pedestrians please look.

sturmey

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8577612.stm

Don't wish to speculate on the circumstances of this but I was reminded only yesterday that pedestrians can be our biggest 'enemy'.
I was filtering up the nearside of a line of stationary cars and a woman and young child stepped out from the nearside pavement.She hadn't even looked or contemplated the possibility of me (a cyclist) being there.
Had to shout like f**k to get her to react.Fortunately she did.
She could have bent my forks!

prj45

sturmey wrote:

She could have bent my forks!

Sigh, here we go again.

Just how fast were you travelling?

spen666

Think you are indulging in victim blaming here.

the police have gone beyond an intial investigation and are now investigating cyclist for manslaughter.

That would suggest police are minded that blame lies with cyclist.

If accident was caused by pedestrian not looking they would not be arresting cyclist for manslaughter.

sturmey

Sigh, here we go again.

Just how fast were you travelling?

At a safe responsible speed ,hence the avoidance of a collision.

Sounds like you're tarring us all with the same brush!

Sigh...

prj45

sturmey wrote:

At a safe responsible speed

...that would've caused your forks to bend had you'd struck the lady or child?

I'm afraid we have to get used to the fact that peds often don't look when they cross the road, even more so when they see a line of standing traffic with tempting gaps in it.

sturmey

...that would've caused your forks to bend had you'd struck the lady or child?

I was using a bit of poetic licence, dontcha know?

I realise there are dangerous cyclists out there.i am not one of them.

Sad fact is that if this woman had looked(she was a tourist so may be a reason why she didn't) she would probably be alive today.

prj45

sturmey wrote:

Sad fact is that if this woman had looked(she was a tourist so may be a reason why she didn't) she would probably be alive today.

You see, I'm all for strict liability.

If a car strikes a cyclist then the car/lorry driver has to go quite a long way to prove that they couldn't have avoided the strike, same for any car on ped action as well as cyclist on ped action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_Bq1vxCUvo

mapleflot

Just saw this report on CeeFax.
Major condolences to the victim,
but I don't see reports of cyclists getting killed in the national press,
and, of course, nor do I often see pedestrian deaths due to motor vehicles reported unless its a hit and run. (The cyclist stopped at this accident).
Its a pity the `rare' context is not described in the news reports since, in effect, this is the reason its in the news in the first place. Sadly the anti-cycling brigade will be on this accident for years.

amnezia

sturmey wrote:

Sad fact is that if this woman had looked(she was a tourist so may be a reason why she didn't) she would probably be alive today.

Really?? I take it you have a detailed account of the incident that the rest of us have missed then?

For all you know the cyclist could have jumped a red and hit her, then would it still be her fault for not looking?

shouldbeinbed

mapleflot wrote:

Just saw this report on CeeFax.
Major condolences to the victim,
but I don't see reports of cyclists getting killed in the national press,
and, of course, nor do I often see pedestrian deaths due to motor vehicles reported unless its a hit and run. (The cyclist stopped at this accident).
Its a pity the `rare' context is not described in the news reports since, in effect, this is the reason its in the news in the first place. Sadly the anti-cycling brigade will be on this accident for years.

it is on LiT's thread on this one. theres a link to a camden paper article where a police officer does say its a rare event.

sturmey

Really?? I take it you have a detailed account of the incident that the rest of us have missed then?

Er, no actually

Why would I need to?

Your comments imply that the woman COULD have looked but stepped out regardless.

Which is nonsense. Unless she felt she had a point to prove.
And a death wish.

There is only one reason why she stepped out.
She DIDN'T SEE HIM.
Not saying it's her fault. I never implied that. But those are the facts.

Think about what you're saying before jumping to conclusions.

DonDaddyD

There are a lot of threads on this.

We can't say that the Ped or the cyclist was in the wrong.

In the OP's situation, I'm of the thought that the women with a small child should have been looking left and right before crossing the road. Not least of which to show good practice to the child so that it does the same when crossing the road.

I personally think that peds and cyclists both have a responsibility for ensuring safety.

Tooting High st, I won't filter on the right around a bend its not safe with the sheer volume of oncoming cars that may swerve around park vehicles. It means I have to contend with peds and side roads on the left but I at least have a measure of control. I'm on the brakes but save for getting off the bike walking down the hill I cannot stop for a ped that decides to step out right in front of me. In that instance, I'm not seeing it as my fault.

lost_in_thought

I have to say, I spend a lot of time in Europe walking around cities with my boss, and despite the fact that I am there a lot, I constantly don't look the right way before crossing, fortunately my boss is there to grab me by the arm and save me from ending up under the wheels of a bus/car/etc.

It's an easy mistake to make.

I'm not saying this is what happened in this particular incident, but it's a possibility. We should be extra-super-vigilant in touristy areas.

Aidy

shouldbeinbed wrote:

mapleflot wrote:

Just saw this report on CeeFax.
Major condolences to the victim,
but I don't see reports of cyclists getting killed in the national press,
and, of course, nor do I often see pedestrian deaths due to motor vehicles reported unless its a hit and run. (The cyclist stopped at this accident).
Its a pity the `rare' context is not described in the news reports since, in effect, this is the reason its in the news in the first place. Sadly the anti-cycling brigade will be on this accident for years.

it is on LiT's thread on this one. theres a link to a camden paper article where a police officer does say its a rare event.

My post?

mapleflot

lost_in_thought wrote:

I have to say, I spend a lot of time in Europe walking around cities with my boss, and despite the fact that I am there a lot, I constantly don't look the right way before crossing, fortunately my boss is there to grab me by the arm and save me from ending up under the wheels of a bus/car/etc.

It's an easy mistake to make.

I'm not saying this is what happened in this particular incident, but it's a possibility. We should be extra-super-vigilant in touristy areas.

No kidding. Confession: A few years ago I almost pushed my son's buggy into the path of a woman on a bike while crossing some sort of `contra-flow' bike lane in Amsterdam. Just lucky she stopped in time.

shouldbeinbed

Aidy wrote:

shouldbeinbed wrote:

mapleflot wrote:

Just saw this report on CeeFax.
Major condolences to the victim,
but I don't see reports of cyclists getting killed in the national press,
and, of course, nor do I often see pedestrian deaths due to motor vehicles reported unless its a hit and run. (The cyclist stopped at this accident).
Its a pity the `rare' context is not described in the news reports since, in effect, this is the reason its in the news in the first place. Sadly the anti-cycling brigade will be on this accident for years.

it is on LiT's thread on this one. theres a link to a camden paper article where a police officer does say its a rare event.

My post?

ahem. but yes your post within that thread.

EDIT & I even got that bit wrong, I just remembered having quoted a bit of her post in mine.

I didn't go back and look specifically who'd put it up before posting, apologies for not giving you due credit.

lost_in_thought

shouldbeinbed wrote:

Aidy wrote:

shouldbeinbed wrote:

mapleflot wrote:

Just saw this report on CeeFax.
Major condolences to the victim,
but I don't see reports of cyclists getting killed in the national press,
and, of course, nor do I often see pedestrian deaths due to motor vehicles reported unless its a hit and run. (The cyclist stopped at this accident).
Its a pity the `rare' context is not described in the news reports since, in effect, this is the reason its in the news in the first place. Sadly the anti-cycling brigade will be on this accident for years.

it is on LiT's thread on this one. theres a link to a camden paper article where a police officer does say its a rare event.

My post?

ahem. but yes your post within that thread.

I didn't go back and look specifically who'd put it up before posting, apologies for not giving you due credit.

It's not even my thread... OP is 'LondonTrailRadar'... :P

shouldbeinbed

yep spotted that I must have been editing as you were quoting.

I hang my head and will go and write out 100 times 'I must check my sources first' :oops:

Oddjob62

I go though that junctions quite often. Not the kind where a ped can just "jump" out in front of you imo.

Aidy

shouldbeinbed wrote:

I didn't go back and look specifically who'd put it up before posting, apologies for not giving you due credit.

Nah, I'm not bothered about that
I just wanted people to be able to find what you were referring to.

lost_in_thought

shouldbeinbed wrote:

yep spotted that I must have been editing as you were quoting.

I hang my head and will go and write out 100 times 'I must check my sources first' :oops:

Yeah! Get it right! You idiot! Ha!

(I'm joking. It's OK.)

Aidy

Oddjob62 wrote:

I go though that junctions quite often. Not the kind where a ped can just "jump" out in front of you imo.

I have had pedestrians run into the side of me, or actually jump in front of me (as in, inches from my front wheel), giving me zero, or severely limited reaction time. I don't see that any road/junction can stop this happening.

I'm not saying that's what's happened here, because, well, I don't know. Either/both could be at fault, pretty tragic all around

Jay dubbleU

sturmey wrote:

Really?? I take it you have a detailed account of the incident that the rest of us have missed then?

Er, no actually

Why would I need to?

Your comments imply that the woman COULD have looked but stepped out regardless.

Which is nonsense. Unless she felt she had a point to prove.
And a death wish.

There is only one reason why she stepped out.
She DIDN'T SEE HIM.
Not saying it's her fault. I never implied that. But those are the facts.

Think about what you're saying before jumping to conclusions.

Didn't see him or didn't look - in my experience nine times out of ten pedestrians don't look - presumably because the can't hear anything coming

Of course the other issue here is that she was Danish and may not have been used to our traffic system

The Chingford Skinhead

As I have said on the other thread. The BBC has not reported any cyclist/HGV deaths for the last two years. A very odd news editorial policy if you ask me.

Sorry for the pedestrian and their family. Like others I support the idea of strict liability - and that includes for cyclists hitting peds (and that despite being taken out by a pedestrian last year that seriously messed up my shoulder). .