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Additional bike Security

patchesukpatchesuk Posts: 96
edited January 2011 in MTB general
Hi all,

I posted on here a while back about what security measures people take and insurance. Still lookin ginto insurance but will probably get an all round sports insurance that covers equipment.

Additional to that I am extremely paranoid about leaving my pride and joys in the garage. I live in a flat and the garage is a little way off.

Just thought I'd share what I've done as some people may have similar concerns.

Basically I have a iron Horse Sunday Team, Commencal Meta 55.2, and a Cowna DS in the garage. All a amazing bikes and I really don't want to lose them. Last time I posted something hit home that somebody wrote "if they want them, they will get them.. its about slowing htem down".

That hit home. If they are getting my bikes they are going to work damn hard to get them!

So Basically, I have built a 15mm MDF bike shed within the garage, all three bikes are then locked together. Front wheels off and chained together and to the bikes. The MDF shelter also had an additional lock on its door. The piece de resistance was a steal of a purchase from ones favourite shop "Poundland".... a personal alarm. which I have mounted at the back of the enclosure with a little hooped string. If some would be theives do get into the hut and start to pull on the bikes, this additional alarm should be a further deterent!

Hopefully I will never be in a position to have this all tested. But if they want them, they will need to be kitted out, time efficient and at least have a van and 3 of them to move the bikes!

Like I said at the start, just thought I'd share in case anyone is in a similar position of bike safety paranoia!
Think I need a bigger Garage.
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  • abarth_1200abarth_1200 Posts: 370
    OK now we know what you have just need to find your garage...

    No just pi**ing around.

    I have the same dilema, Apart form my garage is next to my house, I though about one of those ground anchors and heavy duty motorcycle chain and maybe some kind of webcam wired up that send me an email when motion is detected and record the theives.

    BTW your bike hut sounds awesome, I was gonna ask if you could post some pics but that might give your defense away, Its probably best not to post pictures
  • patchesukpatchesuk Posts: 96
    I can post some pics if you like.. isn't that dramatic. Just want to slow any potential wrong doers down!

    I would have a ground anchor as well.. but I am temporarily lodging with a friend and hence don;t really want to ask to install one.

    I think when I sort out a new place of my own, i'll instal a gound anchor but still put the hut over it.

    The way i see it.. insurance would cover the cost of the bikes but.. they have there own sentimental attachment. Plus i have never paid retail value of any of the bikes and would lose out if I had to claim.

    I mean after CRC deal ont he Iron horse... £1500 insurance cash would not get me a similar bike again!
    Think I need a bigger Garage.
  • Elliot RossElliot Ross Posts: 182
    some pics would be great, sounds interesting!
  • If they want your toys they will get them, I read once about an organised gang stealing to order. They took a Harley Davidson Fatboy from a garage by actually removing the bricks from the wall to get in!

    I have a classic Yamaha R1, Marin Mill Valley winter hack and a Cannondale Carbon Six. Cemented in ground anchor with the R1 leant towards the wall to make access to the chains more difficult (yes, at least two chains required) if you trail your chains along the floor any half decent lump hammer will shatter most lock/chain combinations, so making access to the chains difficult is key.

    My pushies are then chained to the R1 swingarm and to each other through the frame. Garage is also alarmed and I have a large noisy german shepherd dog!

    You can't stop someone tooled up, I've heard of thieves using liquid nitrogen and just shattering locks, but you can make it time consuming and noisy.

    I recommend spending at least 10% of your bikes value on security.
  • Mc SmileyMc Smiley Posts: 252
    Liquid nitrogen is rare though far easier to get whooping bolt croppers. House alarm is the best, door alarms end up smashed and broken within 5 seconds (experience) Lock bikes individually if you can, if they have to bolt crop 5 chains it will take much longer, especially if you make them hard to reach.

    Also stick as many dead bolts on the back of other doors used to gain access, say if your garage has doors that open like normal windows.

    Stick plates in the back of doors and use them on the back of doors to stop the clasps being pulled off.

    Always use locks that cover the clasps as well, such as the circular ones you get on the back of vans.

    Check your insurance and what it covers, and keep a copy safe to stop them hitting back at you
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 15,475
    if you trail your chains along the floor any half decent lump hammer will shatter most lock/chain combinations, so making access to the chains difficult is key.

    You can't stop someone tooled up, I've heard of thieves using liquid nitrogen and just shattering locks, but you can make it time consuming and noisy.

    If you buy bad chains, sure. Any good chain will be more or less impervious to a brute force attack like that, you can sometimes break them on an anvil with the right tools if you have long enough but it's not a practical method of attack. The reason so many bike/motorbike chains can be smashed like this is that they're overhardened and brittle- it's a cheap way to make a chain harder to crop but at the cost of making them weak to other attacks.

    Liquid nitrogen isn't very practical... But I've seen locks broken with an aerosol can of freeze spray, and a screwdriver and hammer. Good quality modern locks designed for this sort of job should be resistant to that though in various ways.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • furbyfurby Posts: 200
    Never chain bikes and equipment together!!!!!!

    They cut/break the chain and get the whole lot!!

    Seperate bikes, seperate chains and totally seperate anchor points.

    I am currently writing a dissertation on construction equipment theft and some of the lenghts the tea leaves will go to is amazing.
  • Agreed, censored chains are vunerable - any suggestions on non-censored chains? I always try and spend a good wedge of cash on such things and try to buy the products with the highest attack rating, sold secure etc but I have a suspicion that some of this is more than likely just marketing guff.

    Once my house refurb is complete each bike will have it's own anchor point and decent chain, but I figure chaining to a motorcycle which is in turn chained twice to a decent hard to get at ground anchor is better than nothing until this is done!

    I'd be interested in reading some examples from your dissertation furby, the more we know about the theiving scums tactics the more we can try and out smart the bastards!!
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 15,475
    Agreed, censored chains are vunerable - any suggestions on non-censored chains?

    I'm not current, tbh I stopped thinking about this too much once my motorbike got smashed up and scabby :wink: But last I knew the 2 to go for were Almax and Pragmasis. Squire do some good chains too but it's harder to know which are good. Their ex-Calibre is another big cropperproof number though.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • furbyfurby Posts: 200
    I'd be interested in reading some examples from your dissertation furby, the more we know about the theiving scums tactics the more we can try and out smart the bastards!!

    I have heard all sorts, the tea leaves stealing construction equipment are serious, professional and they invest time and effort in to planning their raids. I see no reason why bike theives are any different.

    It has been shown that attempts are much less likly if they do not think they can enter, remove the kit and get away under 10-15minutes.

    Along with class 4/5, gold standard chains and proper anchor points, kit like alarms, sirens, CCTV, security lighting etc will persuade the crims that they wont be able to get in abit out and in under 10min.

    Multiple layers of security is a very good idea.

    Datatagg type ID registration scheme are great, and dont just mark the frame, but forks, wheels, handle bars etc.

    Some of the research I have done has shown that it is benifical to shout about all the security measures you have by the way of alot of nice big visable signs saying the site is alarms, CCTV etc as this acts as a big deterant.

    The criminals have no shortage of equipment, knowledge or man power and will go to extorainary lenghts to get what they want. Putting them attempting to break in is the best thing if you can, if not Slowing them down, raising a seriously loud alarm and security lights that the crims are aware off and scares them off would seem to be the key to me.
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 15,475
    A good example was when the cropperproof chains started really coming into common use in London, the thieves started breaking into firestations and nicking the portable hydraulic cutters :roll: But still a crop-proof chain is hugely more useful than a croppable one even though the kit's out there to break them.

    The really infuriating thing is that sometimes, people do what they think is the right thing and wrap the bikes up with multiple cheap locks, even ground anchors etc, and then along comes a thief with a £40 set of records or something and not only cuts all the chains and cables, but does it faster than the owner can find all the keys and unlock them!
    Uncompromising extremist
  • I'm using an abus for more low level, English Chain with one of the new style 'half moon' type keys and my trusty 'rotalock' the barrel of the padlock rotates so it can't be gripped by cropping tools etc, apparently the UN used them to lock their freight containers!!

    We should find out what the military use :P
  • The trouble with a garage is once they're in they can't be seen, and they will happily spend hours in there if they really want it. And the security will suggest to them that they do!

    Alarms are definately a good idea, as is keeping them out of the garage in the first place - though try not to make it look like anything expensive is kept in there at the first place.

    That said, it all sounds like a lot of faff to me. Stick them in your bedroom.
  • furbyfurby Posts: 200
    The trouble with a garage is once they're in they can't be seen, and they will happily spend hours in there if they really want it. And the security will suggest to them that they do! Hence why you need a method of raising the alarm and getting the police there asap, AND a way of letting them know they have been discovered and that someone (the police) are on there way and preferably that they are being recorded. CCTV inside the garage anyone?

    Alarms are definitely a good idea, Only if the alarm will actually cause someone to investigate, and make the criminal think someone is coming, and fast. How many times do you hear an alarm going off and ignore it?

    as is keeping them out of the garage in the first place -

    though try not to make it look like anything expensive is kept in there at the first place. Sorry, but this doesnt work, if you know your expensive gear is there, they will know. Even going to the lenghts of survelance and following you home, to work out when and when kit is. The research I have been doing all points to making a mini fort knox, and then having signs saying it is fort knox and they will be recorded AND someone will there in minutes few if they try anything.

    That said, it all sounds like a lot of faff to me. Stick them in your bedroom.

    My bold
  • furby wrote:
    Hence why you need a method of raising the alarm and getting the police there asap, AND a way of letting them know they have been discovered and that someone (the police) are on there way and preferably that they are being recorded. CCTV inside the garage anyone?

    Totally agree.
    Only if the alarm will actually cause someone to investigate, and make the criminal think someone is coming, and fast. How many times do you hear an alarm going off and ignore it?

    Again I pretty much agree. The thing is, most petty criminals will panic and run at the sound of an alram. They'll be back if they're confident no-one's checking out what's going on, but it's a good deterent to make them think twice. It'll certainly disrup their leisurely pace and casual attitude.
    Sorry, but this doesnt work, if you know your expensive gear is there, they will know. Even going to the lenghts of survelance and following you home, to work out when and when kit is. The research I have been doing all points to making a mini fort knox, and then having signs saying it is fort knox and they will be recorded AND someone will there in minutes few if they try anything.

    Everyone has a picture in their head. Of the scene. Mine is of my mother's garage - a decrepit old thing, broken into several times, sitting out of the back of the house on the edge of a rural,working class, village, alongside a load of other decrepit old things. In hindsight of my previous post, possibly not the best, or most common example.

    It does highlight that you need to evaluate your own circumstances though. I mean, those garages outside my mother's; most of them are empty. People rarely put anything expensive in them and security is very poor. And being a small village, the locals know this. Half of them you could pull the locks off with your hands. I've seen it done by accident! Others you can pull the doors off.. Some have holes you can climb through. Something small like putting an expensive lock on makes people very curious, very quickly. You don't waste money on expensive security in this setting unless you require it. I'll also add that there's really only one vantage point to this garage, and if anyone sees you, chances are, you'll see them - not a great help, I know, but it lets you know when to up security, and since there's not many people pass by, it's not often.

    In the above, if you have some modest looking, but effective security, the opportunist will move onto the next garage. If you have very visible security, they will be back home stocking up on the tools eager to know what's inside. Chances are they've already scoped it out and had a word around town to find out.

    However, if you live in an area where high security is commonplace, or its expected that most properties will have items of value inside, it's a very different story, and in that respect, yes, I totally agree with you :)

    And I can't believe I can talkat such length on garage security. I don't even own a garage :oops:
  • SlamdunkinSlamdunkin Posts: 355
    If you have power to your garage then one of these alarms that phones you is a good idea.

    This is a cheap one...some of the more expensive ones let you listen in after you have been phoned.

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HOME-ALARM-AND-PA ... 4144934547

    This model lets you listen in and you can even talk to the thief though the speaker to tell him you have rang the police and it works on batteries, but no idea how long they last as it's only a back up for mains power failure.

    cheap though at £50.

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wireless-House-Al ... 35a89e7c97
  • SlamdunkinSlamdunkin Posts: 355
    edited April 2010
    One of these for £6 and it could save you the price of you out side locks being broken on you shed or garage....thieves hate alarms, so this is a cheap bluff to add to your other security.

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BLUE-Battery-Flas ... 5ad719f1df

    also these alarm padlocks add another resonably priced layer of protection

    £13

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SIREN-PADLOCK-ALA ... a1fe19b72e

    and this bad boy for £33
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ALARM-PADLOCK-HOM ... 3caba6366e
  • SlamdunkinSlamdunkin Posts: 355
    Don't know how good these are, but if you have to leave your bike outside at work, then this nifty little device tells you when someone tampers with it.

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/C9E-NEW-DIGITAL-A ... 563a5d25e5
  • furbyfurby Posts: 200
    Slamdunkin, I wouldnt bother with fake alarms etc, they just get tested and when they dont go off, they know that is fake and they have plenty of time.
  • XxxBFGxxXXxxBFGxxX Posts: 1,355
    there is a lad on ebay well a mate of mine that makes and sells gsm alarms basicly it texts and rings you if its triggered. wrth a look at guys. mail me if ya want any more info i can pass you his info if ya want a look
  • XxxBFGxxXXxxBFGxxX Posts: 1,355
    If they want your toys they will get them, I read once about an organised gang stealing to order. They took a Harley Davidson Fatboy from a garage by actually removing the bricks from the wall to get in!

    .

    my uncle had one of these i belive there si only 2 in the uk unless they have sold more now.
  • SlamdunkinSlamdunkin Posts: 355
    furby wrote:
    Slamdunkin, I wouldnt bother with fake alarms etc, they just get tested and when they dont go off, they know that is fake and they have plenty of time.


    How does a thief test an internal motion sencor alarm without getting in?

    I didn't say it was a substitute for other security...just another way of trying to put off an attack.
  • furbyfurby Posts: 200
    Slamdunkin wrote:
    furby wrote:
    How does a thief test an internal motion sencor alarm without getting in?

    Precisailly that, break in, the alarm doesnt go off, ideal now what do i like as iv got all the time in the world knowing nobody is coming.....
  • SlamdunkinSlamdunkin Posts: 355
    OH I see ,so now we have gone from testing whether the alarm light is real to actually bolt cropping off the locks to see if the alarm goes off.

    Some of the alarms on the market don't have the feature of an external light to show that there is an alarm on the inside, so the dummy light can also be use in conjunction with a real alarm.

    Security works on many levels, Some thieves will go for the shed next door that hasn't got a flashing light, some will break in anyway, even if there is a real alarm screaming in their ears as they no that a lot of the time no one will come.

    Do you ring the police every time a car alarm goes of in a built up area?

    This thread is about extra security, so any extra deterrents are worth trying.
  • furbyfurby Posts: 200
    The studys have shown that if the would be theives beleive they can not get in and out without being detected/caught in under 10minutes then they are much much more likly to leave things alone.

    These studys are for construction equipment, agricularal equipment, caravans, trailers etc and I see no reason why a mountain bike would be much different.

    No security can fully stop a determened theif so I would say you need to do two things, one, delay the removal of your pride and joy for over that key 10 minutes, two have something which raises the alarm, lets you, the burgular and as many others as possible that the alarm has been raised AND that someone, pref the police, are actually coming in that 10min.

    Also, if I knew some tea leave was in my garage, I would be ringing the police and claiming they have a knife, gun etc to make them hurry the censored up!
  • SlamdunkinSlamdunkin Posts: 355
    These studys are for construction equipment, agricularal equipment, caravans, trailers etc and I see no reason why a mountain bike would be much different.

    I can think of one....the difference in value.

    A 150K JCB will be nicked by a proffessional gang who know where they can sell it for top dollar. A mountain bike will be nicked by an opportunist, because even if it is worth 2K new it's not going to fetch the thief anyway near that, if it ends up on ebay it will be a fence reselling it for a lot more than he gave the thief.
  • Slamdunkin wrote:
    These studys are for construction equipment, agricularal equipment, caravans, trailers etc and I see no reason why a mountain bike would be much different.

    I can think of one....the difference in value.

    A 150K JCB will be nicked by a proffessional gang who know where they can sell it for top dollar. A mountain bike will be nicked by an opportunist, because even if it is worth 2K new it's not going to fetch the thief anyway near that, if it ends up on ebay it will be a fence reselling it for a lot more than he gave the thief.

    I'm pretty sure in many other parts of the world there's professional bike thieves out there, or clued up opportunists, but I know where I live, 9 times out of 10 it will be sold for no more than £50 regardless of the value.
  • furbyfurby Posts: 200
    I disagree that those who break in to garages and over storage areas, where it is clear they have planned the raid, with bringing in extually the right sort of heavy equipment are not professional and are simply opportunists.

    Unless anyone has access to research that proves my opinion wrong?

    (ps I will post up the links to the relavent documents I have been working on when I have a chance, if this topic is still going)
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 15,475
    furby wrote:
    I disagree that those who break in to garages and over storage areas, where it is clear they have planned the raid, with bringing in extually the right sort of heavy equipment are not professional and are simply opportunists.

    Stats on bike crime always show a strong opportunist/skilled amateur lean, because most bikes stolen are low value, poorly secured bikes, trouble is it's not all the same people nicking bikes.

    The Met reckon it's the motorbike thieves going after high value mountain bikes, same tools, MO etc and there's crossover in recoveries. Makes sense, a top end mountain bike is worth more than most motorbikes and they're less traceable too.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • chriscovechriscove Posts: 13
    I was searching for a topic on bike insurance recommendations, and stumbled across this - very interesting!
    I rent a room and keep them in there, although am now considering extra precautions...

    Does anyone however have any experience of a descent bike insurer? I just looked at Ensleigh and they seem to only cover up to 1500 total...Each of my bikes are worth that on their own!

    Chris
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