Cat and Fiddle

marcandre

Just got back from a ride up in the peak district. it killed me, although i was proud that i never stopped on the ascents.

here's the route that i did today, was a bit sluggish havent been cycling for 2-3weeks due to new job.

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/409890

just a question, what is people's average speed when ascenting various gradients? when im going up i seem to think im going incredibly slow.

ugo.santalucia

Aerobic (means I can keep going for at least 20 minutes or so... ) then I am around 900 vertical metres per hour.

To give you an idea I climb at aroud 10-12 mph on a 4-6% slope.
7.5-8 mph up a 7-8% slope.
More like 6-6.5 on a 9-10% slope.

Above that is survival speed (the one where your legs don't grind to a halt), which seems to be around 4-5 mph, regardless of the gradient (although above 15-16% it stops being an aerobic effort and I couldn't keep going for 20+ minutes).

My PB up Cat and Fiddle was 26-27 minutes or something similar from the junction

Does that answer your query?

Ands

marcandre wrote:

here's the route that i did today, was a bit sluggish havent been cycling for 2-3weeks due to new job.

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/409890

just a question, what is people's average speed when ascenting various gradients? when im going up i seem to think im going incredibly slow.

Hi there, I did my first Peak District ride over Easter. It was awesome - and yes, I was chuffed that I didn't stop at all on any of the climbs, or get off and walk. I went from Alderley out to Adlington, up the Brickworks, down to Kettleshulme, then right up Side End Ln to the top, left into the Goyt Valley yhen up to the Cat & Fiddle, down to Macc and back to Alderley via Birtles Ln. I didn't register my speed on all the climbs. The ride was 56km and I averaged 20.1 kph

What speeds did you do then? I remember up the Brickworks I tried to keep it above 10kph all the way. Obviously some bits were easier than others and I was going faster than 10kph. I went below 10 right near the top, down to about 8 I think. On the one up from Kettleshume I managed to stay out of my bottom gear. The worst one was the Adlington one - just a shock to the legs. I know my times were slow, but I was just happy to do what I could seeing as it was my first proper hilly ride.

What is the road like by Lamaload reservoir? The route I did took me just over 3hrs (total time including stops). I need to shorten that route for a midweek ride so was wondering what the road was like if I cut out the C&F and turned right at the top of Side End Ln and went back via Bollington.

marcandre

ugo.santalucia - thanks for your info, yes it did answer my questions. thanks for the response

Ands - my speeds didnt seem to great, im a metric person, but this stupid computer on my bike is only in mph (well probably not, i just havent figured out how to change it yet).

without knowing the gradients, i was going at 6mph on the steepest sections
and 9-10mph on less cruel sections.

the thing that killed me was the section of road from buxton towards whalley bridge on the a5004, i didnt realize that i would be going up and down constantly, stopped any rhythem at all.

The road along the resevoir is nice, quite, good surface and not to gruelling, a nice break from the steeper hills. i wasnt actually meant to go that way, i wanted to go up "the st" but took a wrong turn. next time though

moolarb

Ands wrote:

Hi there, I did my first Peak District ride over Easter. It was awesome - and yes, I was chuffed that I didn't stop at all on any of the climbs, or get off and walk. I went from Alderley out to Adlington, up the Brickworks, down to Kettleshulme, then right up Side End Ln to the top, left into the Goyt Valley yhen up to the Cat & Fiddle, down to Macc and back to Alderley via Birtles Ln. I didn't register my speed on all the climbs. The ride was 56km and I averaged 20.1 kph

What speeds did you do then? I remember up the Brickworks I tried to keep it above 10kph all the way. Obviously some bits were easier than others and I was going faster than 10kph. I went below 10 right near the top, down to about 8 I think. On the one up from Kettleshume I managed to stay out of my bottom gear. The worst one was the Adlington one - just a shock to the legs. I know my times were slow, but I was just happy to do what I could seeing as it was my first proper hilly ride.

What is the road like by Lamaload reservoir? The route I did took me just over 3hrs (total time including stops). I need to shorten that route for a midweek ride so was wondering what the road was like if I cut out the C&F and turned right at the top of Side End Ln and went back via Bollington.

That's a nice route, done that a few times. If you feel up to another challenge try a similar route but instead of turning up the Brickworks road carry on to Bollington and then turn left up Blaze Hill. You then have a series of brutal climbs (with a couple of descents) which takes you all the way up to Wingather Rocks/Pym Chair. If you look on the OS map there are 3 or 4 single chevron climbs (10-15%?) and one double chevron righ at the top (20%+).

Be careful with the short cut past Lamaload reservoir. If you're coming from the C&F/Wildboarclough side there is a very steep 'double' descent. I'm usually doing 40mph+ after the first descent then it flattens before and even steeper descent which will have you grabbing for the brakes within seconds as there is a twisty bit at the bottom (I think the locals call it the corkscrew). I've only done it with disc brakes, wouldn't trust rim brakes to kill the speed quick enough. From the Bollington side you've got a killer double climb which is short but it really kicks up at the bottom so you have to get in a low gear very quickly. Good luck!

Ands

Blaze Hill....I think Mr Ands does hill reps there. I've never been up it, no idea what's it's like but "brutal" might be a bit ambitious for me! Pym's Chair (that was the name I couldn't remember) - that's where I got to from Kettleshulme so I was thinking about going down to Blaze Hill from there instead of left down The St.

Thanks for the route advice. My descending skills need a lot of work - I got up to 58.5kph (freaked when I saw the speedo ) off the Brickworks, but that was a straightish road. Going down The St I was on the brakes the whole time and had really bad hand ache by the time I got to the bottom.

a_n_t

pyms chair is one of the toughest climbs in the area.

see how we struggle

freehub

I feel privileged to have had pyms chair in my weekly mid week 68 miler I used to do.

marcandre

where is pyms chair located? wouldnt mind having a ride along, and where abouts is the brickworks.

when i was looking on google maps, The St looked tough, mind you some of the ascents i did the other day were real tough.

cw42

Nice route. Did Long Hill, Derbyshire Bridge and C&F myself today.

Just to let you all know Long Hill is now closed for a month, but I'm sure you can get through on a bike, which makes climbing a very quiet affair

popette

that's a favourite route of mine too Ands. If i have time I take the left turn as you did and drop down to goyt valley and then up the cat via derbyshire bridge, otherwise, turning right takes you down and then up one more steepish climb (perhaps this is called dead man something?) and then down into either bollington or take a right before you get that far and go back home via adlington again.

I remember the first time i tried the brickworks - had to stop a couple of times and eat some soreen. Seems ridiculous now :-)

mhlewis

marcandre wrote:

where is pyms chair located? wouldnt mind having a ride along, and where abouts is the brickworks.

when i was looking on google maps, The St looked tough, mind you some of the ascents i did the other day were real tough.

Pyms chair is the car park at the top of the climb from Kettleshulme past Windgather rocks, where people park to walk up to Shinig Tor (GR 995767). The brickworks (I think) must be the mini Victorian industrial estate in Bakestonedale (GR 951797). Bakestonedale>Windgather rocks>Errwood>Derbyshire Bridge is my favourite way to get up on top to Axe Edge.
I have lived in Macc for 7 years, and Sunday's sportive was the first time I have ever cycled up the Buxton road to the top, although I have come down it a few times on Summer evenings. Quite a nice climb, amd not as many cars as I expected. Even so, I will stick to my usual route up and down (A54 to Cleulow Cross)

steveinthepeaks

Pym chair is definatley a tough one, took me a while to clear it in one. Don't normally go up that way as i come from Kettleshulme along past windgather rocks. I then go down to Erwood Res. and back up to Long hill to Whaley Bridge.

a_n_t

marcandre wrote:

where is pyms chair located? wouldnt mind having a ride along, and where abouts is the brickworks.

.

pyms chair
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&sourc ... 16901&z=14


brickworks
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&sourc ... 16901&z=14

snaffledog

yeah, up Pym's Chair on sunday, struggled (like a snail from start to finish, honestly), but made it in 34/24. good climb. thing is, the start is 300m ASL plus, so you've either got there by Blaze hill (tough in its own right) or Brickworks or whaley bridge (or macc from that direction).

legs pretty shot after pyms chair, but after that went to chapel-en-le-frith and did Chinley head/chunal head/snake pass, then u-turn back to stockport via hayfield.

doin the Brian Robinson Challenge on Sunday, should be ok, but carrying more weight, and less mileage than when i did it last year.

Bhima

Pym Chair is the highest point in Cheshire, I believe.

I was there today. Lovely.



As said above, there's no easy way to get there but the way which causes the least suffering is from the turn-off halfway up the cat and fiddle.

Although, the left-turn at Jenkin Chapel half-way up it, which seems to be a dead-end (somewhat) road will take you to some silly silly silly ridiculously steep sections. 30% hairpins and 40% cobbled sections. Actually dangerous if it's slightly damp. Photos do not do it justice.

marcandre

A_N_T - thanks for the maps, ill be heading over on my next day off.

Bhima - nice pictures. looks very tough on that cobbled strech, and as you said im sure the photos do not do it any justice.

Ands

a_n_t wrote:

pyms chair
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&sourc ... 16901&z=14

Oh, I didn't go from that direction - I went up to point B from Kettleshulme (past Windgather rocks). I'm guessing the route on your map is a whole lot harder.

Where is Derbyshire Bridge? Can't find it on a map.

andy_wrx

Pym's Chair is from the Lamaload/Jenkin Chapel direction.

Great Fun !
(or character-building, or similar euphamisms...)

I do it pretty regularly as serious training hill - get up that, after coming up Blaze Hill first, and you can get up most things.

I did it one morning last year and there were lots of walkers coming down so I had to keep putting-on a brave face and pretending I was enjoying it.
At the top was a chavved-up Saxo, doors wide open and stereo at full blast, three lads leaning against the bonnet, swigging Red Bull
They started to offer me sarcastic 'encouragement' so I had to put on a bit of effort and sprint over the top like it was no effort at all, rather than just crawl over it which is what I would have done with no audience.
Amused me that I was the one about to cough-up my lungs, yet it was them drinking the Red Bull...

Pott Shrigley, the Brickworks, fly down to Kettleshulme, Windgather, Goyt, Wildboarclough and then that one with the Stone Cross at the top, is a good workout with some beautiful scenery too.

ugo.santalucia

andy_wrx wrote:

Pym's Chair is from the Lamaload/Jenkin Chapel direction.

Great Fun !
(or character-building, or similar euphamisms...)

I do it pretty regularly as serious training hill - get up that, after coming up Blaze Hill first, and you can get up most things.

I did it one morning last year and there were lots of walkers coming down so I had to keep putting-on a brave face and pretending I was enjoying it.
At the top was a chavved-up Saxo, doors wide open and stereo at full blast, three lads leaning against the bonnet, swigging Red Bull
They started to offer me sarcastic 'encouragement' so I had to put on a bit of effort and sprint over the top like it was no effort at all, rather than just crawl over it which is what I would have done with no audience.
Amused me that I was the one about to cough-up my lungs, yet it was them drinking the Red Bull...

Pott Shrigley, the Brickworks, fly down to Kettleshulme, Windgather, Goyt, Wildboarclough and then that one with the Stone Cross at the top, is a good workout with some beautiful scenery too.

... or you can do the "brevet", as described on my website

http://ridewithugo.xtreemhost.com/goytvalley.html

a_n_t

Ands wrote:

Oh, I didn't go from that direction - I went up to point B from Kettleshulme (past Windgather rocks). I'm guessing the route on your map is a whole lot harder.

Try it out then come back on here and tell us if you think its harder

a_n_t

but I'll give you a clue, of the 3 roads that lead to point B..................... you picked the easiest