Evans is better at 1 day races than GTs

rick_chasey
rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
edited April 2010 in Pro race
There.

I've said it.

Anyone agree?

If not, why not?
_

Comments

  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Grand Tour 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
    Giro 14
    Tour 8 4 2 2 29
    Vuelta 60 4 3

    5 out of 9 are top 5

    So no. I think he's good at both.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    iainf72 wrote:
    Grand Tour 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
    Giro 14
    Tour 8 4 2 2 29
    Vuelta 60 4 3

    5 out of 9 are top 5

    So no. I think he's good at both.

    He's good a both, no doubt.

    D'ya not think if he focussed more on 1 day races, rather than using them as form builders he'd do even better?

    I'd be surprised if he was on top form right now.
    _
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    But what are the one dayers he's supposed to target? It's only this week and Lombardy that suit him. He's always going to be GT rider who is also good at one dayers, not the other way around.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    afx237vi wrote:
    But what are the one dayers he's supposed to target? It's only this week and Lombardy that suit him. He's always going to be GT rider who is also good at one dayers, not the other way around.

    For sure.

    He would actually win stuff though!
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Also, I'm not saying he should focus more on the one dayers, but I do think that, were he to put the same focus on 1 dayers as GTs (obviously only possible in hypothetical terms) I recon he'd be more successful in the one dayers.
    _
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,909
    well you say that now.......

    :lol:
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    mididoctors wrote:
    well you say that now.......

    :lol:

    Yeah, I'm like a cycling Andy Grey I know.

    "See, I know they'd score a goal in the match!"
    _
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,909
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    well you say that now.......

    :lol:

    Yeah, I'm like a cycling Andy Grey I know.

    "See, I know they'd score a goal in the match!"

    :lol:

    and if he wins the giro?


    ok clever clogs cards on the table

    is he going to win the giro

    yes or no
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    mididoctors wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    well you say that now.......

    :lol:

    Yeah, I'm like a cycling Andy Grey I know.

    "See, I know they'd score a goal in the match!"

    :lol:

    and if he wins the giro?


    ok clever clogs cards on the table

    is he going to win the giro

    yes or no

    Yes...
    _
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    Decent TTer and climber - if he threw everything at it, what about a solo victory in Milan-San Remo?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    johnfinch wrote:
    Decent TTer and climber - if he threw everything at it, what about a solo victory in Milan-San Remo?

    I don't think he has quite enough explosiveness for MSR.

    Also, the only non-sprinter to win was Cancellara, and, well, he's quite unique.
    _
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    johnfinch wrote:
    Decent TTer and climber - if he threw everything at it, what about a solo victory in Milan-San Remo?

    I don't think he has quite enough explosiveness for MSR.

    Also, the only non-sprinter to win was Cancellara, and, well, he's quite unique.

    I was thinking about getting away with some other decent similar type riders - Cunego, Gilbert etc on the Poggio and then attacking them in the final couple of km. I know it's a very, very long shot, but it'd be great to see him try.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    johnfinch wrote:
    Decent TTer and climber - if he threw everything at it, what about a solo victory in Milan-San Remo?

    I don't think he has quite enough explosiveness for MSR.

    Also, the only non-sprinter to win was Cancellara, and, well, he's quite unique.

    Pippo?
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    DaveyL wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    johnfinch wrote:
    Decent TTer and climber - if he threw everything at it, what about a solo victory in Milan-San Remo?

    I don't think he has quite enough explosiveness for MSR.

    Also, the only non-sprinter to win was Cancellara, and, well, he's quite unique.

    Pippo?

    Bettini?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Fignon?

    I meant recently.

    Pippo won it in a bunch sprint, lead out by Boonen.

    Bettini was also pretty handy in a spirnt.

    Evans is neither.
    _
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pippo won it in a bunch sprint, lead out by Boonen.

    Err, no. Pozatto was in the break and just as it was caught by the bunch, he jumped clear to win. He wasn't lead out by Boonen at all...
  • SpaceJunk
    SpaceJunk Posts: 1,157
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pippo won it in a bunch sprint, lead out by Boonen.

    Err, no. Pozatto was in the break and just as it was caught by the bunch, he jumped clear to win. He wasn't lead out by Boonen at all...

    Yep, everyone else started watching Boonen's wheel as the catch was fast approaching. Pippo just rode off into the sunset (metaphorically speaking).
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    SpaceJunk wrote:
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pippo won it in a bunch sprint, lead out by Boonen.

    Err, no. Pozatto was in the break and just as it was caught by the bunch, he jumped clear to win. He wasn't lead out by Boonen at all...

    Yep, everyone else started watching Boonen's wheel as the catch was fast approaching. Pippo just rode off into the sunset (metaphorically speaking).

    Fair enough.

    My Boonen fanness must be playing tricks on my mind.
    _
  • pedro118118
    pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    From what I've read in the past, he's more of a turbo diesel engine and needs a long hard race to wear down the opposition. Of course, there's more science to it that that (anaerobic v aerobic etc etc).

    Most races call for an explosive change of pace to win and he doesn't seem to have that. GT's offer him the opportunity to chug along and his consistancy (good climber, good TT rider, good rider in the wind, good bike handler) does the rest, as he doesn't lose a lot of time to the specialists.

    That said, he doesn't have what it takes to win (or at least regularly win) against the specialists.

    Also, you need a lot of luck in one day races and get your tactics spot on, which is exactly what happened in Mendrisio and Fleche.

    Also remember, he has the spint of disused fridge, which severely limits his chances in most one-day races - especially with the likes of Boonen, Valverde (booo hiiisssss), Gilbert, Friere, Cunego et al around...
  • richard wants a baum
    richard wants a baum Posts: 744
    I disagree with the idea that Cadel cant win purely on the basis that he cant sprint. So far his two major victories Worlds and FW were won by timing an attack withing the closing stages, he waits for the moment when everyone is looking at the others to do the work and gives it everything. This tactic could work in many of the Hilly Classics (obviously not going to win too many Cobbled ones). The question of whether he is a better One Day rider vs GC rider is eaisly answered with he is great at both. Though i do think that One Day Race's suit Cadel in so far as the pressure of 3 weeks of racing isnt a factor which i think can some times get the better of Cuddles sometimes.
    Take care of the luxuries and the necessites will take care of themselves.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    richard wants a baum wrote:
    I disagree with the idea that Cadel cant win purely on the basis that he cant sprint. So far his two major victories Worlds and FW were won by timing an attack withing the closing stages, he waits for the moment when everyone is looking at the others to do the work and gives it everything. This tactic could work in many of the Hilly Classics (obviously not going to win too many Cobbled ones). The question of whether he is a better One Day rider vs GC rider is eaisly answered with he is great at both. Though i do think that One Day Race's suit Cadel in so far as the pressure of 3 weeks of racing isnt a factor which i think can some times get the better of Cuddles sometimes.

    I think his lack of a good change of pace counts him out for MSR, not necessarily the others.
    _
  • richard wants a baum
    richard wants a baum Posts: 744
    Agree MSR isnt selective enough for Cadel
    Take care of the luxuries and the necessites will take care of themselves.
  • Pork Sword
    Pork Sword Posts: 213
    I think he's good at both, but there always has been/will be someone (Contador, Armstrong, Boonen etc.) who's stronger the majority of times so his chances of achieving wins are limited... I'm just glad he's decided to go for the win more rather than be the wheelsucker I've accused him of being in the past... proves he's far more settled at BMC and that he's feeling more confident now that he's wearing the World Champions jersey - go Cadel!
    let all your saddles be comfy and all your rides less bumpy....
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,909
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    well you say that now.......

    :lol:

    Yeah, I'm like a cycling Andy Grey I know.

    "See, I know they'd score a goal in the match!"

    :lol:

    and if he wins the giro?


    ok clever clogs cards on the table

    is he going to win the giro

    yes or no

    Yes...

    rapidly running out of team.... hope he does win but i suspect a huge Italian combine is going to appear...still menchov won i suppose


    yeah why not

    cuddles FTW
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    I reckon he's a very good stage racer and a very good one day racer - although he's won a couple of top class one day races I still think I'd say he's a better stage racer. If he'd targeted the Giro and Vuelta throughout his career I reckon he'd have a couple of wins by now.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    richard wants a baum wrote:
    Agree MSR isnt selective enough for Cadel

    Me too, I'd just like to see him do it.
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    I suppose it's possible if he could get a small gap at the top of the Poggio and then descended like a madman - I can't see him doing it but it'd be good to see someone have a read go at winning it on the descent.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • pedro118118
    pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    He is a contender at both GTs and one-day races - no doubt about that.

    That said, I still think that his his lack of a sprint is a key factor. Aside from Cancellara (who blows the field to pieces and TTs his way to wins), I can't think of another successful one-day races, who doesn't have a decent turn of speed at the finish - at least to win from a select group. Perhaps the Schlecks.

    He has no chance of ever winning MSR.
  • skut
    skut Posts: 371
    I think for the one-dayers it has less to do with form and more to do with tactics. He said himself in the F-W post-race interview that his was the first time he had recce'd the course, and it was apparent to me that he barely showed his face at the front in F-W compared to past races where he has gone too early, or done a pointless effort on the front (T-A this year maybe?)
  • pedro118118
    pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    I'm warming to him more.
    The win in Mendrisio seems to have given his self-esteem a huge boost and he's riding with more confidence and seems more relaxed. Whilst the 'nearly man' of the past few years was prickly, angry and full of nervous energy, which is a big problem in a 3-week GT.
    He has the ability to win more, but needs the luck and engineer finales, which don't end in a sprint!

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