Hard Knott & Wrynose - & a million cars?
bompington
Posts: 7,674
Looks like I'm going to be in Windermere the first weekend in May, so I'm hoping I can get at least a morning pass for a quick ride, and there are a few obvious wee hills I could tootle up & down...
The question is: what about bank holiday traffic? In the last 12 months or so I've done a fair few meaty hills in Scotland, Bealach, Glen Quaich etc, but I'm struggling at the moment with weight & fitness (read: "fat & slow") so I know it would be a push - I have driven over these roads so I've got an idea what they're like, it worries me a bit that if I'm struggling, any stops for traffic are going to be a pain, perhaps even stopping me dead if I had to give way on steeper bits.
Any comments from people more familiar with these climbs?
The question is: what about bank holiday traffic? In the last 12 months or so I've done a fair few meaty hills in Scotland, Bealach, Glen Quaich etc, but I'm struggling at the moment with weight & fitness (read: "fat & slow") so I know it would be a push - I have driven over these roads so I've got an idea what they're like, it worries me a bit that if I'm struggling, any stops for traffic are going to be a pain, perhaps even stopping me dead if I had to give way on steeper bits.
Any comments from people more familiar with these climbs?
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I rode over them yesterday and there were very few cars. Those that were out were very considerate. It will be busier on the Bank Holiday, but usually the May Day holiday isn't one of the busier ones. I'm afraid if I'm on Hardknott and Wrynose, I expect the cars to stop for me, and they usually do with good grace. Most people are just amazed to see cyclists riding on such steep terrain. Ironically the traffic seems to be at it's worst during the Fred Whitton when some of the less considerate riders have 'supporters' driving the course.
Good luck and hope you 'enjoy' the climbs!0 -
Bank holiday weekend in the Lake District is my idea of hell!
I would expect a fair bit of traffic apart from early in the morning.More problems but still living....0 -
Not been over them this year, but they aren't one of the busier tourist routes, you'll maybe encounter 4 or 5 cars on each and they're usually pretty considerate."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Mmmm, OK.
Another question: which way to do it? Basically, east to west or west to east? I've had a quick look online to see what the different sides are like - coming up Hard Knott from the west looks like the toughest, is that right?0 -
I think Wrynose from the east is as hard as Hardknott from the west, just in a slightly different way. Hardknott has two tough sections with a much flatter section in the middle to recover while Wrynose just goes on for a very long time with the steepest section right at the top. If you head up Wrynose from the east, down the Duddon, over Birker Fell [fairly steep itself and one of the best roads in the Lakes] down to Eskdale and then over Hardnott and Wrynose from the west you get the 'best' of both worlds!0
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Hardknott is toughest from the West, Wrynose from the East. The classic route taken by the Fred Whitton is to start from the West and do Hardknott followed by Wrynose. If you are wanting to do a circular ride, you will need to give some thought as to how you are going to get back to the start. Inevitably it involves more hills!
There are more details on these and other climbs here:
http://www.sportivecentral.com/index.php?p=climbs0 -
i live in the area and my advice if you want to do hardknot in the tourist season the go very early in the morning. First light. The only problem with this is the sheep come down off the fells to lay on the road at night. (warmer I suppose) and the buggers dont like moving. Later in the day and belive me you will have to stop dead .
could try red bank or the struggle, shorter but less hassle. or better still honister pass returning by whinlatter or newlands pass. have fun whatever you chose.0 -
I was there last september and shocked at the state of the road compared to last time I was there, what it is like following the winter god only knows .... or sally65 might be able to help,
but just a heads up0 -
they're not good. take care on those steep down hill bits. but what roads are good after that winter?0
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A COuple of years ago on the Fred there was a hole that had gone through the hardcore to the soil underneath... Not good!
A good route to do if you want the "best of both" is to go up Wrynose from the East, turn off at Cockley beck just before you start to climb up to Hardknott, go over Birka fell and then into eskdale where you can climb over Hardknott from the West.
Alternatively, if you're around on the saturday of BH weekend, me and acouple of teachers from my GFs school are doing Honister, Newlands and Whinlatter, I was over those last week and the roads are pretty decent."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
I live in Kendal and have ridden Hardknott and Wrynose numerous times this year, once with a fair amount of snow on! They're no worse than last year as they saw less traffic and less freeze thaw than many of the lower roads through the winter. The bottom of the Struggle and the crater over the Blea Tarn road are the worst bits of road I've seen recently although the Struggle should be resurfaced after this weekend.
As far as the traffic goes, I find people to be pretty considerate on the whole, especially on Hardknott. An early or late start is good but it's not essential.0 -
Sounds good, a quick check on bikehike says 80km and 1400m of climbing - I think that might be do-able at current fitness levels. Another thought that occurred to me is that the shortest, but not necessarily easiest way to go right over both passes from Windermere is to do just that - and then turn straight back again: 58km and 1450m climbing: that can't be too hard, can it? :?disgruntledgoat wrote:A good route to do if you want the "best of both" is to go up Wrynose from the East, turn off at Cockley beck just before you start to climb up to Hardknott, go over Birka fell and then into eskdale where you can climb over Hardknott from the West.0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:A COuple of years ago on the Fred there was a hole that had gone through the hardcore to the soil underneath... Not good!
A good route to do if you want the "best of both" is to go up Wrynose from the East, turn off at Cockley beck just before you start to climb up to Hardknott, go over Birka fell and then into eskdale where you can climb over Hardknott from the West.
Alternatively, if you're around on the saturday of BH weekend, me and acouple of teachers from my GFs school are doing Honister, Newlands and Whinlatter, I was over those last week and the roads are pretty decent.
I was a car passenger just before Christmas over this route and that scared the s**t out of me. There is no way on earth I would contemplate riding it unless I was under 10 stones and had 400W legs.....how the hell anyone gets over hardknott with a normal chainset and cassette is beyond me.0 -
SteveR_100Milers wrote:disgruntledgoat wrote:A COuple of years ago on the Fred there was a hole that had gone through the hardcore to the soil underneath... Not good!
A good route to do if you want the "best of both" is to go up Wrynose from the East, turn off at Cockley beck just before you start to climb up to Hardknott, go over Birka fell and then into eskdale where you can climb over Hardknott from the West.
Alternatively, if you're around on the saturday of BH weekend, me and acouple of teachers from my GFs school are doing Honister, Newlands and Whinlatter, I was over those last week and the roads are pretty decent.
I was a car passenger just before Christmas over this route and that scared the s**t out of me. There is no way on earth I would contemplate riding it unless I was under 10 stones and had 400W legs.....how the hell anyone gets over hardknott with a normal chainset and cassette is beyond me.
I've never used a compact chainset... It's doable on a 39x25. I just think of it as a series of short hard sprints and a lot of grinding in between. That said, I've been in a shocking state on them at the end of the Fred, keeled over sideways with cramp one year, the picture ended up in the local paper :oops:"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
That's what I like to hear, keep 'em coming.... :shock:disgruntledgoat wrote:That said, I've been in a shocking state on them at the end of the Fred, keeled over sideways with cramp one year, the picture ended up in the local paper :oops:
I've got double with 11-28 so I'm hoping that will do, that's certainly how I've got up any other biggish climbs I've done. I just don't know how bad my current fitness level is, only one way to find out...0 -
bompington wrote:
That's what I like to hear, keep 'em coming.... :shock:disgruntledgoat wrote:That said, I've been in a shocking state on them at the end of the Fred, keeled over sideways with cramp one year, the picture ended up in the local paper :oops:
I've got double with 11-28 so I'm hoping that will do, that's certainly how I've got up any other biggish climbs I've done. I just don't know how bad my current fitness level is, only one way to find out...
If you're road race fit you should be alright on that. If you're doing the ride I described above, there's only one steep section at the bottom of Birka fell so you'll get a decent recovery between your 1st climb of Wrynose and of Hardknott. The bit that always really hacks me off about Hardnott is the cattle grid at the bottom of the Western ascent that really kills your momentum just as it gets really steep!"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
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I would not say I am race fit but I have been over Hardknott and Wrynose ok on my winter bike with 40 chainring and a 28 on the back. I had a ride over there on Saturday morning and the gearing I used was 36 chainring with 26 on the cassette. The road surface was ok, its not like you will be going too fast over it!0
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LeighB wrote:I would not say I am race fit but I have been over Hardknott and Wrynose ok on my winter bike with 40 chainring and a 28 on the back. I had a ride over there on Saturday morning and the gearing I used was 36 chainring with 26 on the cassette. The road surface was ok, its not like you will be going too fast over it!
Sounds about right: I do Hardknott (West) or Wrynose (East) in 34x26 on a compact setup but for the FWC I've got a 34x29 in reserve considering the beast is at 99 miles.
On the original thread, me and my mate are setting off from Coniston at 9 on the Sun of the bank hol weekend to do a recce ride of the entire course (with cafe stops). So I'll probably see you at some point - feel free to join in if so inclined!0 -
After all this, the complications of life with a young family mean that I've had to put this one on hold - don't know when I'll next be in the Lakes but I'll be heading for the H&W passes then.
Meanwhile I'm just off to ride to work, 230m climb on the way just doesn't seem quite the same...0 -
...Or then again - 48 hours after discussing it & deciding it just wasn't going to fit in, Mrs Bomp arrived at work to pick me up on the way to the Lakes, and says "You grab your stuff while I load your bike".
Shame she didn't bring any of the little extras like water bottles, pump & spares, but it's the attitude that counts!
So off I go on Sunday at 6am, the answer to my original question is that there were very, very few cars on the roads, I have to confess to RLJing in a deserted Ambleside, once onto the narrow roads heading for Little Langdale I saw 4 cars in total all the way.
I would like to point out that it was time pressure that made me turn round & head back from the top of Wrynose, but it's not the truth, so I can't - at my current weight/fitness level, getting up that was as much as I could do. Is it possible actually to die from lactic acid poisoning, I wonder? I was down to a kind of "lunge, track stand, lunge" motion long before the top, my arms felt nearly as tired as my legs.
I kept passing signs warning of the impending Fred Whitton - my respect to all participants!
I will be back to burn all these hills up, once I'm fitter of course...0
