Geometry help!

DonDaddyD
DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
edited April 2010 in Commuting chat
One of my pet hates is having to adjust from the commuter's geometry to my weekend bike's geometry. I hate that period of self adjustment as you climatise to a different ride.

In this I'm with Greg66. Two bike same frame different material.

So I've gone over the numbers time and again but just to be sure can someone confirm whether the Kuota Kharma in medium has the same geometry as the Kuota Korsa Lite in medium.

Thanks in advance.

Also do you hate that period of change when swapping from one bike to another.
Food Chain number = 4

A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
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Comments

  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    You have different geometry for the weekend?

    I set my bikes up as comfortably as I can and then ride them, only making adjustments occasionally.

    What changes do you make for commuting and weekend riding, and why?

    Edit: actually I change pedals at the weekend since I find SPDs better than Looks for commuting.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    Eh? I don't find there's any period of adjustment at all. Only if you've not ridden a bike for a while, then it can feel a little odd for all of 30 seconds.
  • kelsen
    kelsen Posts: 2,003
    Have you tried looking at the Kuota website or emailing them rather than depend on the considerable but sometimes flaky knowledge on this forum?

    Can't say I've had much problems adjusting between (3) different bikes. Sounds like you just want an excuse to get a new bike!
  • holybinch
    holybinch Posts: 417
    Just checking your links, they share most of the same geometry.
    The only difference seem to be the total length of the seat tube.
    Do you have the same stem length? Seat at the same height and position?
    FCN 4(?) (Commuter - Genesis Croix de Fer)
    FCN 3 (Roadie - Viner Perfecta)

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  • kelsen
    kelsen Posts: 2,003
    kelsen wrote:
    Have you tried looking at the Kuota website or emailing them rather than depend on the considerable but sometimes flaky knowledge on this forum?

    Can't say I've had much problems adjusting between (3) different bikes. Sounds like you just want an excuse to get a new bike!

    Ok, didn't realise your links were already to the website. So it was just that you couldn't be arsed looking and wanted someone else to do it for you! :D
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    To clarify

    My Giant (commuter) is a large frame the Kharma is a medium. The size is different and if/when I get a new bike I may consider getting one as near to the same geometry as my Kharma.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    kelsen wrote:
    kelsen wrote:
    Have you tried looking at the Kuota website or emailing them rather than depend on the considerable but sometimes flaky knowledge on this forum?

    Can't say I've had much problems adjusting between (3) different bikes. Sounds like you just want an excuse to get a new bike!

    Ok, didn't realise your links were already to the website. So it was just that you couldn't be arsed looking and wanted someone else to do it for you! :D

    Read this paragraph to yourself again:
    DDD originally wrote wrote:
    So I've gone over the numbers time and again but just to be sure can someone confirm whether the Kuota Kharma in medium has the same geometry as the Kuota Korsa Lite in medium.

    Have you tried looking at the Kuota website or emailing them rather than depend on the considerable but sometimes flaky knowledge on this forum?

    The flaky advice on this site hasn't steered me wrong so far.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • kelsen
    kelsen Posts: 2,003
    edited April 2010
    My comments were meant to be lighthearted, but I guess you took it the wrong way.

    I apologise if you thought I was insulting you or anyone else on this forum
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    kelsen wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    kelsen wrote:
    kelsen wrote:
    Have you tried looking at the Kuota website or emailing them rather than depend on the considerable but sometimes flaky knowledge on this forum?
    [


    My comments were meant to be lighthearted, but I guess you took it the wrong way.

    As before.

    I apologise if you thought I was insulting you or anyone else on this forum

    No no, I editted so they my own retort wouldn't come across as harsh. I just think that while there is a lot of banter on here it is important to help when help is asked for and not to shoot the person down.

    I really would consider getting two bike with the same geometry.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • Eau Rouge
    Eau Rouge Posts: 1,118
    From what the website says, the geometry is all the same with the only difference being a slightly longer seat tube, which just means a slightly less exposed seat post. As long as you get the same stem length and handelbar width it should feel the same.

    They have different ways of connecting the front mech, so you wouldn't be able to swap them over. Their weights are interesting though. The Kharma's frame is 70g heaver, but it's fork is 52g lighter.
  • kelsen
    kelsen Posts: 2,003
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    No no, I editted so they my own retort wouldn't come across as harsh. I just think that while there is a lot of banter on here it is important to help when help is asked for and not to shoot the person down.

    I really would consider getting two bike with the same geometry.

    Again, my apologies if you thought I was just insulting you. My comments were well intended and I was being serious about emailing the company. Have done so many time in the past with questions to various companies and they've usually been helpful.
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    You should be able to get most dimensions the same by adjusting seat height / fore-aft, stem length, bar width etc. Most likely issue is probably that your Giant may have a longer head tube which may mean you can't get as low as the Kharma. That's probably quite sensible for commuting though! My two road bikes have completely different geometry, but they fit me the same. Mountain bike is pretty similar as well, only a little bit more upright (and different bars obviously).
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  • Kieran_Burns
    Kieran_Burns Posts: 9,757
    kelsen wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    No no, I editted so they my own retort wouldn't come across as harsh. I just think that while there is a lot of banter on here it is important to help when help is asked for and not to shoot the person down.

    I really would consider getting two bike with the same geometry.

    Again, my apologies if you thought I was just insulting you. My comments were well intended and I was being serious about emailing the company. Have done so many time in the past with questions to various companies and they've usually been helpful.

    can you two just get a room, get sweaty and come back best of friends? :wink:

    It's embarrassing 'round here sometimes... :roll:

    :wink:



    When I change over from the Tricross to the Madone I almost throw myself off the bike on the first bend as it is WAY more twitchy to ride. Doesn't take long to adjust to the change in feel though
    Chunky Cyclists need your love too! :-)
    2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
    2011 Trek Madone 4.5
    2012 Felt F65X
    Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,416
    Just a thought, but how different are your Giant and Kharma at the moment? Are we talking several centimetres? IIRC the SCR is partly aimed at the sportive market, and has a more upright riding position than I would expect the Kharma to have. Given that most bikes have a fair degree of adjustment for a given frame size, if the difference between the two bikes is not that great, have you tried adjusting the SCR to be more like the Kharma (I realise this may not be possible, but worth looking at)? You could get a bike shop to fettle it or go homemade with a tape measure and a plumbline. Probably best to draw it out on paper first.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • kelsen
    kelsen Posts: 2,003
    Kieran_Burns wrote:
    kelsen wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    No no, I editted so they my own retort wouldn't come across as harsh. I just think that while there is a lot of banter on here it is important to help when help is asked for and not to shoot the person down.

    I really would consider getting two bike with the same geometry.

    Again, my apologies if you thought I was just insulting you. My comments were well intended and I was being serious about emailing the company. Have done so many time in the past with questions to various companies and they've usually been helpful.

    can you two just get a room, get sweaty and come back best of friends? :wink:

    It's embarrassing 'round here sometimes... :roll:

    :wink:



    When I change over from the Tricross to the Madone I almost throw myself off the bike on the first bend as it is WAY more twitchy to ride. Doesn't take long to adjust to the change in feel though

    My only point was that the chances of somebody on this forum having had first hand experience of riding both these bikes are fairly slim, so the advice DDD will get back is probably no more than what he already know in this instance, therefore why not ask the manufacturer.

    Now if he had a sensible question like who would win in a fight between a zombie and a mummy, the obvious choice would always be to defer to the greater knowledge of this forum!
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    kelsen wrote:
    Now if he had a sensible question like who would win in a fight between a zombie and a mummy, the obvious choice would always be to defer to the greater knowledge of this forum!

    It depends on what Mummy we are talking about, does the Mummy have powers, a'la Mumm-ra or the white guy in The Mummy (film) who played Imhotep, arguably the greatest smartest African and man of science (both medical and engineer) of all time.

    If so or if the Mummy retains any knowledge of its former life then the Zombie doesn't stand a chance.

    If the Mummy doesn't end the fight in the first encounter the Zombie will likely overwhelm the Mummy come the second encouter with other Zombie's it's probably made in the between between fights.

    Also Mummys cannot be made into Zombies. Fact.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • Clever Pun
    Clever Pun Posts: 6,778
    have you actually had a bike fit yet?

    The only difference I feel is when I ride the brompton opposed to my road/fixed gear bikes..
    Purveyor of sonic doom

    Very Hairy Roadie - FCN 4
    Fixed Pista- FCN 5
    Beared Bromptonite - FCN 14
  • Kieran_Burns
    Kieran_Burns Posts: 9,757
    Are we talking Voodoo Zombies or Night of the Living Dead Zombies?

    'cos if it's the former - all you need is salt and a sewing kit and it's game over for the zombie. If it's the latter then no contest as the Mummy would be like a Human meat jerky to the Zombie and he wouldn't be interested.
    Chunky Cyclists need your love too! :-)
    2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
    2011 Trek Madone 4.5
    2012 Felt F65X
    Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter
  • kelsen
    kelsen Posts: 2,003
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    kelsen wrote:
    Now if he had a sensible question like who would win in a fight between a zombie and a mummy, the obvious choice would always be to defer to the greater knowledge of this forum!

    It depends on what Mummy we are talking about, does the Mummy have powers, a'la Mumm-ra or the white guy in The Mummy (film) who played Imhotep, arguably the greatest smartest African and man of science (both medical and engineer) of all time.

    If so or if the Mummy retains any knowledge of its former life then the Zombie doesn't stand a chance.

    If the Mummy doesn't end the fight in the first encounter the Zombie will likely overwhelm the Mummy come the second encouter with other Zombie's it's probably made in the between between fights.

    Also Mummys cannot be made into Zombies. Fact.

    Yeah, the geometry between the Kuotas are probably quite possibly the same

    :wink:
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    One of my pet hates is having to adjust from the commuter's geometry to my weekend bike's geometry. I hate that period of self adjustment as you climatise to a different ride.

    In this I'm with Greg66. Two bike same frame different material.

    You're aware that both Greg's bikes are carbon, right?
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    u actually had a bike fit yet?

    The only difference I feel is when I ride the brompton opposed to my road/fixed gear bikes..

    Kharma yes, Giant no. If the bike frame is identical then setting it up exactlty the same should be no problem, right? So if I got a new bike I was thinking of aiming for the same sized/dimension frame.

    The Giant is longer taller than the Kharma, I could get the contact points identical with money and effort but I was thinking more if/when I replace the Giant.
    Are we talking Voodoo Zombies or Night of the Living Dead Zombies?

    'cos if it's the former - all you need is salt and a sewing kit and it's game over for the zombie. If it's the latter then no contest as the Mummy would be like a Human meat jerky to the Zombie and he wouldn't be interested.

    Thing about Zombies is that yoy can take'em out with conventional weapons or a heavy blow to the skull. Only way to properly take out a Mummy is to go to Egypt, traverse their tomb which is often laden with boobytraps and then perform some Egyptian religous ceremony, often involving a blood sacrifice of your nearest and dearest. Not cool.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    One of my pet hates is having to adjust from the commuter's geometry to my weekend bike's geometry. I hate that period of self adjustment as you climatise to a different ride.

    In this I'm with Greg66. Two bike same frame different material.

    You're aware that both Greg's bikes are carbon, right?

    The old Bike 2 (I think) wasn't that was a lovely gun metal grey Cervelo S1 alu frame. Had the same geometry as his Bike 1, which is a Cervelo superduper RS something.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,365
    edited April 2010
    .................
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  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,416
    The Giant is longer taller than the Kharma, I could get the contact points identical with money and effort but I was thinking more if/when I replace the Giant.

    Well, a ball of string and a tape measure will set you back a few quid, it's true, but you seem to be putting in a fair bit of effort asking us lot anyway. Just measure the two or three critical distances and angles on the Kharma - assuming that it has the 'better' fit, then adjust the Giant accordingly. Of course you can't change the frame angles without belting it with a hammer, so you may not be able to achieve an exact match.

    BTW, surely a mummy is just an ancient Egyptian (or Inca) zombie with more bandages [puts fingers in ears]
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    rjsterry wrote:
    belting it with a hammer, so you may not be able to achieve an exact match.

    BTW, surely a mummy is just an ancient Egyptian (or Inca) zombie with more bandages [puts fingers in ears]

    See I thought about that and you're right they are. But you have to look at mummification, its steeped in religion and mysticism, which is why it often takes an equal amount of effort to destroy them.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,416
    Ooh, I don't know. I would say Voodoo counts as a religion (the real thing, not the Hollywood version), bt then that's not got a lot to do with zombies.

    One other thing to consider (back to the bikes) is crank length.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Kieran_Burns
    Kieran_Burns Posts: 9,757
    rjsterry wrote:
    Ooh, I don't know. I would say Voodoo counts as a religion (the real thing, not the Hollywood version), bt then that's not got a lot to do with zombies.

    One other thing to consider (back to the bikes) is crank length.

    Except that zombies originated with Voodoo.... :P
    Chunky Cyclists need your love too! :-)
    2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
    2011 Trek Madone 4.5
    2012 Felt F65X
    Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter
  • Jay dubbleU
    Jay dubbleU Posts: 3,159
    I sometimes worry about leaving the Voodoo alone with other bikes - I suspect it may be eating them :wink:
  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    surely commute and sunday best will be different best fits? yes both have drops but your doing quite different rides or at least should be.

    I don't have a problem going from big hybrid hack to old roadie to modern mountain bike.
  • OldSkoolKona
    OldSkoolKona Posts: 655
    When I first saw this thread, I thought DDD was looking for some help with his maths, perhaps trying to get his head around non-Euclidean space? A way to get his commute even quicker perhaps..

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