Cycle to work, not all its cracked up to be!!!!!!!!

itsnotaboutthebike

My employer has just signed up to the cycle to work scheme after a 2year campaign to get it introduced, now it is in place it seems that there are a number of pit falls associated with this scheme, firstly the company is under no obligation to sell you the cycle after the initial hire period so in theory you could end up paying for a cycle for 12 months and end up with nothing if the company decides to keep their asset!!! secondly, although it is the companies property and loaned to you, you are expected to insure their property WTF! I have a particular gripe with this as the bike shed at my place of work looks straight onto a main road with easy acess for anyone who wishes to half inch a decent bike!

On another point the max value in the government info is limitless but by default the max credit limit allowed is £1000, (without credit licence) so that effectivly re writes that rule, as a serious cyclist who was hoping to benifit from this £1000 is not a great deal to spend on a bike I would be using at the weekends also, so spending double that and more is a serious consideration from my point of view.

Basically I dont think much of this scheme for the serious cyclist, possibly ok if your buying a £300 jobie from Halfords (who is our companies chosen supplier) Oh my god dont ride it before you get it checked at a proper bike shop!!!!!!! believe me Ive had experience with Hafords.......SH1T.....ok thats my rant over with, do let me know your thought and ways round the obvious pitfalls I have mentioned!!!!!

alfablue

Heard it all before, but never ever heard of an employer choosing to keep the bikes. I got a Planet-X carbon/Dura Ace, and this year a Condor Heritage tourer, each cost me about £650 - I am delighted, but then, perhaps I'm not a serious cyclist

Just remember, its about cycling to work - if you need more serious machines than those I got, you are obviously very special!

itsnotaboutthebike

Lol.....not a pro by any means but I have no quams about spending money on my bikes, I just cant get enough of the things, I cycle to work anyway on my 16yr old Orange Alu O, but was hoping to take advantage of this scheme to save a bit of hard earned cash on a shiny new stead, I have heard of people buying all sorts of exotica through the scheme but couldnt see how under the rules and regs, does anyone know if you can add money to the price in the form of a deposit?? As my user name suggest Im by no means a bike snob, certainly no Pina dogmas or carbon storcks in my garage but I do appreciate a good quality machine!! and dont mind spending the money for it.

itsnotaboutthebike

Irony .........I believe Lol........ well some will buy an M3 but cant streach to that so it ends up being bikes instead!

alfablue

I don't think there is an HMRC rule against adding money to the sum, but doing so blurs the issue of ownership so generally speaking, employers an the schemes they use prohibit this. However, when I bought the Condor late last year, I specced the bike exactly as I wanted and it came to £1300, I just paid the £300 over the voucher at time of ordering, and they didn't bat an eyelid, so it just depends on the shop you use (Planet-X were also fine about me paying extra).

itsnotaboutthebike

Cheers alfablue, from what my employer has sent out this seems to be the grey area, but its exactly what I was hoping to do, I think I may have to sweet talk the HR dept to do this and to be honest probably wasting my breath but its worth a try!

kelsen

I think you're forgetting the fact that this is a scheme to encourage people to cycle to work, not to allow them to buy bling weekend racing machines on the cheap; so £1000 for a commuting bike is more than enough in my opinion.

I believe the official line is you're not allowed to top up the voucher amount, but it seems most retailers are happy for you to do so. There wouldn't be any need to involve your HR dept as you buy the bike at the shop as normal and just pay for it using a voucher, topping it up with cash if they allow you to.

I haven't heard any instances of employers keeping the bike at the end of the period either; and there weren't any conditions in my company scheme stating that I needed to insure it, just one saying I was still liable for the payments if it was damaged or stolen, which is fair enough.

itsnotaboutthebike

Yeah I realise the intention of the scheme, BUT if there is a way to save some cash then Im not going to turn it down!

The problem with adding funds to the purchase is that the bike is actually 'legaly' the property of the company until, if and when they decide to allow you to purchase the cycle, which is another grey area as its states it should be sold on for the market value, which I dont get! if you have paid the full amount initially over the 12 month period :roll:

mroli

You haven't paid the full amount though have you? You've taken off the tax. Loads of people moan about the terms and conditions around this, but we're yet to hear about anyone having problems in practice.

And if you spend more than £1k chances are that it will be on groupset/wheels largely - doubt if anyone would notice you swapping these at the end of the day....

kelsen

You're basically leasing it for 12 months and buying it off them for a nominal amount at the end of the period. This final amount is calculated to be the residual value of the bike after 12 months based on the original voucher value.

The total amount you end up paying is around 60% of the amount you applied for assuming tax at the higher rate.

With regards to your concerns about your employer keeping the bike, this is highly unlikely, but if they did, not much can be done if it got 'nicked' just before you were due to hand it back...

crispycritter

I have just taken up my 3rd years voucher with cycle to work through my employer. If you want to add to the £1000 speak to your local bike shop nicely. Cycle to work expressly forbid adding to the maximum limit but it's a very difficult thing for them to stop people doing. Once you have the voucher in your sweaty mitt then it's almost impossible for them to find out what you've done with it with regards to adding cash. The organisation I work for has set up over 500 schemes over a 5 year period and no one has had to give their bike back unless they wanted to. At the end of the day it's your responsibility to insure the bike after you buy it so if all else fails as Kelsen say's, it could be nicked at any time.

rolf_f

itsnotaboutthebike wrote:

Basically I dont think much of this scheme for the serious cyclist, possibly ok if your buying a £300 jobie from Halfords (who is our companies chosen supplier)

What on earth are you on about?! The scheme allows you to buy up to £1000 of bike - not £300. I think your maths is a bit off!

Seriously, I got an Orange P7 mountain bike off the scheme year (which I cycle to work on) before last and this year (still waiting) have used the voucher as part payment on a posh bike which I'll use to cycle to work on when the P7 wears out (which will be about in the mid 2050s which is long after I'll have retired).

The cycle to work scheme is a great deal however you look at it.

Besides, didn't you know - it's not about the bike

BTW - due to all sorts of hassle, although I've paid well over half the voucher off, I still haven't got the bike. I suppose if the paranoid were correct, I could have to hand by new bike over to my employer before I'd even ridden it

always_tyred

Its a Brownian scheme though, isn't it? Very clever, but very complicated. So complicated that it effectively deters a huge proportion of employers, which renders it largely useless to all but the lucky ones, which is pretty stupid. Like I said, very Brownian.

tailwindhome

Always Tyred wrote:

Its a Brownian scheme though, isn't it? Very clever, but very complicated. So complicated that it effectively deters a huge proportion of employers, which renders it largely useless to all but the lucky ones, which is pretty stupid. Like I said, very Brownian.

I think that's just something for a lazy employer to use as an excuse. My understanding is that so long as your payroll system can deal with the salary sacrifice it's very straightforward.


There was a thread somewhere on the Road forum suggesting that HMRC were beginning to tighten up on 'Fair Market Value' which most employers treated as a nominal value.

If this were true the scheme could become significantly less attractive.

I'll try later to find the thread.

marcthehammer

Hi.I bought my second bike on the cycletowork as well.I put an extra £300 with no probs at all.

AndyManc

If you can pay cash then I would always do so, you can often haggle a good deal with many extras thrown in, and ... you can always support your local bike shop.

I would never use bike to work, just not worth the hassle, plus , the way industrial relation are with the company I work for, they would want the bike back just to punish the staff.

.

always_tyred

TailWindHome wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

Its a Brownian scheme though, isn't it? Very clever, but very complicated. So complicated that it effectively deters a huge proportion of employers, which renders it largely useless to all but the lucky ones, which is pretty stupid. Like I said, very Brownian.

I think that's just something for a lazy employer to use as an excuse. My understanding is that so long as your payroll system can deal with the salary sacrifice it's very straightforward.

There was a thread somewhere on the Road forum suggesting that HMRC were beginning to tighten up on 'Fair Market Value' which most employers treated as a nominal value.

If this were true the scheme could become significantly less attractive.

I'll try later to find the thread.

What ids it with people changing their user names? I can't keep up.

Its not that the scheme is totally unworkable, but given that it is impracticable for all small employers (like mine) and unavailable to self employed people like contractors, and IS complex enough to deter a large number of employers, I'd say that its not fit for purpose.

What precisely is wrong with redeemable vouchers, or one off VAT exemptions, with an option for costs to be amatorised by an employer without this ludicrous fiction of the bicycle actually belonging to the company, I don't know.

rolf_f

AndyManc wrote:

I would never use bike to work, just not worth the hassle, plus , the way industrial relation are with the company I work for, they would want the bike back just to punish the staff.

Can't comment on the latter but in terms of hassle - what hassle? I've certainly not had any. You're unlikely to get 50% off without the scheme, I support my LBS using the scheme, I get to buy now, pay later at no cost - there are no downsides that I can see. Honestly, it is no hassle at all.

Downwardi

So you are happy to spend £2k on a bike to ride to work but not happy about having to insure it ?

£1k is way enough for a commuter cycle. In fact most people who start off commuting will pay a max of £400 for a bike which is plenty.

It seems that the ones that are moaning are the ones who will only use their bikes for their leisure and not the reason that cyclesheme was created for.

Our company offered a scheme before cyclescheme won the tender where there was no limit.
I have never seen any of those bikes in the bike sheds at work either. A nice little £1k saving for those rich enough to afford £3k for a bike anyway.

Downwardi

Rolf F wrote:

AndyManc wrote:

I would never use bike to work, just not worth the hassle, plus , the way industrial relation are with the company I work for, they would want the bike back just to punish the staff.

Can't comment on the latter but in terms of hassle - what hassle? I've certainly not had any. You're unlikely to get 50% off without the scheme, I support my LBS using the scheme, I get to buy now, pay later at no cost - there are no downsides that I can see. Honestly, it is no hassle at all.

It was loads of hassle. I had to go to the LBS choose a bike which took hours. Then I had to remember the name of the bike I wanted to log into the Cyclescheme website fill in a form which took at least 2 minutes. Then I had to wait a week for the paperwork to come, sign it and return to cyclescheme and wait another 2 weeks for the voucher. Then another trip to the LBS to pick up the bike.

Exhausting. And I have had to do this twice for both my bikes.

itsnotaboutthebike

I think people need to read the post more carefully, I CURRENTLY RIDE MY 16yr OLD ORANGE ALU O TO WORK, which does me fine, I also think that the majority havent read the full gov. document relating to the scheme, which I have, THE BIKE IS THE PROPERTY OF THE COMPAY AS IT IS A TAX DEDUCTABLE BENIFIT.........CLEAR!!! if and yes I admit its unlikely the company choose to keep the asset (cycle) you are basically scuppered, its all there in black and white! I think Im annoyed at like others have said how bloody complex they have made a very simple scheme, with some pitfalls that I feel are un called for, and make me feel un easy in entering into the scheme.

My aim is to save cash........nothing more, I asume most who cycle to work also ride for pleasure through the week and weekends so why shouldnt we take advantage of the scheme, the £1000 limit is fine with me if I can add to it to cover any extra cost, now this is also im my companies policy that they have stated that the £1000 can not be exceeded in any way!!!!!!!!

Some people need to wind their necks in a bit, if I chooses to spend 2K on a bike I bloody well will, if you want to spend 450, 650, 750 thats entirely up to you. 2K in todays bike market is no exactly excessive!!!

tailwindhome

Calm down dear

It's only a bicycle

ExeterSimon

itsnotaboutthebike wrote:

I think people need to read the post more carefully, I CURRENTLY RIDE MY 16yr OLD ORANGE ALU O TO WORK, which does me fine, I also think that the majority havent read the full gov. document relating to the scheme, which I have, THE BIKE IS THE PROPERTY OF THE COMPAY AS IT IS A TAX DEDUCTABLE BENIFIT.........CLEAR!!! if and yes I admit its unlikely the company choose to keep the asset (cycle) you are basically scuppered, its all there in black and white! I think Im annoyed at like others have said how bloody complex they have made a very simple scheme, with some pitfalls that I feel are un called for, and make me feel un easy in entering into the scheme.

My aim is to save cash........nothing more, I asume most who cycle to work also ride for pleasure through the week and weekends so why shouldnt we take advantage of the scheme, the £1000 limit is fine with me if I can add to it to cover any extra cost, now this is also im my companies policy that they have stated that the £1000 can not be exceeded in any way!!!!!!!!

Some people need to wind their necks in a bit, if I chooses to spend 2K on a bike I bloody well will, if you want to spend 450, 650, 750 thats entirely up to you. 2K in todays bike market is no exactly excessive!!!

I can't see where you are coming from. The scheme is for people to buy a bike to commute to work with. You already have a bike for that.

So what you are doing is bending the rules then moaning when you read the small print and find out that the bke isn't yours and after a year you may lose it (very very very unlikely).

I've had two bikes on the scheme....both of which I added funds. I never encountered any problems with either voucher and both were completed within 10 days each (and that's from choosing the bike to picking it up).

The scheme isn't complicated. What makes it complicated is employees who don't understand it and employees who don't read the small print.

always_tyred

TailWindHome wrote:

Calm down dear

It's only a bicycle

Did you used to be WheezyMcChubby?

itsnotaboutthebike

Fully calm now my dears

Im not Scotish but would really like to save cash if possible, I do understand the scheme but there are some ambigious statements in their.

I think this issue is now well and truely exhausted to the point of going round in circles :roll: I have your opinions noted etc etc etc!

Downwardi

itsnotaboutthebike wrote:

Fully calm now my dears

Im not Scotish but would really like to save cash if possible, I do understand the scheme but there are some ambigious statements in their.

I think this issue is now well and truely exhausted to the point of going round in circles :roll: I have your opinions noted etc etc etc!

30% saving is a decent saving lets face it. £350 ish on £1000 but you want £700 saving off £2k ?

You do know it's the government that are getting hit for the 30% don't you ?

AndyManc

Downwardi wrote:

You do know it's the government that are getting hit for the 30% don't you ?

And that's a good thing ? :roll:

They will only have to find the shortfall by increasing taxes elsewhere.

.

Downwardi

AndyManc wrote:

Downwardi wrote:

You do know it's the government that are getting hit for the 30% don't you ?

And that's a good thing ? :roll:

They will only have to find the shortfall by increasing taxes elsewhere.

.

Exactly they don't give with one hand without taking with the other hand.

metalmonkey

Well I have found it all works fine, i got an awesome bike and gear with the voucher.

I found scheme very easy, filled in a bit of paper my boss signed so did I, a few weeks later I had a new bike and gear. For me I don't care it cost so much a month it means I can get work easy like today, it keeps me fit. Can't put a price on that.

However I did ask if they had a sweaty shorts draw that the year old shorts go in! I did ask with skid marks or with out, the phone went dead after that I don't think they want them back!