Cwmcarn, broken trails :-(

Anonymous

Just visited Cwmcarn the other week and was disappointed the state of the Cwmcarn trail at the moment, there is aleast five spots which it's unrideable due to high and big rocks and very deep tree roots, forcing you off bike to walk over these bad spots.

Towards the end last year, it was getting bad and thought these could have be repaired over winter ready for the new year, sadly it's worse than last year, not looking good for this summer if no maintenance is done, shame this once excellent trail is spoiled by this.

Splottboy

Maybe, just maybe...It's because they haven't put aside enough cash for trail repairs/a trail crew. Big oversight if this is the case!

Perhaps it was Dafydd Davies leaving the Forestry Comm that has led to this?
If he was still around, perhaps it may not be in such a state? I don't know, but the same thing happened in the North after he went.

The Marin and CYB went pearshaped, but the Forestry Comm, or Enterprise as they are sometimes called, seemed to realise the financial losses to the local community. Then, they got their act together and the new trails, centre and Penmachno sprang up.

Apparently, there's some BIG money being thrown at Mtb centres soon.
Watch this space...

rhyko7

theres nothing at Cwmcarn where you have to get off and Walk! perhaps it will benefit your riding to learn how to ride these sections.
however yes it is getting rough because its ridden so much, there is some maintenance and small changes planned, but nothing major.

stumpyjon

I know what you mean, it's definitely got more difficult to ride in places over the couple of years I've been riding there. Maintenance is definitely and issue for the FC and others. It's (relatively) easy to get funding for new trails, get a contractor in for a couple of months and build. Getting money and resources for maintenance is way more difficult, it's even difficult to get volunteers interrested in repair work.

amt27

rode Cwmcarn for the first time a couple of weeks ago, thought the roots were just there to test the riders,

I think the FC have far too much control over our sport, as someone who lives in a FC controlled area, where in some respects the FC have more control than the local and county council, its strange how a Quango set up 80 years ago has not been challenged,

in the case of my local trail, the FC rely on a group of volunteers to set up and maintain the trails, then publicise it as a leisure facility provided by the FC and charge £3 to park, most of the jobs go to those outside of the area, it's a very strange set up indeed,

Splottboy

FC were tasked to make money a few years ago, apparently, as they have huge areas doing nothing but growing trees. These are farmed about every 25 yrs or so I think, so lots of whittling and tea drinking to do between culls !

They tend to rely on volunteers/part timers/ex-students looking for some cash money.

They are very willing but maybe not the best for the job?

But the trails in Wales much more expansive than 15yrs ago when I moved here.

welshkev

poiuy1 wrote:

Just visited Cwmcarn the other week and was disappointed the state of the Cwmcarn trail at the moment, there is aleast five spots which it's unrideable due to high and big rocks and very deep tree roots, forcing you off bike to walk over these bad spots.

Towards the end last year, it was getting bad and thought these could have be repaired over winter ready for the new year, sadly it's worse than last year, not looking good for this summer if no maintenance is done, shame this once excellent trail is spoiled by this.

i agree with rhyko that there's nothing there unridable! i can see your point that it has become a little ragged around the edges in places but this just adds to the fun. i started riding before there was trail centres and we just used to ride down what was put in front of us. maybe you should practice some more at cwmcarn and get used to the riding, or maybe i'm just spoiled living only 10 minutes away and really i'm the best rider in the world cos i don't find it that technical

just go as fast as you can and hold on to the edge. it'll give you a bigger smile in the long run, and if you don't test your limits how do you know how good you really are?

Anonymous

Like I said before about 5 spots is unrideable but most def 2 of them will forced you off the bike and that include smart alec's of 'rhyko7' and 'welshkev' :roll:

I would be happy to join the volunteers to help out repairing the trails back to good, but Cwmcarn need to close the trails for a weekend and get a good group of volunteers and reward them free cuppa and cakes in the cafe for their efforts, it's just poor managerment running the place, if nothing is done, I dread what the trails will be like at the end of summer.

stumpyjon

The trouble is that many centres are set up with a big cash injection, fanfare and contractors to build the trails. Little thought is given to the need to maintain the trails afterwards. No money is allocated and it's very difficult to get volunteers to just do trail repairs. I'd say Gisburn might be the first in a new trail centre developement model where the volunteers were in place before the big cash injection. This meant that we have been available to carry out much needed repairs to some of the contractor built bits that collapsed. We're now back to trail building which is what we liek doing although I'm already thinking in terms of a day to repair and tweak stuff we've built.

Thewaylander

To be honest its's fine it was cleaned up mid last year and will be cleaned up again this year.

Most of the heavily rooted and rocky sections are meant to be that way and have ridden over all of them, But not all in one ride

If it was made easier i would be severely disapointed since they droped the wall ride and ladder drops to due to moaning... and there are only a few challenging sections left on the trail these days, and the rocky rooty bits are them.

My words to you are MTFU or ride up and down the road...

jonnyc2420

[quote=".

My words to you are MTFU or ride up and down the road...[/quote]

I agree - and god help us if we start to think about riding in the 'real' non-groomed / natural / not man made / rufty tufty outdoors.....

whatever next.........

(and i can speak from experience having ridden there for the first time on sunday - fun but if anything it could do with being a bit more challenging)

Anonymous

''My words to you are MTFU or ride up and down the road'' :roll: ......ok jonnyc2420 and Thewaylander, I will withdraw my voluntary offer of repairing the trails if they ask for some help, not helping the likes of you, according you experts, Cwmcarn is perfect and doesnt need any maintenance work, enjoy.

I will ride at Afan more now, more fun over there with mixture of everything and flowing trails.

rhyko7

poiuy1 wrote:

Like I said before about 5 spots is unrideable but most def 2 of them will forced you off the bike and that include smart alec's of 'rhyko7' and 'welshkev' :roll:

I would be happy to join the volunteers to help out repairing the trails back to good, but Cwmcarn need to close the trails for a weekend and get a good group of volunteers and reward them free cuppa and cakes in the cafe for their efforts, it's just poor managerment running the place, if nothing is done, I dread what the trails will be like at the end of summer.

nah not being a smart alec, just telling the truth, i rode it sunday, i didnt have to get off the bike at all.other than to fit between the wooden posts that are there to keep motor bikes out, i really have no idea which bit must challenge you so much you have to get off the bike, actually there are two small technical climbs i can think of where some people get off and walk, but next time if you stop and wait i bet a lot of people behind you manage to ride it. i dont think its in too bad a state, i rode the HT sunday and wasnt too bad (bit of arm pump), its no problem on the FS tho.
like i said there is some maintenance planned and the FC have a budget for that kind of thing anyway.

jonnyc2420

dude - if you repair them to what you feel is an acceptable standard you probably would not be missed on a repair day anyway......btw - was it you that did the carpark area - that surface was waaaaay gnarly........ :P :P :P

welshkev

poiuy1 wrote:

Like I said before about 5 spots is unrideable but most def 2 of them will forced you off the bike and that include smart alec's of 'rhyko7' and 'welshkev' :roll:

I would be happy to join the volunteers to help out repairing the trails back to good, but Cwmcarn need to close the trails for a weekend and get a good group of volunteers and reward them free cuppa and cakes in the cafe for their efforts, it's just poor managerment running the place, if nothing is done, I dread what the trails will be like at the end of summer.

not being a smart alec just telling the truth, the only bits i get off the bike for are bits of the climb, but that's cos i'm a bit of a fat barsteward, i rode cwmcarn last week and it was fine!

not trying to slag you off or say you're a crap rider, like i said, maybe you should ride it more to get used to it?

paulscutt

Not wanting to steal the thread or stop a good argument or anything but...

Has anyone ridden Cwmcarn this past week? How are the trails with all the cr*p weather we've had this week?? Its still pouring down now just up the M4 near Bridgend - how do the trails fair up with lots of rain? (not bothered if i get wet and muddy but dont wanna turn up and be told the trail is washed away!) I'm planning on going down tomorrow AM...

cheers boys!

Thewaylander

Paul,

Not been up but Cwm loally holds together the best in the wet.

poiuy1 and seriously i have been on this trail for years, is my nice easy local blast. it's a technical trail not broken.. Seriously just because you can not ride a section does not meaan the section is bad, it means you need to learn how to ride it, I walk up sections often if i'm tired on the day or just not riding well, It doesn't worry me one bit its good to be challenged.

Anonymous

'thewaylander' can I ride with you at Cwmcarn so you can teach me how to ride a bike :roll: I like to follow you and see if you can ride the whole trail without stopping including (my words) the unrideable spots so I can learn and improve my riding from experts like you.

'rhyko7' just saw your youtube videos, I think they are very good, can you record a whole loop at Cwmcarn of you riding without stopping and ride over the (my words) unrideable spots, is that possbile that you can add on your youtube and show us as it's about approx 45 mins riding on that loop?

Have a good weekend

welshkev

poiuy1 wrote:

'thewaylander' can I ride with you at Cwmcarn so you can teach me how to ride a bike :roll: I like to follow you and see if you can ride the whole trail without stopping including (my words) the unrideable spots so I can learn and improve my riding from experts like you.

'rhyko7' just saw your youtube videos, I think they are very good, can you record a whole loop at Cwmcarn of you riding without stopping and ride over the (my words) unrideable spots, is that possbile that you can add on your youtube and show us as it's about approx 45 mins riding on that loop?

Have a good weekend

dude, you have a real bad attitude. i'm glad you're going to afan more now. it means we don't have to put up with your whining at cwmcarn. myself, waylander and rhyko are all locals who love to ride there, like i said, yes, it is a bit ragged but that's the fun of it, if everything was safe and easy we'd all be knitting or something!

hope you have a good weekend pushing over the hard unrideable bits!!!! :shock:

Anonymous

oh dear welshkev, my first post was polite enough and even offer to help out repairing the trails if they need help but some have got cheeky with saying that I need to learn to ride a bike which it was an insult and I need to MTFU.

I am willing to eat humble pie if I fail my riding's levels against you over the unrideable spots and I will be able to learn from you how to do it and proved that I am wrong that the 2 bad spots can be ridden over without stopping.

No bad attitude here, I will buy you a coffee if I am wrong.

welshkev

poiuy1 wrote:

oh dear welshkev, my first post was polite enough and even offer to help out repairing the trails if they need help but some have got cheeky with saying that I need to learn to ride a bike which it was an insult and I need to MTFU.

I am willing to eat humble pie if I fail my riding's levels against you over the unrideable spots and I will be able to learn from you how to do it and proved that I am wrong that the 2 bad spots can be ridden over without stopping.

No bad attitude here, I will buy you a coffee if I am wrong.

don't do coffee, make it a welsh cake and a coke and you got a deal

Splottboy

Bara Brith and a Brains Dark...that's gotta be more like it, Butty?!

I've done voluntary work on quite a few N.Wales trail centres. Bloody hard work, but great, honest, sweaty, rewarding work.

Trail crews don't get the support, recognition or assistance they need. Without them, the trails would be in total turmoil.

rhyko7

poiuy1 wrote:

'thewaylander' can I ride with you at Cwmcarn so you can teach me how to ride a bike :roll: I like to follow you and see if you can ride the whole trail without stopping including (my words) the unrideable spots so I can learn and improve my riding from experts like you.

'rhyko7' just saw your youtube videos, I think they are very good, can you record a whole loop at Cwmcarn of you riding without stopping and ride over the (my words) unrideable spots, is that possbile that you can add on your youtube and show us as it's about approx 45 mins riding on that loop?

Have a good weekend

Cheers for video comment, however i really don’t care enough to take a camera up to cwmcarn xc just to prove its all ride able. Although i did consider it for a brief moment before realising how anal it would be lol.
in the wet on a HT some of the rooty climbs are very tricky- wouldn’t disagree with that (its a fair bit easier on full sus i find) sorry if this is condescending but the way to get over the rooty climb sections is to hold back until your a few metres away then sprint over them at speed so you have more momentum and don’t have to worry about traction so much, this is how I cope with them anyway, honestly I ride cwmcarn all the time as do welsh kev and waylander, you learn how to ride things like this after a while and I have no doubt that both of them can ride all the trail without having to get off due to the trail being too technical, especially if its not wet.
Sorry but your gonna have to buy kev a welshcake.

And back to the issue of trail maintenance, if a bunch of us got together and piled mud over the roots and rocks it would only last a few weeks before the trail would be back to how it was before the maintenance. This is due to how many people ride the trail on a daily basis.

p.s I cant get around cwmcarn in 45 minutes, I wish I could but im not that fast, normally takes me around an hour


Next time you have to get off and walk up a section, get off your bike, get your breathe back and have another go at it, you may surprise yourself.-good luck

Thewaylander

What rhyko said.

I was teasing a bit with teh MTFU thing but alot of our trails have had tough sections removed through peope complaining its to hard or dangerous and its not fun when nothing challenges.

Sometimes i make it up the climb sometimes i don't depends how tired i am it isnt easy but it si doable so it makes a great technical loop.

simplesimoncardiff

Seriously guys, there's nothing un-ride-able at Cwmcarn. Yes it's a tough trail if you take it fast... But it can all be done with out getting off. And I ride it on an XC race bike with 90mm travel forks and about 60psi in the tires.

Northwind

One person's unrideable is another person's fun. The first time I went to Drumlanrig I thought one part was worn out and unrideable, the second time I just rode it

Also, there's the dreaded cry of TRAIL SANITISATION that goes up whenever you fix a knackered bit of trail. All of a sudden the FC are the enemies of fun and they're turning all the trails into smooth gravel paths because they're terrified of lawyers and they're just ruining everything and it'd be better if they didn't exist even though that'd mean there'd be no trails at all. It's ****ing annoying frankly, we once redirected a corner on Pie Run at Glentress because so many people complained it was "unrideable" and "dangerous" and "bad design" and before I even got home that day someone was complaining on a forum that we'd "ruined it" and "the FC won't be happy til all the roots are gone"

FC basically can't win. If they build a trail it's not good enough, if they don't then WHY ARE THERE NO NEW TRAILS, if they maintain a trail it's sanitisation and if they don't it's unrideable.

welshkev

Northwind wrote:

One person's unrideable is another person's fun. The first time I went to Drumlanrig I thought one part was worn out and unrideable, the second time I just rode it

Also, there's the dreaded cry of TRAIL SANITISATION that goes up whenever you fix a knackered bit of trail. All of a sudden the FC are the enemies of fun and they're turning all the trails into smooth gravel paths because they're terrified of lawyers and they're just ruining everything and it'd be better if they didn't exist even though that'd mean there'd be no trails at all. It's ****ing annoying frankly, we once redirected a corner on Pie Run at Glentress because so many people complained it was "unrideable" and "dangerous" and "bad design" and before I even got home that day someone was complaining on a forum that we'd "ruined it" and "the FC won't be happy til all the roots are gone"

FC basically can't win. If they build a trail it's not good enough, if they don't then WHY ARE THERE NO NEW TRAILS, if they maintain a trail it's sanitisation and if they don't it's unrideable.

i agree totally. like i said in my earlier post, when i started riding there were no trail centres and coed y brenin opened when i was about 17/18 and i went there then, but considering i started riding when i was 14 that's quite a long time! too many people are only used to trail centre riding where everything is controlled to an extent, some people would benefit actually going out and riding some natural trails to experience just how good they get it at trail centres then they might not complain so much

Thewaylander

Northwind wrote:

One person's unrideable is another person's fun. The first time I went to Drumlanrig I thought one part was worn out and unrideable, the second time I just rode it

Also, there's the dreaded cry of TRAIL SANITISATION that goes up whenever you fix a knackered bit of trail. All of a sudden the FC are the enemies of fun and they're turning all the trails into smooth gravel paths because they're terrified of lawyers and they're just ruining everything and it'd be better if they didn't exist even though that'd mean there'd be no trails at all. It's ****ing annoying frankly, we once redirected a corner on Pie Run at Glentress because so many people complained it was "unrideable" and "dangerous" and "bad design" and before I even got home that day someone was complaining on a forum that we'd "ruined it" and "the FC won't be happy til all the roots are gone"

FC basically can't win. If they build a trail it's not good enough, if they don't then WHY ARE THERE NO NEW TRAILS, if they maintain a trail it's sanitisation and if they don't it's unrideable.

Ok you can say that but take south Wales local trails.

Cwm due to people having accidents through there own idiocy we have lost,
Ladder drops,
Wall ride.

Afan, somoene crashed on the raised section
Raised section is widened and has to little peaks taken out to make it easier.

These are case of trail sanitsation mate due to moaning. Cleaning up a bit of trails with roots/rocks which has been that way for the last three years is not.

stumpyjon

The trouble is it's very difficult to repair a trail without sanitising it. What may look like a bit of gnarly single track may well be weeks away from becoming a bog. You can pitch sections of trail so the rocks stay proud but it's very time consuming. That said at gisburn if there are any roots to had we tray and dig down around them so they are above the surface of the finished trail. We've been known to divert the trail a few yards to try and incoporate roots :twisted:

Anonymous

Ok rhyko7 and thewaylander, it might be wise not to say that 'I need to learn to ride a bike' and 'MTFU' comments when I only comment the current state of Cwmcarn atm, I have given you guys the opportunity to show me the broken spots is can be ridden over, but you have turned it down, I accept it and take it that you cant do it.

Actions speaks louder than words

Back to the main topic, it's nothing extreme repairing the two bad spots, it just need to remove about 3/4 big rocks and cut away the deep tree roots or fill the tree roots gaps with dirt/gravel to to make it nice flowing trail, job done and nothing major.

Thewaylander

Poiuy we were teasing you.

But fine we will arrange this summer, will bing a nice group of people who can ride the trail for you two. Because you simple can't accept a bunch of local might be able to ride the technical climb at Cwm better than yourself.

tThe whole trail was serviced at the end of last year as i said before and needs no work for the most. There is a section before the last fire track climb that looks a little cut up, but it isn't as it is actually perfectly ridable(Depending how nackered you are at the time).

Seriously go back and try again it's fine and technically challenging, This is so rare today with over tailored trails please don't push to kill off my local trail for your visits.