Slogging up Hill.

I Don\'t Get It

When slogging in the 'Granny Rings' up a long very steep climb, thumping heartbeat and heavy panting is the order of the day.Yet when getting off and pushing it only takes half the effort.

I'm climbing at the same speed, and lifting the same total weight in both cases, so why the difference? (In pushing, I lean forward and spring off my toes, while in riding I'm pressing downwards on the pedals. Presumably the extra effort is required when the cranks have passed the point of being parallel with the ground. That makes me think that cyclists could do with four legs and doubled up cranks!)

Hercule Q

raise your seat a bit and climbing will be alot easier

Raymondavalon

I do believe it goes beyond seating, it's down to fitness and stamina.
We're designed to walk, so getting off the bike and pushing will be easier than trying to crank up an ascent as it comes naturally to us.

I've always believed that if I can walk up a hill faster than I can chug up it in granny gear, I'll dismount and push. However it's often my human spirit that keeps me in the saddle pounding away in granny gears feeling like my heart is going to climb out of my throat up those killer hills.
Plus, there's nothing worse than being passed by a fellow rider while pushing up a hill..

Radioactiveman

Besides fitness various things make climbing easier.

Stem length/saddle position i.e. more weight forward
Relatively high and smooth cadence
Good line choice
Practice
Saddle height

I Don\'t Get It

They are all fair points, and I DO peddle in the most advantageous position, and CAN generally keep going. The point I was making was that walking and pushing takes less 'horse power' than peddling, so what is eating up the power output on the bike?

I can only think it's the rotating crank problem even IF you lean forward. (Parts of the rotation cycle must be more inefficient than others.)

TowerRider

The adjustment of seat height certainly helped me BUT I felt very down on last ride when I was climbing a hill and not catching a runner in front of me.

JamesBrckmn

soft suspension and soft tyres with soft compounds, rubbing brakes etc. can make you work a lot harder when your pedalling uphill

I Don\'t Get It

Doh! Just drawn it out and figured leverage angles. Blindingly obvious. Why didn't I think of it before?

There is only one position for each crank to be in to generate maximum power from a vertically powered pedal stroke. That is at 90 degrees to the vertical force. (Furthest forward position.) As soon as it passes that point (or preceeds it ) the leverage lessens.

Now if somebody could invent a fully up and down non power loss pedal stroke each side, we'd all ride up hills much faster.

The Northern Monkey

Walking is boring!

wavey1490

dont forget you may be turning the pedals faster than walking therefore your heart rate maybe higher as your muscles are in need of more O2 so this will have an effect on cycling over walking too

SDK2007

If you're pushing up hills then you'll never get fit to ride up them.
Take the pain for the gain

I Don\'t Get It

Oh dear! I DO ride up hills! I hate to be beaten by any climb! That wasn't the point I was making.

The only point in the crank revolution at which maximum turning force is applied (to chain and sprockets and back wheel) is when the downward pressing leg is at exactly 90 degrees to the crank. i.e. when the descending crank is in the furthest forward position, parrallel to the ground. No matter how hard you press, any other crank position can not convert that pressure fully, to turning force at the back wheel.

You can be as fit as you like, and go purple in the face, but on a steep climb, a runner will beat you for less energy expenditure. It's a problem of leverage.

RealMan

I find pushing harder, much prefer to ride as much as I can. Its quicker, too.

cgarossi

I find pushing uphill much more tiring on the legs!

robertpb

[quote="

You can be as fit as you like, and go purple in the face, but on a steep climb, a runner will beat you for less energy expenditure. It's a problem of leverage.[/quote]

A runner should be using less energy because he's not lugging a lump of metal and a backpack up the incline.

blister pus

Aahhh. Hills.

Pure psychology past a certain level of fitness, breathing technique and saddle height.

I Don\'t Get It

Quote:
A runner should be using less energy because he's not lugging a lump of metal and a backpack up the incline.

If he'd been in the army he would!!!!

captainfly

When pushing you can use your body weight to help you push, where as pedaling is all muscle. I have found that spinning in to low a gear is what wastes energy up hill try a taller gear.

Radioactiveman

captainfly wrote:

When pushing you can use your body weight to help you push, where as pedaling is all muscle. I have found that spinning in to low a gear is what wastes energy up hill try a taller gear.

Seems odd I thought spinning an easy gear used less energy as less force was required to turn the cranks?

blister pus

depends how fast you're spinning as to how much energy wasting you're doing, I guess.

FavouriteColour

Go flat out up the hill until you pass out, tomorrow it will be easier

blister pus

^ Rinse and repeat for a few months. And that's about the size of it too.

MrChuck

FavouriteColour wrote:

Go flat out up the hill until you pass out, tomorrow it will be easier

I don't think he's wondering how to get better- he's wondering about the physics involved in making it seem less work to push a bike up the same hill at the same speed than it does to ride it up.

blister pus

and what he's saying is the more you do it the easier it becomes.

RealMan

Yeah, I'm betting its different muscles involved in pushing and riding, so if you do one more then the other, it will become easier.

rudedog

I Don\'t Get It wrote:

When slogging in the 'Granny Rings' up a long very steep climb, thumping heartbeat and heavy panting is the order of the day.Yet when getting off and pushing it only takes half the effort.

I'm climbing at the same speed, and lifting the same total weight in both cases, so why the difference? (In pushing, I lean forward and spring off my toes, while in riding I'm pressing downwards on the pedals. Presumably the extra effort is required when the cranks have passed the point of being parallel with the ground. That makes me think that cyclists could do with four legs and doubled up cranks!)

Maybe you're going slower when walking without realising

Raymondavalon

Ugh.. today @ Cannock while granny gearing up the hill to the 2nd entrance of FtD a fellow rider powered past me on an Orange 5 and shouted "come on whippersnapper" which I found strange as I am no youngster.
At the top he was taking a well deserved break and he turned out to be 75 years young!
He told me it's practice that gets him up the hills and it was his second lap of the day,

Anyway, that has inspired me to tackle those Cannock Chase hills from bottom to top without dismounting in the future

Steve_b77

There's no easy way round it, just ride more hills and then it'll be easier.

Only ever push sideways or backwards, never up - just take a breather and get back on it.

Yesterday a group of us tackled a hill thats known amongst us as "Fail Hill", I asked the group leader if he'd ever seen anyone make it - he said yeah, 2 guys once, on moto X bikes

I Don\'t Get It

Thank you Mr Chuck!!!

I'm beginning to think all the others have blown a gasket in their brainboxes by their constant exertions, and denial of the laws of physics!

blister pus

Nah. You're just not fit enough and looking for excuses.

GHill

I think you pretty much nailed it with crank position. Cadence required to spin up the hills will also be a factor.