100% Ghetto Tubeless

hoodlum-z

I've decided that using Stan's fluid in a ghetto tubeless set-up is like Swampy going to Wilderness Ways for his tent instead of making his own out of a tarpaulin.

Point being, if you are going to go ghetto then it has to be all the way. That's why I'm using PVA sealant watered down with some ground rubber for micro particles. Before you laugh, I've just found a patent for tyre sealant with a similar method: European Patent Application EP1270188.

There's enough already been said about using BMX tubes or Gorilla tape, but if your tyres are slack and non UST then the 20" inner tubes help tighten things up and seal brilliantly. In fact, I had 4 attempts and inflated every time. It's handy to lay the wheel on your bucket of soapy water whilst doing so and I used a track pump.

Another good tip is to cut the tube whilst its off the rim if it doesn't have a seem to use as a guideline. You can use the creases as a guide instead, but once on the rim the crease disappears. Then leave the final trimming until you are confident the install is complete.

The inner tubes cost me £1.81 each from Wilkinson's and are made by Kenda, although it says Wilkinson on the box. Cheap tubes are obviously thick rubber, but this seems to have a nice cushioning effect to aid sealing.

I bought a pack of 4 valve remover/dust caps for £1.49, but a handy tip is to look in your car if it doesn't have a spare wheel because my Honda has a valve remover with the sealant kit in the boot.

Although I've just gone tubeless today, the bike rode perfect and only time will tell if the fluid does its job. The PVA is only a tenner for 5 litres and that's for Evo-Bond. I just had some left over from a building job, but 1 litre will last ages.

Hope this helps anybody wanting to go tubeless on the cheap. Don't blame me if it doesn't work though, it's still under development :evil:

joshtp

so let me get this right? pva glue with ground up rubber in it works as a sealent? im in..... now off t wilko's...

ride_whenever

and?

plenty of people use things other than bike sealants, liquid latex works quite well apparently.

RichMTB

and?

And the OP has found a way of making ghetto tubeless work for and thought he would share it with the group.

I'm considering ghetto tubeless myself as I just can't get the Stan's rim strips to seal properly, as I already have the sealant and UST tyres it will cost about a fiver to give it a try

s-worksenduro

Sounds like a really good idea!! Even if the PVA doesn't work, you could get some sealant from CRC for £5.99 here.

How did you cut the tubes? I mean, what did they look like? Did you take photos? A photo tutorial would be awesome.

Do please keep us up to date with how well it works and thanks for sharing!!

hoodlum-z

The idea of this thread was to point out things that others have missed out. My advice is to watch as many videos on YouTube and other forums to familiarise yourself with all the different ways of doing things. There is loads of good stuff out there so I don't really want to go down the route of a tutorial. However, I might take some photos tomorrow.

The tyres were both up this morning and hadn't lost any air.

It's dead easy to cut the tubes, just cut them opposite the valve and all the way round. Try to get them as even as possible, but they don't need to be perfect. I still haven't done the final trimming yet as I'm worried that if I cut right back to the rim I won't get the tyre back on next time I want to top up the fluid without taking the valve out.

The consistency of the fluid is something that I'm experimenting with. It doesn't want to be too watery or too thick for obvious reasons. As the BMX tubes are already well proven the world over in a ghetto set-up, it's the PVA that I'm not sure about, although the patent that I found has boosted my confidence in it. Also, from what I can gather, PVA is a latex.

By the way, I'm running Specialized Fast Trak 2.0 with Aramid bead on Mavic 117 rims.

Good luck, lads, and let me know how you get on.

*AL*

RichMTB wrote:

I just can't get the Stan's rim strips to seal properly

I found the Specialized Blue rim tape does the job, and it cheaper too

hoodlum-z

Most of the so-called 'special' rim tape is just a standard tape that's already on the market. Strapping tape, for instance, can be used to seal rims. It's the clear stuff with the fibres in to strengthen it.

Fair enough, you are paying for peace of mind with the branded stuff, but with a little bit of detective work, Hercule, you can often save a bit of money.

My lass once worked at a factory that made glue for Halfords and EvoStick. The contents were exactly the same - only the label and price were different.

alexh1981

I`m clueless, whats the benefits of going tubeless?

hoodlum-z

alexh1981 wrote:

I`m clueless, whats the benefits of going tubeless?

1. No pinch flats.
2. You can run lower pressures because of 1.
3. More traction because of 2.
4. No punctures if you are using a fluid such as Stan's or a home-made version.
5. Lower rotating weight, in most cases.
6. Think that's about it, really.

BorisSpencer

What are you using for the 'ground rubber'?
Have you made your own from an old tyre and a sander, or am I missing something.

alexh1981

hoodlum-z wrote:

alexh1981 wrote:

I`m clueless, whats the benefits of going tubeless?

1. No pinch flats.
2. You can run lower pressures because of 1.
3. More traction because of 2.
4. No punctures if you are using a fluid such as Stan's or a home-made version.
5. Lower rotating weight, in most cases.
6. Think that's about it, really.

Cheers for that, so the fluid inside stays fluid? until the tyre wall gets breached?

Just getting my head around it and quite like the idea, will investigate further.

ride_whenever

http://www.mtbbritain.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=8276

this is a rather good thread that has several options for budget latex sealants that you can use in place of stans.

alexh1981 - you missed much lower rolling resistance at the same pressure, no friction between tube and tyre. Really really noticeable IMO, well particularly for me, i'm of the size where I cannot really run the tyres much lower without them rolling off the rim in either ghetto or tubed setups, but the reduced rolling resistance was a delightful bonus!

hoodlum-z

www.softsandrubber.com

This website sells soft rubber granules and a harder polymer version. Don't know which one will work the best when added to the fluid, but I'm sure they are similar to the crystals that you get in Stan's. They say add about 20% granules to 80% liquid.

I could be wrong about the crystals in Stan's but it's just what I heard someone call them on a video tutorial that I watched.

Haven't got round to doing it yet, but I'm going to find an old tyre and shave the rubber off with a surform plane. However, I'm worried that the granules will be too big so I might add some finer grains by grinding rubber down on the grinder.

It's all about experimenting and if it fails keep on tweaking until you get it right!

ropey

hoodlum-z wrote:

alexh1981 wrote:

I`m clueless, whats the benefits of going tubeless?

1. No pinch flats.
2. You can run lower pressures because of 1.
3. More traction because of 2.
4. No punctures if you are using a fluid such as Stan's or a home-made version.
5. Lower rotating weight, in most cases.
6. Think that's about it, really.

I'm clueless too ,like the idea of lower pressure alright but what are the disadvantages of a tubeless setup?

hoodlum-z

The disadvantages of a tubeless set-up are:
1. Chance of the tyre rolling off if running standard rims and tyres.
2. Burping fluid and/or air out of the side wall. UST shouldn't do this.
3. Losing pressure due to 2.
4. Messing on topping up the fluid every now and then.
5. UST tyres tend to be heavier than a standard tyre.
6. UST wheels and rims are more expensive (so keep it ghetto!).
That's about all I can think of for now.

You can always carry a spare tube in case of an emergency. I think most people would agree that tubeless is the way to go. My tyres are still holding up fine, not lost any pressure at all. To be honest, I couldn't believe how easy it was - thought that I'd have a right chew on with the inflation side of things but it wasn't so.