Alfine based commuters

dubnut71

Ok - I have started to commute again on my trek FX 7.2 hybrid, its a nice 34 mile round trip, Bracknell to Heathrow so not too hilly

The trek is being gifted to my brother in law as part of a complex family barter so I am in the market for a new bike. I am doing it under cycle to work ( I am my own employer however!) and really fancy a lower level of maintenance that the hub geared bikes provide. I also really like the trek's "road type" setup and have narrowed its replacement down to 2 likely candidates.
1. The Cotic road rat alfine
2. The Kon Dr Fine

Does anyone have any experiences of these 2? any other alfine suggestions??!!
Luckily its mainly a pavement / cycleroute type affair to work but there are quite a few kerbs and bumps and also the tyres will b switched to marathon's pretty much straight away as punctures are the bane of my life!!!

Thanks in advance

jeepie

I commute on an Genesis IO ID Alfine hubbed steel mountain bike. I can't comment on either The Cotic road rat alfine or Kon Dr Fine frames though.

Summary of the Alfine bit is:

1) Lovely buttery smooth changes
2) No maintenance at all (until the 2000 mile service - I haven't got there yet but you have to factor this in to the cost as I think it's about 40 mins of mechanic time)
3) Now I've got used to it, I think it's easier to take off the rear wheel than on a dérailleur bike. I've got two of those. BUT this takes a little getting used to and practise.
4) You have to carry an O 15mm track spanner to get the rear wheel off
5) The hub is heavy but my bike is heavy as I wanted something tough, and often tough = heavy.

Would I recommend it? Without question. Would I commute 34 miles on it.... not sure. Certainly my current setup would not be suitable. The key is if the bike is light enough for you the I'd recommend the alfine, but over longer distances you might like something lighter and faster. I would look at a road bike for that sort of distance.

bluefoam

How about this? http://www.chargebikes.com/products/bik ... .php?id=27 . It has the nexus 8 hub instead of the alfine though... The new lighter alfine 11 will be interesting. I'm expecting to see lots of bikes like the charge once its launched...

UndercoverElephant

bluefoam wrote:

How about this? http://www.chargebikes.com/products/bik ... .php?id=27 . It has the nexus 8 hub instead of the alfine though... The new lighter alfine 11 will be interesting. I'm expecting to see lots of bikes like the charge once its launched...

A guy I know owns one of them, they're really quite heavy. If you're travelling those distances, surely lightweight would be high on your list.

dubnut71

Jeepie wrote:

I commute on an Genesis IO ID Alfine hubbed steel mountain bike. I can't comment on either The Cotic road rat alfine or Kon Dr Fine frames though.

Summary of the Alfine bit is:

1) Lovely buttery smooth changes
2) No maintenance at all (until the 2000 mile service - I haven't got there yet but you have to factor this in to the cost as I think it's about 40 mins of mechanic time)
3) Now I've got used to it, I think it's easier to take off the rear wheel than on a dérailleur bike. I've got two of those. BUT this takes a little getting used to and practise.
4) You have to carry an O 15mm track spanner to get the rear wheel off
5) The hub is heavy but my bike is heavy as I wanted something tough, and often tough = heavy.

Would I recommend it? Without question. Would I commute 34 miles on it.... not sure. Certainly my current setup would not be suitable. The key is if the bike is light enough for you the I'd recommend the alfine, but over longer distances you might like something lighter and faster. I would look at a road bike for that sort of distance.

Thanks for all that info mate, the alfine still appeals to me but I guess I will have to weigh up the pros and con's of the distance (its 17 miles each way - 34 in total.
What is it that makes an alfine (or indeed a nexus) hub bike less suitable for the distance mate? I am discounting using my roadbike just because the road is pretty bad and there is going to be a lot of bumping up and down kerbs!!

Any advice gratefully received!!

jeepie

Hi dubnut71....

What is it that makes an alfine (or indeed a nexus) hub bike less suitable for the distance mate?

There are two downsides to the alfine hub in my humble opinion i) is weight and ii) is gear ratio.

As far as the weight is concerned imagine cycling 4 miles with a brick in attached to your rear drop out (rear tyre axle). That would be OK for 4 miles. But after 10 miles or so you'd be thinking I wish I could ditch this heavy brick it's slowing me down and tiring me out, I need to get to work, I want to go faster. You'll think that more and more each day. So weight is actually quite important. If you pick up the bike and it feels heavy in the shop imagine how you'll feel >100 miles into the week! I think possibly an alfine based bike will be too heavy for you over that distance, but if you are strong as an ox and low maintenance really is important then go for it.

The number of gears an Alfine provides is also much lower than a dérailleur bike, so the top gear is too low for me anyway when I want to put the hammer down. So what I'm saying is I could not reach 15mph which is what I'd be looking for over that sort of distance.

I am discounting using my roadbike just because the road is pretty bad and there is going to be a lot of bumping up and down kerbs!!

Someone will be posting a picture of the Paris-Roubaix shortly!

If I were you, I'd go for a Sora or Tiagra based road bike and keep a bit of money in reserve for servicing. Something like this --> http://www.evanscycles.com/products/spe ... e-ec019409

I've got a road bike and would use that for any distance > 10 miles.

Feel free to ping me with any qs...

Cheers J

vorsprung

Jeepie wrote:

Hi dubnut71....

What is it that makes an alfine (or indeed a nexus) hub bike less suitable for the distance mate?

There are two downsides to the alfine hub in my humble opinion i) is weight and ii) is gear ratio.

As far as the weight is concerned imagine cycling 4 miles with a brick in attached to your rear drop out (rear tyre axle). ... too heavy for you over that distance, but if you are strong as an ox and low maintenance really is important then go for it.

The weight is no big deal compared with clothes/shopping and the other stuff on the bike.
It isn't rotational weight either as it is in the centre of the wheel.
Not to mention the weight of the muppet on top of it
Not to mention that the wheel isn't dished so it can have a lower spoke count
Not to mention that the chainset only has one ring

The number of gears an Alfine provides is also much lower than a dérailleur bike, so the top gear is too low for me anyway when I want to put the hammer down. So what I'm saying is I could not reach 15mph which is what I'd be looking for over that sort of distance.

My top gear is 96" which gives 34 mph at 120rpm. Unless you are a cat 1 racer that is more than enough.

I am running 45 ring x20 sprocket, so that is a pretty low ratio for the road

Maybe your IO goes slow for some other reason? Maybe you have convinced yourself it is slow?

Here is a review of my own Alfine Roadrat

UndercoverElephant

Jeepie wrote:

Someone will be posting a picture of the Paris-Roubaix shortly!

Sorry it took so long.

UndercoverElephant

Just to add, it's not a Alfine, but a Rolhoff, but you might find this review interesting:

http://www.bikeradar.com/commuting/foru ... t=12678933

From our very own Geordiefella.

jeepie

Fair points vorsprung. My bike is slow, but I did qualify that at the start. It's a tough heavy steel mountain bike. I personally would look at weight if I was commuting 34 miles, but this would not be an issue on short commutes which is why I love my bike. Absolutely no way it's going anywhere near 34 mph.

dubnut71

Good stuff guys and very helpful, I note with interest Vorsprung your thoughts on your own road rat.

I also have a planet x road bike for the fast stuff but don't consider commuting on it because the tracks that I will be using are simple too rough for the racing 5's I have on there? Good for my fast training rides but no real good for constant commuting.

It has made me maybe now consider a cyclo cross bike as a compromise. I feel more aware commuting when I am off the drops but thats the benefit of the crosser, maybe its the best of both worlds without the weight issues a nexus or alfine has, I will have to live with the maintenance regime tho!!!!

mudcovered

dubnut71 wrote:

It has made me maybe now consider a cyclo cross bike as a compromise. I feel more aware commuting when I am off the drops but thats the benefit of the crosser, maybe its the best of both worlds without the weight issues a nexus or alfine has, I will have to live with the maintenance regime tho!!!!

Maintenance isn't too bad. Don't stress keeping the bike frame clean but do keep the chain and other moving parts clean. In bad weather conditions I spend about 5mins when I get home wiping the chain dry and oiling it. Seems to keep things running smoothly even if you can't see the frame paint colour for mud.

Clean the mud off the frame as and when the gear shift gets a bit harsh. 2-3months in my experience.

Mike

shouldbeinbed

Jeepie wrote:

<snip>

The number of gears an Alfine provides is also much lower than a dérailleur bike, so the top gear is too low for me anyway when I want to put the hammer down. So what I'm saying is I could not reach 15mph which is what I'd be looking for over that sort of distance.
<snip>

OP - Did you post the same Q on cyclechat? if so apologies for me repeating myself.

I agree that the rear wheel weight of the bike is heavier and that the gear range isn't as extreme as a 20+ deraillure set up but theres no duplication and in reality a 27 speed deraillure isn't really 27 different gears, also how much of that range do most people ever regularly use? I had about 4 regular front/rear combos on my last 24 speed set up. and the rest were just empty cogs.

If you can't manage 15mph average on an Alfine jeepie then I'd take it in and ask whats wrong with it (or consider a powabike )
Mine is on a load lugging chunky hybrid, I'm no superfit, superthin speed freak, my commute is hilly and I'm making a 15mph round trip average without really pushing and tiring myself out on the way in (erratic showers at work).

I can comfortably maintain +/-20mph on the level and can put power through the pedals up to just past 30 on my big downhill - admittedly much past 30 and I've run out of gears and am coasting tho.

I can also happily (ok sweating and grunting) get up the same hill whilst sat in the saddle in 1&2 and find the Alfine range plenty adequate for Granny ring to a decent turn of speed.

I would say though that the mid range 4/5 particularly are a bit spaced and I often find myself deciding which side of just right I want to be on - not too far away but another gear in there and another one at the top of the range for really flying would be helpful.

I think the 11 speed Alfine will be a gear too many if they get the spacing right but I expect it to plug the gaps in the 8 speed range and make that Alfine brand better and a more viable contender for the lighter faster bikes.

I also haven't done a stick of maintenence to it, other than oiling the chain, its kept in perfect sync, it can clunk if you're changing up whilst really pressing the pedals, but slack off for half a pedal rev and every change is silent and instant, and I'm 95%+ happy with it and would definitely go for another hub bike. I don't miss fannying about with deraillures at all.

bill_gates

shouldbeinbed wrote:

Jeepie wrote:

<snip>

The number of gears an Alfine provides is also much lower than a dérailleur bike, so the top gear is too low for me anyway when I want to put the hammer down. So what I'm saying is I could not reach 15mph which is what I'd be looking for over that sort of distance.
<snip>

OP - Did you post the same Q on cyclechat? if so apologies for me repeating myself.

I agree that the rear wheel weight of the bike is heavier and that the gear range isn't as extreme as a 20+ deraillure set up but theres no duplication and in reality a 27 speed deraillure isn't really 27 different gears, also how much of that range do most people ever regularly use? I had about 4 regular front/rear combos on my last 24 speed set up. and the rest were just empty cogs.

If you can't manage 15mph average on an Alfine jeepie then I'd take it in and ask whats wrong with it (or consider a powabike )
Mine is on a load lugging chunky hybrid, I'm no superfit, superthin speed freak, my commute is hilly and I'm making a 15mph round trip average without really pushing and tiring myself out on the way in (erratic showers at work).

I can comfortably maintain +/-20mph on the level and can put power through the pedals up to just past 30 on my big downhill - admittedly much past 30 and I've run out of gears and am coasting tho.

I can also happily (ok sweating and grunting) get up the same hill whilst sat in the saddle in 1&2 and find the Alfine range plenty adequate for Granny ring to a decent turn of speed.

I would say though that the mid range 4/5 particularly are a bit spaced and I often find myself deciding which side of just right I want to be on - not too far away but another gear in there and another one at the top of the range for really flying would be helpful.

I think the 11 speed Alfine will be a gear too many if they get the spacing right but I expect it to plug the gaps in the 8 speed range and make that Alfine brand better and a more viable contender for the lighter faster bikes.

I also haven't done a stick of maintenence to it, other than oiling the chain, its kept in perfect sync, it can clunk if you're changing up whilst really pressing the pedals, but slack off for half a pedal rev and every change is silent and instant, and I'm 95%+ happy with it and would definitely go for another hub bike. I don't miss fannying about with deraillures at all.

+1 on all of these points (maybe apart from the sweating and the grunting up hills) :-)

Not sure if the OP means that they struggle to get 15mph average or 15mph top speed. If I push hard on the flat with no tail wind, can easily get close to 25mph and had 35mph top speed on the downhill.

O'Day

I've been using a Charge Mixer for inner city transportation over the last 9months.

I agree with those who've said that the performance they get from their hub gear is more than adequate for the job.

However, that's in the context of rarely travelling more than 3 or 4miles one way. As it is, over these shorter distances, I spend a fare amount of time out of the saddle either climbing or accelerating. The larger gaps between gears on the Alfine actually work in favour of this style of riding as I get a farely rapid power shift when changing up, something the Alfine does particularly well when bearing weight (ie when I'm standing on the peddles). The ability to change gear while stationary also suits the stop-start of city commuting (as do the disc brakes).

However, I agree with UndercoverElephant, the Charge frames are heavy. If I was looking at Alfine equipped bikes again I would prioritise a lighter frame weight.

If you're travelling 34miles round on an Alfine hub I'd also go the way Vorsprung has and add drop bars. Reduced resistance from the more aero position and perhaps better leverage on the pedals would be a plus.

Vorsprung and Geordiefella both provide good perspectives on the pro's and con's. I think, taking their views into account, the very best favour you could do yourself is to try a hub geared bike on your commute over the course of a week or two & see how it suits.

I'll be upping my commute to 20miles per day starting in about two months and, after having considered adding drops to my Charge and turning it into a kind of audax, I've opted to use my road bike instead. As much as I enjoy riding the Charge in the city, the extra weight of frame and hub over a longer distance just doesn't suit my preferred style of riding in that context.

As others have advised, don't discount the CX option.

snailracer

Weight won't make much difference on a loaded-up bike on a flat commute.

However Shimano geared hubs are about 8% less efficient than a derailleur, according to a pro-hubgear website:

http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/geare ... erailleur/

UndercoverElephant

snailracer wrote:

Weight won't make much difference on a loaded-up bike on a flat commute. However Shimano geared hubs are about 8% less efficient than a derailleur, according to a pro-hub gear website:

http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/geare ... erailleur/

That depends on the gear you're using. There is a direct drive gear (gear 5?), which is almost as efficient as a single-speed.

snailracer

UndercoverElephant wrote:

snailracer wrote:

Weight won't make much difference on a loaded-up bike on a flat commute. However Shimano geared hubs are about 8% less efficient than a derailleur, according to a pro-hub gear website:

http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/geare ... erailleur/

That depends on the gear you're using. There is a direct drive gear (gear 5?), which is almost as efficient as a single-speed.

On a Nexus, yes. Not on an Alfine, AFAIK.

The Rookie

Hmm sounds like ideally you need a custom build bike, nice light ally SS frame, Alfine hub and custom parts - I guess as you can abuse the C2W scheme a bit that is an option? Even give you a choice of flats/drops (or a wacky on-one Mungo perhaps)...

My route is similarily broken to yours (thanks Warwicks CC!) and I use 26" wheels with semi-slicks for some 'forgiveness', running 1x9 with a 46T front to get the gearing right for my commute.

Simon

Eau Rouge

Jeepie wrote:

Someone will be posting a picture of the Paris-Roubaix shortly!

Even better than a picture, a story from Pez on some of the pave sections...

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4839

jeepie

Cheers for the Paris-Roubaix posts people! I knew I could count on you.

J

dubnut71

Thanks guys for all the advice, the CX option (cyclocross right?) is appealing as the drops may be an advantage on Windy days, I will run it once on the roadbike (planet x) to see if they give me the benefit I feel they will.

I am a bit of a luddite and a alfine equippned roadrat with drop's (like vorsprungs) really apeals to me, I will see if anyonel local is prepared to lend me one, maybe my LBS will do me a sale or return!!!! :?

jamesco

@¡Bye Ya!

I read your location out loud and reckon you're in my old uni town - Auckland, eh? Auckland is rather hilly (what, 50 volcanoes?) so do you think this weighs against your Alfine experience, compared to a flatter city?

BTW - where are you commuting from/to for 20 miles?

Aapje

UndercoverElephant wrote:

snailracer wrote:

That depends on the gear you're using. There is a direct drive gear (gear 5?), which is almost as efficient as a single-speed.

On a Nexus, yes. Not on an Alfine, AFAIK.

Both have direct drive as 5th gear.

snailracer

Aapje wrote:

snailracer wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:

snailracer wrote:

That depends on the gear you're using. There is a direct drive gear (gear 5?), which is almost as efficient as a single-speed.

On a Nexus, yes. Not on an Alfine, AFAIK.

Both have direct drive as 5th gear.

I think you're right, Nexus-8 and Alfine-8 both have DD in gear 5 , my reference says it's just Nexus-7 that doesn't:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/internal-gears.html#nexus8
I would still counter that a derailleur is single-speed efficient in every gear.

O'Day

jamesco wrote:

@¡Bye Ya!

I read your location out loud and reckon you're in my old uni town - Auckland, eh? Auckland is rather hilly (what, 50 volcanoes?) so do you think this weighs against your Alfine experience, compared to a flatter city?

BTW - where are you commuting from/to for 20 miles?

Auckland it is. Up & down is part of the awkward in the City for sure. Over 50 volcanic 'vents' apparently. I live on one of the larger ones, Mt Eden. On the one hand, there's the uphill, on the other, there's the down. Repeat. No massive climbs on my commute, but it does sap energy.

If I was in a flatter city I'd ride SS or fixed I guess. Earlier in the thread 'The Beginner' mentions adding an Alfine hub to a light alloy SS frame. That's my thinking too. I thought 8 gears rather than 1 might be the way but ultimately I find that heavy frame + rolling hills = retarded velocity.

The 20Mile (round) is the commute I'll be doing when I move (back) to Wellington in a few months. Between the Hutt Valley and Wellington City. Looking forward to that. Mostly flat and only about 3 sets of traffic lights over the ten miles.

Did you cycle in Auckland? How'd you find the difference between NZ and UK in terms of drivers and roads?

warlock_the_great

WAHOOO!!!!! 1st post!!!

Right, well I've got the Charge Tap with the Nexus 8sp. It is a tad heavy but I like steel frames so I'll take the hit on the weight. And I'll agree that the hub is a little inefficient due to the internal friction. I've fitted some On-One Mary bars for a caddish cruiser look so I'm not exactly aero dynamic but I can still do the 8 miles to work in about 30 mins and i'm very unfit, mainly due to the large amount of booze and fags I consume! :shock:

Don't go for the revo shifters..they're garbage, I fitted some Alfline triggers and they're lush!

Now I'm off to work out my FCN but I'm stupid and it confuses me!

Hello All!

dubnut71

all good advice guys - I certainly appreciate it, went to the LBS on Saturdayand rode a specialized hybrid that had the 8 spd alfine hub and from a riding point of view I realised its not really going to suit me over my distance (17 miles). Fanstastic bit of kit though and if I had a more town based commute then it would be no1 on my list!

Ended up blowing my money on a Spec Tricross Sport instead!!!!!

jamesco

¡Bye Ya! wrote:

If I was in a flatter city I'd ride SS or fixed I guess. Earlier in the thread 'The Beginner' mentions adding an Alfine hub to a light alloy SS frame. That's my thinking too. I thought 8 gears rather than 1 might be the way but ultimately I find that heavy frame + rolling hills = retarded velocity.

Did you cycle in Auckland? How'd you find the difference between NZ and UK in terms of drivers and roads?

Good stuff. That new Alfine 11 hub is meant to be a bit lighter & more efficient, looks very tempting.

I only cycled in NZ while at school, 20 years ago, now, so things will have changed. I actually flatted in Mt. Eden for a bit, but used a motorbike to get around 8) NZ drivers seem a wee bit aggressive and impatient, which isn't a great combination with the generally twisty roads, but the roads themselves are brilliant - great scenery and no potholes! All up, I'd happily swap with you, if only my better half was willing to make the move!