Hollowtech 2 high maintainance?

freehub
freehub Posts: 4,257
edited April 2010 in Workshop
Does everyone find they have to take the none drive side crank off every so often when it starts creaking and then just put it back on?

Every so often, I get creaking which is always from the none drive side, I got it today and it was pretty bad, so I took it off, and put it back on, the creaking has since gone. I tighten the bolts as tight as I can get them with a multi tool, I don't think I can over tighten them with it as I can't get enough leverage so hopefully that is ok.

Any ideas?



Thanks
Will.
«1

Comments

  • toontra
    toontra Posts: 1,160
    My Hollowtech squeaked really badly on my new ti-frame bike so I took it to the LBS for them to re-face the BB shell (the company I bought the bike from claimed to have done this already) - no more squeaks!


    a serious case of small cogs
  • freehub
    freehub Posts: 4,257
    Well I've had it on both my bikes, and with multiple bb's too.
  • GavH
    GavH Posts: 933
    freehub wrote:
    I tighten the bolts as tight as I can get them with a multi tool

    I've never had this problem. You should not be tightening them as much as you are, overtightening is the likely cause of your problem. Tighten each bolt alternatley, I'd say a quarter turn on each one until it starts to feel tight, but still 'loose' enough that you'll be thinking that you could go further.

    No doubt someone with more experience than me in this field (I've only fitted HT2 cups on bikes twice) will have a better solution, the gold plated probably involving a torque wrench, but I'd guess as a first stab, your problems are arising from you overtightening the bolts which is having an impact on your bearings.
  • topdude
    topdude Posts: 1,557
    You need to tighten them a lot more than a multitool will manage, then the creaking will stop.
    Grease the splines and bolt threads and use a torque wrench, you will be surprised just how tight the recommended torque is :D
    He is not the messiah, he is a very naughty boy !!
  • freehub
    freehub Posts: 4,257
    I've fitted the cranks countless times as well as had other people (That's shows how many damn times it's being creaking), and it seems like tightening them as tight as I can with the multi tool must be fine (not wear I'm proper pushing it round with both hands), it's just when it was done with a torque wrench, I remembers how tight that was and try to copy that.

    If it was overtightened would the cranks be stiff? I can spin em feely, no resistance as far as I can tell.
    topdude wrote:
    You need to tighten them a lot more than a multitool will manage, then the creaking will stop.
    Grease the splines and bolt threads and use a torque wrench, you will be surprised just how tight the recommended torque is :D

    The thing is greased to ****, I might get a torque wrench or borrow someone elses.
  • Wappygixer
    Wappygixer Posts: 1,396
    I've never had an issue with mine.
    As above says tighten them bit by bit.Don't torque one down to max then the other do it gradually.
    Get rid of that multitool too and use a proper hex key to get the right purchase on it.
  • Never had any problem with HT2 cranks. Always followed the installation instructions and it worked fine. The pinch bolts on the non-drive side do not need a high torque at all 12Nm if I remember correctly.

    http://www.shimano.com.au/publish/conte ... lation.pdf

    £1.25 for sign up http://www.quidco.com/user/491172/42301

    Cashback on wiggle,CRC,evans follow the link
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  • fizz
    fizz Posts: 483
    The only trouble I have had with regard to my 105 Hollowtech II was down to tiny pieces of grit getting in between the pedal arm and the bearing shell outer face. Removing the arm, taking the chain set out and cleaning the faces and pedal arm a dab of grease on the splines and then putting it back together again solved it.

    Its done it once or twice. I wander if your squeaking is being caused by the same issue and when you remove chain set its clearing the dirt out and thats why the squeaking stops.
  • Barrie_G
    Barrie_G Posts: 479
    Try it without the grease, it may be all the lubrication that's allowing it to move slightly and with it being done up tight it's resonating through the axle.
  • Squeeks and creaks often sound like they're coming from the BB when they are actually from elsewhere on the bike. There was a recent thread on ww where everyone was admitting their stupid mistakes - I for one have taken off, lubed, retorqued, etc a campag UT crank twice to get rid of the noise, only to find it was a pedal, and I almost did the same on my other bike only to find it was the rear hub. In both cases it absolutely sounded like the bottom bracket.

    In your case, it may well be, but I'd also check: pedals, rear hub, stem/bar bolts (yes, really it can still sound like its coming from the bb....), seatpost and saddle

    (and then add your story to the ww thread :) )

    jon
  • acidstrato
    acidstrato Posts: 945
    haven't touched the one on my Giant which is 2 years old, if anything its prob about time I did but tbh it doesn't feel like I even need too. so high maintenance...Hell No

    If it aint broke, keep riding it till it is
    Crafted in Italy apparantly
  • Supergoose
    Supergoose Posts: 1,089
    freehub wrote:
    If it was overtightened would the cranks be stiff? I can spin em feely, no resistance as far as I can tell.
    Hollowtech 2 high maintainance?

    The are idiot proof.

    You arent tightening the pinch bolts to the specified torque, as mentioned you'd be very surprised how tight the rating is. From memory its around 14nm which is alot

    Anti seize grease liberally on both threads.

    Should you not have one, borrow someone's long Allen key then tighten them systematically, evenly, then get a lever 10mm steel tube would be smashing, and tighten them more until the vein pops at your forehead, you go red and you do that blowing out your mouth thing. I'tll be about 12nm then which will be ok.
    Rock 'n' Roule
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    I have this problem too.

    I'll try the really tight approach!
  • freehub
    freehub Posts: 4,257
    Supergoose wrote:
    freehub wrote:
    If it was overtightened would the cranks be stiff? I can spin em feely, no resistance as far as I can tell.
    Hollowtech 2 high maintainance?

    The are idiot proof.

    You arent tightening the pinch bolts to the specified torque, as mentioned you'd be very surprised how tight the rating is. From memory its around 14nm which is alot

    Anti seize grease liberally on both threads.

    Should you not have one, borrow someone's long Allen key then tighten them systematically, evenly, then get a lever 10mm steel tube would be smashing, and tighten them more until the vein pops at your forehead, you go red and you do that blowing out your mouth thing. I'tll be about 12nm then which will be ok.

    You sure that's the tightness it should be? That hard?

    I installed the BB cups myself and with the big park tools tool I did them till I was about to blow up. I need to extend it with a giant adjustable park tools spanner to loosen em.

    I'll give it a try though. Although where the crank is tightened on, on the axel there is gash marks, as in it's being over tightened at some point. Unless it's normal due to tightening.
    acidstrato wrote:
    haven't touched the one on my Giant which is 2 years old, if anything its prob about time I did but tbh it doesn't feel like I even need too. so high maintenance...Hell No

    If it aint broke, keep riding it till it is

    You telling me if you had a creak coming from your bike but it appeared to be running smoothly you'd not bother doing anything about it? I could feel the click and even if I could just hear a click, clicks need to go, I'm only happy when my bike is running smooth and quiet.
  • Supergoose
    Supergoose Posts: 1,089
    freehub wrote:
    Supergoose wrote:
    freehub wrote:
    If it was overtightened would the cranks be stiff? I can spin em feely, no resistance as far as I can tell.
    Hollowtech 2 high maintainance?

    The are idiot proof.

    You arent tightening the pinch bolts to the specified torque, as mentioned you'd be very surprised how tight the rating is. From memory its around 14nm which is alot

    Anti seize grease liberally on both threads.

    Should you not have one, borrow someone's long Allen key then tighten them systematically, evenly, then get a lever 10mm steel tube would be smashing, and tighten them more until the vein pops at your forehead, you go red and you do that blowing out your mouth thing. I'tll be about 12nm then which will be ok.

    You sure that's the tightness it should be? That hard?

    Dear God, the crank bolts not the cups!
    Rock 'n' Roule
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    i greased the splines before installing as per instructions and have never had any creaking. although its now developed an annoying knocking sound from somewhere after many miles. it could ber elsewhere though or just the winter put pay to it.
  • freehub
    freehub Posts: 4,257
    Supergoose wrote:
    freehub wrote:
    Supergoose wrote:
    freehub wrote:
    If it was overtightened would the cranks be stiff? I can spin em feely, no resistance as far as I can tell.
    Hollowtech 2 high maintainance?

    The are idiot proof.

    You arent tightening the pinch bolts to the specified torque, as mentioned you'd be very surprised how tight the rating is. From memory its around 14nm which is alot

    Anti seize grease liberally on both threads.

    Should you not have one, borrow someone's long Allen key then tighten them systematically, evenly, then get a lever 10mm steel tube would be smashing, and tighten them more until the vein pops at your forehead, you go red and you do that blowing out your mouth thing. I'tll be about 12nm then which will be ok.

    You sure that's the tightness it should be? That hard?

    Dear God, the crank bolts not the cups!

    I know what you meant.

    I was merely mentioning that the BB cup I tightened like that, you sure the bolts you're supposed to tightened that hard, I'd have thought I'd strip the threads if I used that much force.
  • Supergoose
    Supergoose Posts: 1,089
    Yes.
    Rock 'n' Roule
  • sturmey
    sturmey Posts: 964
    I have had to take my left arm off twice and clean regrease and retighten to stop the creaking. It is a common problem on the Hollowtech cranks.The left hand one creaked from new. I would say this was caused by the pinchbolts being TOO tight rather than the other way round, as I found out when I undid them. The creak disappeared for 2000 miles after greasing and retightening(evenly) the pinchbolts.
  • Smokin Joe
    Smokin Joe Posts: 2,706
    sturmey wrote:
    I have had to take my left arm off twice and clean regrease and retighten to stop the creaking. It is a common problem on the Hollowtech cranks.The left hand one creaked from new. I would say this was caused by the pinchbolts being TOO tight rather than the other way round, as I found out when I undid them. The creak disappeared for 2000 miles after greasing and retightening(evenly) the pinchbolts.

    Had that problem with my bollox. Plenty of lube rubbed well in and it stopped.
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    unless your bottom bracket frame has developed a crack and thats why its creaking will?
  • freehub
    freehub Posts: 4,257
    Well next time it creaks, I'll keep in mind to extra tighten it, I'll take the tool with me and if need be I'll have the whole crankset off even if I'm 50 miles from safety.
  • acidstrato
    acidstrato Posts: 945
    freehub wrote:
    acidstrato wrote:
    haven't touched the one on my Giant which is 2 years old, if anything its prob about time I did but tbh it doesn't feel like I even need too. so high maintenance...Hell No

    If it aint broke, keep riding it till it is

    You telling me if you had a creak coming from your bike but it appeared to be running smoothly you'd not bother doing anything about it? I could feel the click and even if I could just hear a click, clicks need to go, I'm only happy when my bike is running smooth and quiet.


    I'd investigate but unless it was obvious that something was seriously wrong then nope I wouldnt bother. My Giant has required very minimal servicing since the day I bought it, only chain and cassette has had to be replaced. Sure I've had the odd noises but nothing too alarming. other than slapping abit of grease at the seat post and headset and stem I've done nothing and any sounds I may have thought came from the BB have come and gone

    Fair enough if creaks and clicks irritate you, majority of posts in this thread would suggest that the HT II BB is pretty reliable though. fingers crossed it just needs further tightening
    Crafted in Italy apparantly
  • freehub
    freehub Posts: 4,257
    Since I bought my bike, I've done around 5000 miles on it

    The new parts it's had is:

    headset
    chainset ring
    cassette
    BB
    Chain
    2 wheels


    That's not bad is it?
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    that quite a lot of maintenance isnt it.
  • mudcovered
    mudcovered Posts: 725
    freehub wrote:
    I've fitted the cranks countless times as well as had other people (That's shows how many damn times it's being creaking), and it seems like tightening them as tight as I can with the multi tool must be fine (not wear I'm proper pushing it round with both hands), it's just when it was done with a torque wrench, I remembers how tight that was and try to copy that.
    Tightening by feel is a tricky business. Especially when comparing a torque wrench with a multi-tool. The torque wrench will have a much longer handle than your multitool. This means that you will need to apply more force with the multi-tool to get the same level of tightness.

    Another point which nobody seems to have mentioned is that the bolts that hold the pedal onto the spline are not part of the bearing adjustment. That is controled by the bolt that goes over the end of the crank (which IIRC is plastic on shimano designs), you really don't want to overtighten that.

    As others have said, clean the splines on the spindle and the pedal and grease them.
    Put the crank arms on the spline and use the end bold to snug it up to the bearings. This doesn't really need any force at all.
    Then tighten the clamp bolts keeping things balanced by alternating tightening on each bolt. Torque for these bolts is quite high so if you are using a multitool I'd expect to feel like a lot of force at the end of this process.

    I've got an FSA crank which is similar in design to the hollowtech shimano ones. It uses the same BB cups and general design. The only difference is a metal end bolt that is tightened with a hex key instead of the plastic one requiring a special tool that Shimano use and this process has kept my cranks running creak free for over 4000 miles since I changed the BB bearings.

    Mike
  • freehub
    freehub Posts: 4,257
    How tight exactly does the plastic end cap want to be? I do it up so it's tight, it's only a little circle tool so no leverage, just using fingers. I always thought, if it's done up finger tight like that and the cranks move freely with no apparent extra resistance then it's fine?
  • MrChuck
    MrChuck Posts: 1,663
    freehub wrote:
    How tight exactly does the plastic end cap want to be? I do it up so it's tight, it's only a little circle tool so no leverage, just using fingers. I always thought, if it's done up finger tight like that and the cranks move freely with no apparent extra resistance then it's fine?

    I think so, the tool for the cap is designed the slightly odd way it is so you can't overtighten it.

    Back to creaking- I've also just banished a creaking noise by removing, cleaning and replacing the cranks. But it doesn't seem to need doing very often and it's very easy to do on HT II so I'm not sure I'd say it's high maintenance as such.

    And I'd second getting a torque wrench.
  • freehub
    freehub Posts: 4,257
    What's the cheapest price for a good torque wrench that can get the job done?
  • MrChuck
    MrChuck Posts: 1,663
    I've got one of these, and it seems OK:
    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/tools/wrenches/product/tool-shed-torque-wrench-35229

    I got it for <£50 online.