect you'd still need a lockring for that and I'm sure you can buy the sprockets without the carrier too as I've done so in the past.

Firstly if you're going to be pedantic it's fixed wheel not fixed gear the two do seem to have become interchangeable, but it definitely fixed wheel that is the correct term. After all you wouldn't refer to a freewheel equipped bike as a freegear would you? Perhaps fixed gear originates from a misunderstanding in the days when a fixed/free hub equipped with a multi sprocket block on the freewheel side was referred to as a fixed/gear hub? Or maybe it comes from the mistaken assumption that all fixed wheel bikes have a fixed ratio? Maybe. Maybe not. But it's still not the precisely correct term.

On the subject of gear ratio I have found that most people prefer a taller gear when moving to fixed, this is mainly because a lower gear puts less force into your legs when you are slowing down. It' generally a case of suck it and see. I agree that the Miche system is good for changing ratios quickly, but it seems to be harder to get hold of than it was and it's a major investment compared with buying a bunch of cheap used sprockets until you hit on your favourite ratio.

Oh and while we're on the subject of gear ratios, you're the first person I have come across who talks about adjusting your gear inches. Most people would speak of adjusting their gear ratio, gear inches just being one way (and not the best way) of measuring your gearing. After all you talk about adjusting your belt, not your waist inches.

stickman

Thank you, both

Clever Pun

amazing pedantry Gareth.. Well done you.
I go with what Sheldon says
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_e-f.html#fixed

Sheldon Brown wrote:

The pedals of a fixed-gear bicycle revolve whenever the rear wheel turns; coasting is impossible. This type of gearing is usually associated with track racing.See my article on fixed-gears.

With all due respect I suspect he knew a few things more than you do about this.


it's all relative and people I've spoken to use GI not GR. To clarify; a gear ratio from a 48-16 would be 3... how does that really help explain anything?

GarethPJ

Firstly Sheldon was a yank and they speak a different language. However the assumption that he understood the origins of words just because he was a very good bicycle mechanic and committed cyclist is somewhat flawed. When I hear somebody asking for a freegear then maybe I'll consider fixed gear is as accurate as fixed wheel.

When I speak of adjusting gear ratios I don't just mean the ratio between the two sprockets, I'm thinking of other variables too. Your crank length is a very important when considering your gear ratio. Since you rate Sheldon Brown so highly I suggest that you read what he has to say on measuring your gearing.

I have two bikes outside at the moment, one has 180mm cranks a 46/16 ratio and 559x38 tyres. The other has 165mm cranks, a 42/16 ratio and 622x32 tyres. The gear inches for the two bikes would suggest that the former bike has a gear ratio that is slightly higher than than the latter. The reality of riding the bike would suggest otherwise. The small wheeled bike's ratio feels significantly lower. Most of this is probably down to the length of the cranks that does it, as suggested by Sheldon Brown.

I suspect also that some of it comes from the fact that the cheap but very puncture proof tyres on the big wheeled commuter are slower rolling than those on the small wheeled hack. Something that simply isn't taken into account when comparing any normal method of measuring gearing. Something else that has an effect particularly when pulling away from a standstill is the size of the wheels, smaller wheels will accelerate more quickly all other things being equal. OTOH bigger wheels will, all other things being equal, roll better at speed. So if it were possible to build two identical bikes with the same tyres and development ratios but one on 650c rims and the other on 700c rims you would probably find that the smaller wheeled bike felt lower geared off the line, but the bigger wheeled bike might feel somewhat lower geared at speed.

My original point being that I've never heard anybody talking about "adjusting their gear inches". People might talk about adjusting their gear ratio, or perhaps adjusting their gearing. But I honestly have never heard anybody say "I've just altered my gear inches". They might describe their gearing in inches, but that's not the same thing.

Oddlly enough most people don't bother taking the tyre size into account when calculating their gear inches, so the whole thing becomes meaningless. Everybody just assumes that for road bikes your starting point is 27 inches but ot many road tyres come close to 27 inches. Even the professionals make that mistake when confronted with a bike with odd sized wheels. A review I read last year quoted some seriously odd gear inches for a folding bike. It appears the editors had assumed a 27 inch diameter for the folder's little wheels.

bluefoam

who gives a shit, call it what you want

GarethPJ

bluefoam wrote:

who gives a shoot, call it what you want

Just so long as everybody knows what you're talking about you are, of course, right. The job of language is to communicate, no matter what Websters might think.

My original post was more about being deliberately pedantic in response to somebody else's pedantry. Sort of a pedantic version of socratic irony if you like.

bluefoam

bluefoam wrote:

who gives a shoot, call it what you want

Hang on, I didn't say that. I said shit

Clever Pun

bluefoam wrote:

bluefoam wrote:

who gives a shoot, call it what you want

Hang on, I didn't say that. I said shit

it's got an automated spell check that turns naughty word clean.

if you must swear.. it is big and clever after all. put italics/bold/underline in the word

For example (hit the quote button to see what I've done)
shit

Be careful though there are some delicate flowers out there

now to go back and read Gareth's essay (didn't get very far, just about to the xenophobic comment )