Greipel's gripe

wicked

Do we think he will still be at columbia newxt year? :roll:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/greipel ... -exclusion

Learn your place andre! Very much behind Cav in the pecking order.

frenchfighter

He should have ridden MSR IMO. No idea if he had the legs for the distance, but not including a top in-form sprinter is ridiculous. At the very least, why can't they both be included then be big boys and ride for whoever is in the mix towards the end.

FJS

Even though it's questionable whether he would have made it over the Manie and Cipressa (ending up in the Farrar/Eisel group much more likely), he has a point that Columbia clearly put internal team spirit at risk by insisting on putting Cav nr 1, given the poor shape he's in. I guess what they're most worried about is not whether Greipel will still be there next year, but whether Cav will be.

Pross

Surely Cav earned the right to be their number one as defending champion? Following that Rogers was their best bet, Greipel would have struggled over the hills.

pedro118118

I think he has a point.

Cav had no chance of winning and it seemed a little short-sighted giving him a lap of honour, rather than give a chance to a sprinter, who has been in good form and winning all year.

Seems as though the two simply won't co-exist in the long term, especially given Cav's recent comments about there being no place for him in the Cav Express train, cos he loses wheels etc...

Bottom line is, he'll have to make do with the Vuelta and Giro and he's far too good to play second fiddle - he deserves his chance.

andyp

Far too good? He's a decent sprinter but he's not in the top echelon with the likes of Cavendish, Petacchi, Freire, Hushovd et al.

He would never have made it over the Poggio with the front group.

Pross

^^^+1

He struggled over the "hills" in the TdU. If he starts any kind of "back me or I'm off" tactics I suspect it would be the latter. Don't get me wrong, he's a seriously quick sprinter on a flat stage with a flat finish. The Worlds could be interesting if the course is as flat as everyone reckons - especially if he does decide he's leaving HTC.

wicked

Pross wrote:

^^^+1

He struggled over the "hills" in the TdU. If he starts any kind of "back me or I'm off" tactics I suspect it would be the latter. Don't get me wrong, he's a seriously quick sprinter on a flat stage with a flat finish. The Worlds could be interesting if the course is as flat as everyone reckons - especially if he does decide he's leaving HTC.

+1
If he gets too big for his boots he can disappear at milram provided of course there is a milram next year!

FJS

Blimey, some patriotically inspired biases here?
If someone has been 'struggling over the hills' this year it has been Cavendish. Both were very unlikely contenders and neither should normally have been made undisputed nr 1 of the team. With the choices the management made they clearly showed where they want to go with the team in the future...

Pross

Not being patriotic, to my mind Rogers needed more support than he got but I still think that Cav in his current "cuddly" form climbs better than Greipel.

Kléber

Cavendish got plenty of TV coverage and interviews before and after the race. There's an argument that both of them should have been there perhaps but like many, I think Greipel would have struggled up the hills. His riding in Paris-Nice wasn't great, perhaps the team took one look at his wattages and said "nein"?

Yes he might have bagged some early season races but to think he could go head to head with Bennati, Boonen, Petacchi and Freire, well I'm not sure. :?

He should know that whining in the media isn't going to help his cause.

The Prodigy

I would have liked to see Greipel in the race, just to see how he handled it.

RichN95.

How is this Radioshack's fault? In every other thread they're blame, so why not this one?


Seriously though, HTC is Cav's team and it will stay that way as long as Stapleton remains deeply in love with him. And Cav doesn't think much of Greipel, so they're never going to ride together.

Andre has to make a choice. Have the best train in the business and win lots, but never in the big races, or go it alone with a lesser team.

I'd like to see him do the latter. Maybe one of the French teams would like to take a chance and build at least half a team around him. They don't win too much and he's a man they could use. Cofidis seem to be the most welcoming to foreigners.

Oh, and if Farrar (for example) couldn't get in the front group for MSR, there's no way Greipel could.

SpaceJunk

wicked wrote:

Pross wrote:

^^^+1

He struggled over the "hills" in the TdU. If he starts any kind of "back me or I'm off" tactics I suspect it would be the latter. Don't get me wrong, he's a seriously quick sprinter on a flat stage with a flat finish. The Worlds could be interesting if the course is as flat as everyone reckons - especially if he does decide he's leaving HTC.

+1
If he gets too big for his boots he can disappear at milram provided of course there is a milram next year!

Why not. Milram seem to be winning more races than HTC these days.

pedro118118

Kléber wrote:

Cavendish got plenty of TV coverage and interviews before and after the race. There's an argument that both of them should have been there perhaps but like many, I think Greipel would have struggled up the hills. His riding in Paris-Nice wasn't great, perhaps the team took one look at his wattages and said "nein"?

Yes he might have bagged some early season races but to think he could go head to head with Bennati, Boonen, Petacchi and Freire, well I'm not sure. :?

He should know that whining in the media isn't going to help his cause.

"wattages".
From what I've read about Cav, his 'numbers' have never been anything to shout about?!

Bottom line is - he has been winning all year and Cav hasn't been.
Clearly, when both are in top form Cav is quicker, but that simply isn't the case at the moment.

Cav's clearly the apple of Bob's eye and to be honest, I can understand his frustration.

PauloBets

Cavendish should definitely move to Sky when he can. It's better for his profile in the UK and takes some pressure off Bradley given what Dave Brailsford has stated the aim of the Sky team is. Although I think the Tour of California would be great, you can see Cavendish is not really happy, he wants to be in the Giro. This might lead to a move to a UK based team for him. Griple shouldn't complain as Cavendish has earned the right to be the leader of that team and have it revolve around him

Kléber

If Cavendish moved to Sky then Wiggins would get the hump.

Cav needs a four man lead out, plus two helpers (eg Grabsch and Kirchen last summer) to peg a break earlier in the day, which leaves only two vacant spots on the team.

A GC candidate like Wiggins needs a lot of hand-holding in the mountains, so you need three to four climbers and rouleurs on board.

But you can't go for yellow and green as both Cavendish and Wiggins need plenty of support. Arguably Cav could win without a big leadout but he's not going to move to a squad that won't support him.

csp

PauloBets wrote:

Cavendish should definitely move to Sky when he can. It's better for his profile in the UK and takes some pressure off Bradley given what Dave Brailsford has stated the aim of the Sky team is. Although I think the Tour of California would be great, you can see Cavendish is not really happy, he wants to be in the Giro. This might lead to a move to a UK based team for him. Griple shouldn't complain as Cavendish has earned the right to be the leader of that team and have it revolve around him

Bradley Wiggins on why he left Columbia at the end of 2008:
"It was starting to become the Cav show a bit. I also felt the vibe in the team was very artificial. I always liked JV[Garmin-Slipstream manager Jonathan Vaughter]'s relaxed friendship, and I've had a good relationship with him over the years, since he was a rider.

"I might have had the same year if I'd stayed at Columbia, but they were definitely building a team around Cav for the sprints. They've got so many riders who can win bike races, you almost just become a number there. I wanted to blend into a team of similar riders with similar attitudes, and this team gives you the freedom to be who you want to be.

"We're much more of a family, without shouting about it. People want life contracts here. It's just like a close knit friendship, without going on about it. It's a relaxed atmosphere, and there's no pressure to get results, which suits me."

pedro118118

csp wrote:

PauloBets wrote:

Cavendish should definitely move to Sky when he can. It's better for his profile in the UK and takes some pressure off Bradley given what Dave Brailsford has stated the aim of the Sky team is. Although I think the Tour of California would be great, you can see Cavendish is not really happy, he wants to be in the Giro. This might lead to a move to a UK based team for him. Griple shouldn't complain as Cavendish has earned the right to be the leader of that team and have it revolve around him

Bradley Wiggins on why he left Columbia at the end of 2008:
"It was starting to become the Cav show a bit. I also felt the vibe in the team was very artificial. I always liked JV[Garmin-Slipstream manager Jonathan Vaughter]'s relaxed friendship, and I've had a good relationship with him over the years, since he was a rider.

"I might have had the same year if I'd stayed at Columbia, but they were definitely building a team around Cav for the sprints. They've got so many riders who can win bike races, you almost just become a number there. I wanted to blend into a team of similar riders with similar attitudes, and this team gives you the freedom to be who you want to be.

"We're much more of a family, without shouting about it. People want life contracts here. It's just like a close knit friendship, without going on about it. It's a relaxed atmosphere, and there's no pressure to get results, which suits me."

"people want life contracts here" - classic!
"no pressure to get results" - as a highly paid, elite cyclist, it's nice work if you can get it?!

Pross

pedro118118 wrote:

Kléber wrote:

Cavendish got plenty of TV coverage and interviews before and after the race. There's an argument that both of them should have been there perhaps but like many, I think Greipel would have struggled up the hills. His riding in Paris-Nice wasn't great, perhaps the team took one look at his wattages and said "nein"?

Yes he might have bagged some early season races but to think he could go head to head with Bennati, Boonen, Petacchi and Freire, well I'm not sure. :?

He should know that whining in the media isn't going to help his cause.

"wattages".
From what I've read about Cav, his 'numbers' have never been anything to shout about?!

Bottom line is - he has been winning all year and Cav hasn't been.
Clearly, when both are in top form Cav is quicker, but that simply isn't the case at the moment.

Cav's clearly the apple of Bob's eye and to be honest, I can understand his frustration.

Cav has only just started racing again! It's hard to win races from your sick bed

pedro118118

Pross wrote:

pedro118118 wrote:

Kléber wrote:

Cavendish got plenty of TV coverage and interviews before and after the race. There's an argument that both of them should have been there perhaps but like many, I think Greipel would have struggled up the hills. His riding in Paris-Nice wasn't great, perhaps the team took one look at his wattages and said "nein"?

Yes he might have bagged some early season races but to think he could go head to head with Bennati, Boonen, Petacchi and Freire, well I'm not sure. :?

He should know that whining in the media isn't going to help his cause.

"wattages".
From what I've read about Cav, his 'numbers' have never been anything to shout about?!

Bottom line is - he has been winning all year and Cav hasn't been.
Clearly, when both are in top form Cav is quicker, but that simply isn't the case at the moment.

Cav's clearly the apple of Bob's eye and to be honest, I can understand his frustration.

Cav has only just started racing again! It's hard to win races from your sick bed

My point exactly - so why are they pinning the team's hopes at MSR on a guy who's only just started riding his bike again following illness? Crazy. Make the best of what you have in the squad.

Pross

My point exactly - so why are they pinning the team's hopes at MSR on a guy who's only just started riding his bike again following illness? Crazy. Make the best of what you have in the squad.

I'm not - I said Rogers should have had more support. I just don't think expending effort on a sprinter who was unlikely to get over the Poggio in the lead group even if he is at peak form is good use of the team resources.

Kléber

pedro118118 wrote:

My point exactly - so why are they pinning the team's hopes at MSR on a guy who's only just started riding his bike again following illness? Crazy. Make the best of what you have in the squad.

As I said above, Cavendish's inclusion got the team plenty of media coverage, a lot more than they'd get if he went for a training ride. He also needed the training miles and the racing experience.

pedro118118

Did Rogers represent a better option? Not sure he had much chance of winning either given he doesn't have any kind of kick, even out of a select group. This means you would be pinning your hopes on an attack on the last hill and solo victory. Rogers has done nothing in the last few years to suggest he's capable of that.

I think HTC got it wrong - they should've included Greipel in the knowledge that if it came to a sprint and he was in contact he would stand a very good chance. If he gets dropped on the capi or someone gets a jump on the bunch, then so be it, but that's the risk.

stagehopper

To be fair to Cavendish he hardly had the luckiest of races on Saturday.

"I did not feel too bad to start off," Cavendish told La Gazzetta dello Sport.

"At the bottom of Turchino, like the other day, I had the spokes ripped out of my wheel. I had to do a wheel change, I chased, right in the tunnel I got back to the peloton and there was a crash in the tunnel. On the Mànie, I suffered to the top and then I crashed on the descent, so then I went from the front the back, and had to chase again."

Not sure he'd have been in there at the finish even with the smoothest of races given his lack of early season miles, but clearly HTC wanted to respect his right to defend his title and thought that there was an outside chance he could do something.

Pross

Rogers was in there at the finish. I'm sure the HTC management know their riders better than anyone and had they thought Greipel had any chance of winning they would have put him in the team.

fastercyclist

Griepel has a good point here, he is wrong to take it to the media however. He should just leave the team, like EBH did. There is no sense in staying with HTC for anyone with the talent.

Pross wrote:

Rogers was in there at the finish. I'm sure the HTC management know their riders better than anyone and had they thought Greipel had any chance of winning they would have put him in the team.

I disagree, we often see poor managerial decisions everywhere. Claiming HTC management are motivated to have riders other riders winning over Cavendish is suspect given their actions. From the actions of riders there seems to be something very wrong with HTC's management priorities.

stagehopper

Has Greipel ever shown the capacity to get up the hills of the MSR? Cavendish targetted the race last year, losing weight over the winter so he had a chance of hanging on in the climbs. Is there any evidence of Greipel doing the same?

andyp

No. Greipel gets dropped going over motorway bridges so it's risible to suggest he'd still be in the hunt at the end of MSR.

msw

Whoever has the better chance of winning, isn't it all different because Cavendish is the defending champion? Unless he's totally unable to ride, surely it would be unusually cold-blooded to tell him he can't defend the first major Classic win of his career? Also, in a way, disrespectful to the race.

pedro118118

msw wrote:

Whoever has the better chance of winning, isn't it all different because Cavendish is the defending champion? Unless he's totally unable to ride, surely it would be unusually cold-blooded to tell him he can't defend the first major Classic win of his career? Also, in a way, disrespectful to the race.

Depends on your point of view I suppose. Of course, I can undestand Cav's desire to parade around Milan with the No1pinned to his jersey - that's only natural. Bottom line is though, he wasn't fit enough to challenge. He knew it. HTC knew it. And Greipel knew it.

I would have thought that Bob S would've taken note of the likes of EBH, Thomas Lovqvist, Kirchen, Hincapie rationale for jumping ship.