Is steel the holy grail of frame materials?

CiB

I haven't read through all of this thread so may be missing something obvious.

My BMC is a mix of alloy & carbon. Seat tube & most of the downtube is alloy, which is bonded to a carbon top tube & steerer. Chains stays are alloy, the bits [go on remind me] from there to the seat post are carbon.

Now that I've taken the rattling lights off it is by a country mile the smoothest most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. It just is. Being carbon it may snap in two next week or dissolve into flakes, who knows? But for riding it's a bit of joy.

Anyway. Carry on.

rolf_f

All non steel bikes have a bit of BSO in them. A real bike shouldn't cost a mad amount of money and it should be possible to leave it in a shed for 30 years and dig it out again, clean it up and regrease it and it should still work fine.

Doesn't stop me looking forward to my carbon bike though......

bigpikle

Enjoyed this thread a LOT...

4 of us went riding this morning - 45 miles in the country. Strangely between us were alu, CF (me), Ti and steel framed bikes.

What really surprised me was that all 4 of us had the same amount of fun, traveled the same distance at the same average speed and took it in turns to out-climb, sprint, descend and generally outperform each other at different times, with no pattern emerging related to frame material :shock:

I still really wanted to ride the ti and steel frames though

beelzebomb

So why aren't all frames made out of stainless steel to stop problems with rust? My cutlery doesn't rust!

I've just bought a Cove Handjob frame and am wondering how best to waxoyl/rustproof it without adding 2 lbs in weight!

supersonic

Standard stainless steels just don't have the strength, but some exotic and expensive blends do, ie Reynolds 953.

beelzebomb

ok, anyone got good ideas on rust proofing the inside of a steel frame? There's alot of corners/angles and little small diameter tubes (in the rear triangle) that must be impossible to access, they also have what appear to be drain holes as well - what about blocking these up? If they're blocked, no water gets in so nothing needs draining, right?
My car has waxoyl to protect it, but I can't see in my head any way of doing this for the inside of a bike even though I believe Cove suggest this..

itboffin

Image my surprise when I stripper the old steel commuter to reveal not only a 1972 date stamp but also the name of the builder "Dave Quinn"



also matches my kitchen floor tiles

tailwindhome

You work on your bike in the kitchen, and take photos as evidence?

Not like being married?

rjsterry

beelzebomb wrote:

ok, anyone got good ideas on rust proofing the inside of a steel frame? There's alot of corners/angles and little small diameter tubes (in the rear triangle) that must be impossible to access, they also have what appear to be drain holes as well - what about blocking these up? If they're blocked, no water gets in so nothing needs draining, right?
My car has waxoyl to protect it, but I can't see in my head any way of doing this for the inside of a bike even though I believe Cove suggest this..

I believe you have to strip the frame down, bung up the openings and pour it in before turning the frame round to let it slosh round and coat everything. I think i read that somewhere, but may have imagined it, so I'd seek a second opinion before you start.

snailracer

I once got lost in the Colorado desert on my CroMo-steel mountain bike. I crossed several miles of giant boulders by climbing up each boulder with the bike on my back and throwing it off the other side, retrieved and repeated, to the point where there was almost no paint on parts of it.

That was about 15 years ago, the bike is now my daily all-weather commuter (still unpainted) and the frame is still sound.

cedargreen

snailracer wrote:

I once got lost in the Colorado desert on my CroMo-steel mountain bike. I crossed several miles of giant boulders by climbing up each boulder with the bike on my back and throwing it off the other side, retrieved and repeated, to the point where there was almost no paint on parts of it.

That was about 15 years ago, the bike is now my daily all-weather commuter (still unpainted) and the frame is still sound.

I've always thought that risk of rusting in steel frames was overstated. Visit any bikepark and you'll see lots of ancient steel bikes still in daily use.

Provided you look after it, a good steel frame should last many years.

I went for steel as I wanted a custom build- partly to get the right size frame, partly to be able to specify components, and partly for aesthetics.

On my budget, this would have been impossible in any other material; I think this is why steel is still preferred by many people.

snellgrove

symo wrote:

Of course the ultimate material is currently being developed in a lab somewhere

Unobtanium

snailracer

cedargreen wrote:

snailracer wrote:

I once got lost in the Colorado desert on my CroMo-steel mountain bike. I crossed several miles of giant boulders by climbing up each boulder with the bike on my back and throwing it off the other side, retrieved and repeated, to the point where there was almost no paint on parts of it.

That was about 15 years ago, the bike is now my daily all-weather commuter (still unpainted) and the frame is still sound.

I've always thought that risk of rusting in steel frames was overstated. Visit any bikepark and you'll see lots of ancient steel bikes still in daily use.

Provided you look after it, a good steel frame should last many years...

Steel frames can be very rust resistant, or not, depending on the type of steel, primer, paint, etc.

Aluminium corrodes quite readily when exposed to salt water. CF fails when exposed to certain chemicals e.g. hydraulic fluid. Even titanium corrodes when exposed to alkaline cleaning materials, or in contact with cadmium plated fasteners (now uncommon). Titanium & aluminium can also be junked during assembly welding by contamination with air (still quite common, air).

Must get the bike gold plated

Aapje

rjsterry wrote:

beelzebomb wrote:

ok, anyone got good ideas on rust proofing the inside of a steel frame? There's alot of corners/angles and little small diameter tubes (in the rear triangle) that must be impossible to access, they also have what appear to be drain holes as well - what about blocking these up? If they're blocked, no water gets in so nothing needs draining, right?
My car has waxoyl to protect it, but I can't see in my head any way of doing this for the inside of a bike even though I believe Cove suggest this..

I believe you have to strip the frame down, bung up the openings and pour it in before turning the frame round to let it slosh round and coat everything. I think i read that somewhere, but may have imagined it, so I'd seek a second opinion before you start.

Waxoyl is too thick to properly distribute. JP Weigle Frame Saver is made for bike frames. Basically you plug all opening but one, spray in the stuff while pointing the opening in a safe direction and averting your eyes (or wear safety glasses). Then you plug the opening you sprayed into and start turning the frame in all directions.

Drain holes should not be blocked up! Water can enter the bike through the headset and seat post. Water vapour in air can also easily condensate, so unless you are sure that your frame is airtight, you want the water to be able to drain/evaporate.

jimmypippa

snailracer wrote:

I once got lost in the Colorado desert on my CroMo-steel mountain bike. I crossed several miles of giant boulders by climbing up each boulder with the bike on my back and throwing it off the other side, retrieved and repeated, to the point where there was almost no paint on parts of it.

That was about 15 years ago, the bike is now my daily all-weather commuter (still unpainted) and the frame is still sound.

I guess your idea of "dry" is somewhat different to mine...

Or low humidity.

msw

Is the idea that "a steel frame will last you forever" also helped by the fact that it's just been around longer? There simply aren't many 30-year-old carbon fibre, aluminium or titanium frames knocking around, but in 20 years' time there may be.

Also, surely the steel frames that have survived tend to be the minority that are well made: there must be millions of steel BSOs from the 60s, 70s and 80s that haven't survived because they just weren't very good.

supersonic

Steel {and titanium} have one advantage over aluminium and that is a fatigue limit.

beelzebomb

Ah, that sounds like a good call, Aapje!

many thanks, will investigate..

beelzebomb

Not easy to find, but found the stuff at 18 Bikes Ltd, cos of carriage, total cost was £22 (guess it's pretty dangerous stuff in normal post).

Well worth it though when your frame costs well over £400!

gtvlusso

Love steel frames - will continue to ride them day in and day out.

Wish I could afford Ti.....More for the look than the materials science of it.

Carbon frames have all been great, alloy frames, bit stiff and brutal - but light and pretty good.

woodford2barbican

msw wrote:

Is the idea that "a steel frame will last you forever" also helped by the fact that it's just been around longer? There simply aren't many 30-year-old carbon fibre, aluminium or titanium frames knocking around, but in 20 years' time there may be.

Also, surely the steel frames that have survived tend to be the minority that are well made: there must be millions of steel BSOs from the 60s, 70s and 80s that haven't survived because they just weren't very good.

Maybe. But in 20 or 30 years time the carbon and ally frame will still look dreadful.