C2W scheme FRUSTRATION!!!!!!!

crom7

Hi,
Has anyone else had any frustrations with their employers and the C2W scheme??

I work for a local authority and have been told every few months for the last 3 years that we will be "up and running" with the scheme soon. The conversation usually goes something like this:

Q: Hello local authority, are we going to be up and running with the C2W scheme sometime soon?
A: Ummm…..yes we're hoping to be up and running..........by the end of the summer, by late autumn, by Christmas, by the new year, by mid march etc etc etc bla bla bla.

I’m beginning to realise that had I been told that it would take in excess of three years to get the scheme off the ground in the first place (in which case I would have bought a new bike back then), I would have more than likely paid close to 40% less than the current price. Basically buying now through the scheme won’t have saved my anything other than 3 years of not having a new bike!!

Just a rant really but would be interested to hear if anyone has had similar problems.

Stuey01

It seems mad to me that government organisations seem to be the worst at exploiting this government run scheme.

DonDaddyD

Wow. That's poor.

glauciaregina9

It may seem mad "that government organisations seem to be the worst at exploiting this government run scheme", but, I expect, it probably does not seem at all surprising :-)

flippin' annoying for the OP though...

If there were sufficient numbers wanting to make use of the scheme, would that not help apply some pressure to get them to pull their finger out?

roundthebend

My employer, who must have a few thousand employees nationally and spread out all over the country, have told me that the administration costs are too excessive for the expected number of people who will take it up.

This astonishes me, and frustrates me because at my site alone there are probably 10 people using bikes to commute and several of them (me included) could certainly do with replacing their steeds.

AdeC

I suspect the Tories will be binning this scheme as soon as they're elected. Better tell your obviously very efficient Local Authority HR dept to sort it quick!

However..."been told every few months for the last 3 years". LOL at that. It aint gonna happen is it?

fenboy369

We had the same problem, and it took us over 3 years to get the scheme in. Just hope the next Government see what a good idea it is and dont bin it.

Wrath Rob

roundthebend wrote:

My employer, who must have a few thousand employees nationally and spread out all over the country, have told me that the administration costs are too excessive for the expected number of people who will take it up.

And have you seen any consultation? What have they based this on? Probably a figure pulled out of their ar*e

Its taken 2 years of getting the scheme in where I work, mainly through hassling HR on a regular basis and flagging requests up to anyone who may be involved in any "green" initiative

Bassjunkieuk

Originally when I heard about these schemes (about 3 years ago) I enquired with the HR department if it was something they'd consider and was informed that take up probably wouldn't be high enough to warrant the admin costs,

After we got brought up by a rather large and successful multi-national company I assumed that they must offer the scheme, I mean they must have 10,000's of employees up and down the country! Seems I was wrong....... got the usual "take up wouldn't be high enough, admin costs etc." Might try asking again as I'd really love a new bike!

Worst part is that in my line of work I work with various other business and see these organizations offering the various schemes and not being able to take advantage of them :-(

Still at least I can comfort myself from the fact that I managed to pick up my bike for an excellent price at the time and before bike prices "went a bit mental" ;-)

rf6

I work for a public body who introduced the scheme when it first came out. It's adminstered by a keen biker (which is a HUGE plus). They thought about binning it at one point, but that's because they had everyone apply within a few weeks. Now that you can apply virtually any day of the year it's supposed to not take too much effort - maybe that's worth a mention?

Tusher

I work for a medium sized NHS Trust and have had exactly the same experience as the OP. A group of us e-mail and even try phoning the Travel Manager regularly, but it's always "just a few months from starting up".

Apparently, they are hoping for a 2% take-up from staff. There's no more money for any more, we were told.

Bassjunkieuk

I'm sure I've suggested this before but as I'm sure the whole C2W scheme would be much better if it was centrally administered (if that is at all possible?) so it's not reliant on your company opting to join the scheme. Many of us have found out it's all to easy for our employer to flat out refuse to run the scheme or dodge it as the OP's seem to be doing.

supersonic

I think the whole scheme should be scrapped and replaced with something easier to implement, and easier to follow.

It is a shame that many who would benefit and do commute to work cannot take advantage of it. And quite a large proportion of people who have used the scheme do not commute at all and simply get a nice mountain bike. It doesn't always reach the people who need it, for many of the reasons listed in above posts.

Also the employee does not always understand the terms - it is not your bike, you hire it. You get the opportunity to buy it at the end of the period - but some of been hit hard here too.

If the government are serious about getting people on bikes, all people, then why not take off VAT? Or offer low (or zero) cost finance similar to the student loan scheme?

I am sure it could be done better.

Eau Rouge

supersonic wrote:

I think the whole scheme should be scrapped and replaced with something easier to implement, and easier to follow.

It is a shame that many who would benefit and do commute to work cannot take advantage of it. And quite a large proportion of people who have used the scheme do not commute at all and simply get a nice mountain bike. It doesn't always reach the people who need it, for many of the reasons listed in above posts.

Also the employee does not always understand the terms - it is not your bike, you hire it. You get the opportunity to buy it at the end of the period - but some of been hit hard here too.

If the government are serious about getting people on bikes, all people, then why not take off VAT? Or offer low (or zero) cost finance similar to the student loan scheme?

I am sure it could be done better.

It all makes you wonder that maybe it isn't a scheme to get people riding bikes, that maybe it's real purpose is something else entirely. Is the fact my being on the scheme saved my multi-national employer about 1 to 2 % of my salary a factor maybe? Do we think large multi-nationals, employing hundreds if not thousands of people in whatever EU country takes their fancy most, might be interested in a way to cut their employee costs by 1-2%? Do we think it might help just a little bit in getting them to set up in the UK rather than Ireland or Spain or France?

supersonic

Interesting thoughts! I've not looked at it from that angle before.

shouldbeinbed

crom7 wrote:

Hi,
Has anyone else had any frustrations with their employers and the C2W scheme??

I work for a local authority and have been told every few months for the last 3 years that we will be "up and running" with the scheme soon. The conversation usually goes something like this:

Q: Hello local authority, are we going to be up and running with the C2W scheme sometime soon?
A: Ummm…..yes we're hoping to be up and running..........by the end of the summer, by late autumn, by Christmas, by the new year, by mid march etc etc etc bla bla bla.

I’m beginning to realise that had I been told that it would take in excess of three years to get the scheme off the ground in the first place (in which case I would have bought a new bike back then), I would have more than likely paid close to 40% less than the current price. Basically buying now through the scheme won’t have saved my anything other than 3 years of not having a new bike!!

Just a rant really but would be interested to hear if anyone has had similar problems.

complete sympathy

ours was in the offing for 5 years before it finally landed on the HR desk of someone with a bit of oomph, even then with the magnificent committee and approvals structure of the public sector it still took 10 months longer to implement than hoped. The cycle ethos of my little bit of public service would have to increase 1000% just to make it to p*ss poor.

the_hundredth_idiot

Putting my (well-worn) cynic's hat on, I wonder if it is deliberately designed to be complicated so that take-up is low (so the Govt minimises tax and NI losses from it) while still enabling the Govt to claim they are doing all they can to encourage cycling as a sustainable transport option? A bit like some of the tax credits out there which are so difficult to claim and convoluted in their operation that many people just don't bother.

roundthebend

Wrath Rob wrote:

roundthebend wrote:

My employer, who must have a few thousand employees nationally and spread out all over the country, have told me that the administration costs are too excessive for the expected number of people who will take it up.

And have you seen any consultation? What have they based this on? Probably a figure pulled out of their ar*e

Its taken 2 years of getting the scheme in where I work, mainly through hassling HR on a regular basis and flagging requests up to anyone who may be involved in any "green" initiative

OK, I just dug up the emails from the HR department and this is a summary of the reasons why our company won't run the scheme:

* too much admin - needs Inland Revenue approval (HMRC I guess)
* leasing arrangement is quite complicated for employees
* savings are small - because it's quite normal to be limited to cycle stores where prices aren't as keen so you can probably get a better deal shopping around
* when company ran the Home Computing Initiative only 150 out of 8500 employees took up the scheme
* expected take up for C2W would be lower than that

Headhuunter

AdeC wrote:

I suspect the Tories will be binning this scheme as soon as they're elected. Better tell your obviously very efficient Local Authority HR dept to sort it quick!

However..."been told every few months for the last 3 years". LOL at that. It aint gonna happen is it?

Eh? What makes you think the Tories are suddenly going to bin bike 2 work without warning?

mudcovered

roundthebend wrote:

* too much admin - needs Inland Revenue approval (HMRC I guess)
* leasing arrangement is quite complicated for employees
* savings are small - because it's quite normal to be limited to cycle stores where prices aren't as keen so you can probably get a better deal shopping around
* when company ran the Home Computing Initiative only 150 out of 8500 employees took up the scheme
* expected take up for C2W would be lower than that

WTF? :shock:

Admin. 2 bits of paperwork (lease agreeement and final invoice) bit of setup in payroll system to do the salary sacrifice and potentially raising a PO for the bike.

Leasing is complicated. I bet the lease agreement is less complicated than your employment contract and they expect you to understand that.

Savings are small. If somebody can find the bike shop (online or otherwise) which offers 40%-50& below list on all bikes. I'd like a link or the address.

If they ran the home computer initiative claiming admin overheads is taking the piss. The admin for C2W is the same!

They pay reduced employers NI on your salary for the duration of the salary sacrifice. Unless your admin department is seriously overpaid that should cover the admin costs.

There are loads of salary sacrifice things they probably already deal with and IIRC the rules for deducting them from the salary are standardised so its almost certainly clicking a button in the payroll software.

Mike

Eau Rouge

Headhuunter wrote:

AdeC wrote:

I suspect the Tories will be binning this scheme as soon as they're elected. Better tell your obviously very efficient Local Authority HR dept to sort it quick!

However..."been told every few months for the last 3 years". LOL at that. It aint gonna happen is it?

Eh? What makes you think the Tories are suddenly going to bin bike 2 work without warning?

It's a cost to government, the Tories will want to cut government spending, ergo they will see it as a target to make savings.

roundthebend

mudcovered wrote:

roundthebend wrote:

* too much admin - needs Inland Revenue approval (HMRC I guess)
* leasing arrangement is quite complicated for employees
* savings are small - because it's quite normal to be limited to cycle stores where prices aren't as keen so you can probably get a better deal shopping around
* when company ran the Home Computing Initiative only 150 out of 8500 employees took up the scheme
* expected take up for C2W would be lower than that

WTF? :shock:

Admin. 2 bits of paperwork (lease agreeement and final invoice) bit of setup in payroll system to do the salary sacrifice and potentially raising a PO for the bike.

Leasing is complicated. I bet the lease agreement is less complicated than your employment contract and they expect you to understand that.

Savings are small. If somebody can find the bike shop (online or otherwise) which offers 40%-50& below list on all bikes. I'd like a link or the address.

If they ran the home computer initiative claiming admin overheads is taking the wee-wee. The admin for C2W is the same!

They pay reduced employers NI on your salary for the duration of the salary sacrifice. Unless your admin department is seriously overpaid that should cover the admin costs.

There are loads of salary sacrifice things they probably already deal with and IIRC the rules for deducting them from the salary are standardised so its almost certainly clicking a button in the payroll software.

Mike

Indeed. From the reply I got I guess that the HR department were going to try and administer the scheme entirely themselves whereas I think it might be more common to use a scheme provider such as Cyclescheme?

I received an email from Cyclescheme explaining what was required of my company and it does look fairly straight forward.

I'm forward the info to the HR department with the hope that I can prompt them to at least look into it again.

Headhuunter

Eau Rouge wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

AdeC wrote:

I suspect the Tories will be binning this scheme as soon as they're elected. Better tell your obviously very efficient Local Authority HR dept to sort it quick!

However..."been told every few months for the last 3 years". LOL at that. It aint gonna happen is it?

Eh? What makes you think the Tories are suddenly going to bin bike 2 work without warning?

It's a cost to government, the Tories will want to cut government spending, ergo they will see it as a target to make savings.

I can see that but there has been no indication that this is something they plan and whilst they wish to reduce expenditure, there's also a fairly heavy emphasis on emmissions reduction in major urban areas and also, in cities like London, reducing reliance on the Tube and other public transport. So I should think that there are better targets for savings than the bike 2 work scheme, unless anyone has heard specific Tory plans?

Eau Rouge

Headhuunter wrote:

unless anyone has heard specific Tory plans?

Have the Tories had *any* specific plans since Cameron took charge!

Oh, I should be on the Now Show with cutting satire like that, too good for you all I tell ya.

Headhuunter

roundthebend wrote:

mudcovered wrote:

roundthebend wrote:

* too much admin - needs Inland Revenue approval (HMRC I guess)
* leasing arrangement is quite complicated for employees
* savings are small - because it's quite normal to be limited to cycle stores where prices aren't as keen so you can probably get a better deal shopping around
* when company ran the Home Computing Initiative only 150 out of 8500 employees took up the scheme
* expected take up for C2W would be lower than that

WTF? :shock:

Admin. 2 bits of paperwork (lease agreeement and final invoice) bit of setup in payroll system to do the salary sacrifice and potentially raising a PO for the bike.

Leasing is complicated. I bet the lease agreement is less complicated than your employment contract and they expect you to understand that.

Savings are small. If somebody can find the bike shop (online or otherwise) which offers 40%-50& below list on all bikes. I'd like a link or the address.

If they ran the home computer initiative claiming admin overheads is taking the wee-wee. The admin for C2W is the same!

They pay reduced employers NI on your salary for the duration of the salary sacrifice. Unless your admin department is seriously overpaid that should cover the admin costs.

There are loads of salary sacrifice things they probably already deal with and IIRC the rules for deducting them from the salary are standardised so its almost certainly clicking a button in the payroll software.

Mike

Indeed. From the reply I got I guess that the HR department were going to try and administer the scheme entirely themselves whereas I think it might be more common to use a scheme provider such as Cyclescheme?

I received an email from Cyclescheme explaining what was required of my company and it does look fairly straight forward.

I'm forward the info to the HR department with the hope that I can prompt them to at least look into it again.

I was under the impression that if an employer uses a mioddle man like Cyclescheme to administer things then overall it saves the employer money. They pay less in employer NI contributions, so rather than costing the employer the overall result is that as a salary sacrifice scheme it makes you cheaper. Cyclescheme makes its money from bike retailers.

Mike400

Same story here. Public service.

Scheme was to be introduced in 2008.
Then "Early 2009"
then "Def before March 2009"
then "Ready for bikeweek (june) 2009"
Then "end of 2009, probably November"

Then they rolled out a pilot scheme, for 10 (afaik) people. Idea was to let that run for a couple of months (i.e. two pay-packets) then get HMRC in to check its all above board, then roll out service wide, in January 2010.......

guess I should email the guys "running" the scheme to see what the story is now, saying as April is next week!

roundthebend

Headhuunter wrote:

I was under the impression that if an employer uses a mioddle man like Cyclescheme to administer things then overall it saves the employer money. They pay less in employer NI contributions, so rather than costing the employer the overall result is that as a salary sacrifice scheme it makes you cheaper. Cyclescheme makes its money from bike retailers.

That's certainly the impression I get too.
The chap I previously spoke to has since left the company so perhaps I can persuade his replacement to look into it.

Headhuunter

roundthebend wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

I was under the impression that if an employer uses a mioddle man like Cyclescheme to administer things then overall it saves the employer money. They pay less in employer NI contributions, so rather than costing the employer the overall result is that as a salary sacrifice scheme it makes you cheaper. Cyclescheme makes its money from bike retailers.

That's certainly the impression I get too.
The chap I previously spoke to has since left the company so perhaps I can persuade his replacement to look into it.

Sounds like the previous chap was a bit of a lazy @rse who simply couldn't be bothered and tried to justify this with a load of twaddle. I mean, fancy saying that the savings don't warrant the effort and that if you shop aruond you can match those savings! That statement alone shows that he hasn't even bothered to look into it properly.