Petrol Price - 1st April
Comments
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We have the stick with the tax and we have a bit of a carrot with the C2W scheme.
I think we need more carrot.
The worst thing about tax on fuel is that it is in the main regressive, people in rural communities need to travel and often do not have the choice to use a bike, public transport etc. And in addition to this they can't afford the newest low mpg cars due to the area that they live in. But then you could say they choose to live there.
Hey ho my thoughts anyway0 -
Simon - not a WUM here, just curious - do you drive at all?0
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Homer J wrote:Pokerface wrote:You're an ass.
Not everyone has the luxury of being able to cycle to work or live within an easy community distance.
Petrol price increases don't annoy me. People like you do. Not just an April's fool, but one for the entire year!
+1
+2
this weeks jobs are in Bristol and Newcastle (next week Norwich & Carlise)... I live in Leeds, suggest to me how I get there for 9AM on site without using my car,
oh and by the way being self employed I take a hit on any price hike0 -
softlad wrote:
+3
I live in a rural area where the major employer is, by necessity, located miles from any decent sized population centre. 30 miles each way for me each day. Fortunately we car-pool it to spread the cost (lots of people do this), but it doesn't help to have people who do live in built up areas crowing as if I choose to do that trip just out of badness."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
where's aspinall gone? he's not fighting his corner very well, is he?0
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dg74 wrote:in case it has escaped the OP's attention that public transport in the UK is basically a disgrace - we're so far behind Europe that the whole thing needs a massive re-think and starting over. Maybe then people will leave their cars and take to alternative means but when it costs nearly £13 a week (one way though so that's £26 a week there and back) in bus fares to get to work and my car gets me there for a few quid less then until that mentality is addressed by the leaders of our country and prices for public transport comes down - the car is king.
Also for a lot of people the places that they work are now no longer in cities but tend to be in industrial estates in the middle of nowhere with again, absolutely terrible transport links to them but far easier to get to by car than bike.
Agreed!
Public transport is rubbish and more expensive than most comparable car journeys. There must be viable alternatives available to make people use their cars less.0 -
Interesting piece here on said price increase
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/5844438/brown-faces-the-horror-of-the-petrol-pumps.thtml"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
we pay £1.20 a litre in Aberdeenshire for petrol and diesel and it hasnt stopped people driving, as much as I dont agree with the price of petrol considering other countries pay as little as 48p a litre, yes its a tax but its not going to change so we will just have to dry them and get on with it.Pace RC405
Pace RC303
Specialized A1 Rockhopper Pro Disc
Bits A Bike SingleSpeed mountain bike
Single speed Reynolds steel framed road bike
1992 Marin rocky Ridge
1990 Trek 8000
1991 Kona Fire Mountain0 -
Aspinall must be busy dancing around that everything single thing he buys will be going up in price0
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disgruntledgoat wrote:softlad wrote:
+3
I live in a rural area where the major employer is, by necessity, located miles from any decent sized population centre. 30 miles each way for me each day. Fortunately we car-pool it to spread the cost (lots of people do this), but it doesn't help to have people who do live in built up areas crowing as if I choose to do that trip just out of badness.
I find that in the countryside where people need their cars there's a lower traffic density anyway and vehicles don't cause much of an issue.
It's the lazy fcukers in cities, that live and work within a rather short distance that could be done by other means, and cause loads of congestion that are the problem. I also find that most of them drive like w@nkers too. I'm learning to drive in Manchester, and most of it is 30mph areas, I'm at the speed limit and idiots shoot past, or drive right up behind me.
Too many people do use cars when there are better methods. So I reckon something needs doing about the city driving, but I do not know what.0 -
Like all tax, the money has to come from somewhere and I'm generally in favour of a tax that acts as at least some deterrent on people jumping in their cars at the slightest provocation. Yes, I have to pay a little more when I buy transported goods, but if it didn't come from there I'd only have to pay for the services some other how. And at the same time as it makes goods more expensive to transport, it also makes locally produced goods more attractive to buy (so maybe supermarkets look to start buying locally produced produce instead of shipping it in from wherever it is in the world has the lowest wages and quality standards this week). Anything which incentivises people who transport goods in bulk to look at their supply chain and see how to make it shorter and more efficient surely has to be a good thing.
I wince every time I have to fill up my car: so I use my bike whenever I can. And then I look to see who I can share a car with. Isn't that the sort of behaviour we want to encourage?0 -
There is little point in arguing amonst ourselves.
The main culprit is the Government, and I mean any party :evil:
They want clean air and they want to raise revenue.
Solution:- raise car taxes. Reduces pollution by those adopting other methods and raises revenue from those who don't, simples.
Except, they haven't thought it through, as usual :roll:
Most people commute by car because they don't have a choice.
The trains are full, the buses are stuck in the same traffic as the cars and both are as expensive as driving :evil:
Housing prices mean that poorer paid can't afford to live near work.
Cycling could be an alternative but it is chicken and the egg as most people consider the roads to be unsafe, but if everyone used bikes it would be safe. Barring RLJ'ers crashing into each other.
Public transport in this country is a joke and people will not get out of their cars until this is resolved. Simples.
Actually, the whole infrastructure is a joke. The Country is broken physically and financially.
During my ramblings a thought came to me. :shock:
Why don't we do away with cities?
Spread the work around thousands of small towns where the workers actually live, and shop, and play. Transport is dramatically cut.
Nah, ridiculous nonsense....................None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
I'm currently looking for a new place to live - closer to work so that I don't have to drive every day. Why? Because it costs me a small fortune to get to work every day.
If where I worked had facilities for showing/changing - I would ride my bike. But they don't so I don't.
I am single, have no dependents or obligations and rent -so I can move fairly easily. What about everyone else that is tied to a place of residence? How are they to pick and move 15 miles when they get a new job? Not exactly practical - is it?
Even if I cycled to work - I would still have to drive to most of my races. Make that ALL of my races!0 -
Cressers wrote:I'm a non-driver and petrol taxes annoy the hell out of me as well. We all end up paying for increased transport costs. How dare the state impose itself by tax in a transaction between two other parties?!
The fuel tax protesters should have pushed harder back in 2000 rather than relaxing their grip and letting the govt reorganise.
+ 1 Just about to add exactly what you have said, it isn't just about the Family saloon, everything has to be transported, even your bike to the shop and parts, so the whole lot goes up.0 -
Sorry! Was at lunch
Yes - My orginal post was quite provocative and could have been somewhat more rational, less insensitive - This is the result of months of being sh*t on by commuting motorists and to tarnish them all with the same brush could be more constructive.
However, I still stand by the fact that those who cry foul and disagree with taxation rarely come up with a solution themselves.
On a wider level once again...what happens when petrol isn't just expensive because of taxation? It will hit really hard then!
While there is still a window of opportunity to try and at least remedy some driver's habits for the better we must try - in this case with taxation.
Regardless of which groups are affected either righteously or unfairly, my opinion is inconsequential -The price will happen and I don't see a lot being done by motorists or motoring lobby groups to try and plan for it.
So for people who have children and need ferrying about
for those who are not able bodied
older people
rural residents
those who work miles away in remote industrial business parks
and so on...
price rises will happen and not as the result of tax so what can be done about it?What wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!0 -
never mind the increases in tax just know wait till the next goverment gets in and sees the poor motorist as a cash cow (again) there will be increases on fuel and road taxes so me thinks i will have to cycle/commute to work 3-4 times a week rather than pay for those "BANKERS" of any color and inclination0
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I go to the London area a lot from here:
Flight £48 plus 10 litres of fuel to the airport (£12), parking (£16), taxi to desination (£30)
Total price: £96
Train £98 mainline plus local train £22
Total price: £120
Car 90litres of fuel £108
So not much in it pricewise, if I plan ahead.
BUT, if I need to go at short notice and, as soon as I take a passenger, or a lot of luggage, or my bike, there is no contest. No wonder the M6 was such a nightmare on Sunday! It is congestion that puts me off driving, not the price of fuel.
(and, yes, I have omitted the running costs of the car, but I pay them anyway, whether it is parked outside my house or running around with me in it)0 -
In May we are moving offices and I will be able to walk to work for the first time in years.
I currently do 20 miles each way, so the petrol savings are going to be huge.
The office we are moving to is a bit of a dump, but I can live with it seeing as my petrol bill for the year will be halved.
However, I know that I am one of the lucky ones.0 -
pneumatic wrote:I go to the London area a lot from here:
Flight £48 plus 10 litres of fuel to the airport (£12), parking (£16), taxi to desination (£30)
Total price: £96
Train £98 mainline plus local train £22
Total price: £120
Car 90litres of fuel £108
So not much in it pricewise, if I plan ahead.
BUT, if I need to go at short notice and, as soon as I take a passenger, or a lot of luggage, or my bike, there is no contest. No wonder the M6 was such a nightmare on Sunday! It is congestion that puts me off driving, not the price of fuel.
(and, yes, I have omitted the running costs of the car, but I pay them anyway, whether it is parked outside my house or running around with me in it)
Agreed!
We just had friends up to our house in Newcastle. They came up from Essex and Birmingham respectively.
On pricing up costs to get here from Essex (this was 6 weeks before they came) the price on the train was £235 return. Flight from Stanstead return was £23.50 with easyjet. She doesn't drive.
Price from Birmingham to Newcastle return was £76.00 return. Not too bad but still a con.
Two years ago I travelled from Barcelona to Paris and paid less than one hundred pounds. The trains were lovely and clean and spacious, on time, had food and other amenities.
UK transport costs far too much to become a viable alternative.0 -
pneumatic wrote:I go to the London area a lot from here:
Flight £48 plus 10 litres of fuel to the airport (£12), parking (£16), taxi to desination (£30)
Total price: £96
Train £98 mainline plus local train £22
Total price: £120
Car 90litres of fuel £108
So not much in it pricewise, if I plan ahead.
BUT, if I need to go at short notice and, as soon as I take a passenger, or a lot of luggage, or my bike, there is no contest. No wonder the M6 was such a nightmare on Sunday! It is congestion that puts me off driving, not the price of fuel.
(and, yes, I have omitted the running costs of the car, but I pay them anyway, whether it is parked outside my house or running around with me in it)
You make a very good point that the car is usually the cheapest option - If you turn up to a train station on the day to travel it's frankly horrific and leaves people with no option just to drive.
It's the long-term aspect that needs to be addressed...people using boradband to work at home, journeys under 10 miles are ideal for walking or cycling, car sharing, subsidised public transport are all good carrots and mean people can save money where they are able to take up one of these options.
Also, local schools being at a good standard so children can get to them without the need for a car as they chose to go to one away from their house as well as a good supervised bus serviuce to take them there.
I can't see car companies and lobbying groups standing for such sensible suggestions though.
What it boils down to is people using the right tool for the right job - Walking, Cycling, Public Transport and Driving.
Currently the tools are being used in an efficient, unsustainable way and long-term this will be catastrophic.What wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!0 -
I drive, my wife drives and to be honest, whilst not happy about prices going up (of anything) its really the way things are going. The government need to raise taxes, why? To solve the mess we are all in.
Driving a car to work and back every day for a 100 miles or more its just crazy. I know a large number of people that do it and if anyone thinks its sustainable, well, they should get ready for what will come in the future.
Living in rural area won't be sustainable either, unless you are prepared to grow your own food and create your energy.x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
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Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra0 -
A lot of the problem with the long term solutions to the forthcoming petrol/energy crises Simon is the length of time to implement them in comparison to the average tenure of a government.
You find the same thing in the workplace when looking at the payback on a project in comparison to how long a senior manager hangs around for.0 -
I agree with you to some extent Simon but you sure have a smooth way of getting your point across.
Unfortunately modern day life is not sustainable as we all have central heating, TV's and other household items that burn more than they should. I blame engineers for being modern day alchemists (yes I'm an engineer). It's a sad fact that if it wasn't for someone like me, that invented the combine harvester, 75% of us would still be working on farms planting and picking crops. Sadly engineers have made all of these wonderful resource sapping things and now we're all suffering (forbidden fruits of the modern age perhaps).
But the government has stuffed us right up as they've killed industry in this country. So rather than retrain I've chosen to commute to somewhere where this is actually some work and pay the penalty for it. I realise it's not sustainable but I wan't to keep killing the earth with my engineering marvels so continue commuting, which incidentally is cheaper than public transport (well done government!).
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Escargot wrote:I agree with you to some extent Simon but you sure have a smooth way of getting your point across.
Unfortunately modern day life is not sustainable as we all have central heating, TV's and other household items that burn more than they should. I blame engineers for being modern day alchemists (yes I'm an engineer). It's a sad fact that if it wasn't for someone like me, that invented the combine harvester, 75% of us would still be working on farms planting and picking crops. Sadly engineers have made all of these wonderful resource sapping things and now we're all suffering (forbidden fruits of the modern age perhaps).
But the government has stuffed us right up as they've killed industry in this country. So rather than retrain I've chosen to commute to somewhere where this is actually some work and pay the penalty for it. I realise it's not sustainable but I wan't to keep killing the earth with my engineering marvels so continue commuting, which incidentally is cheaper than public transport (well done government!).
In fact, I have great faith that engineering will help us out of it.
Sadly it also needs legislation and long-term government which has been correctly pointed out, not a solution in the current short-term government thinking.
Hearing a '10 year plan' shoudl send most people running for coverWhat wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!0 -
Always worth getting the Daily Mash perspective on it:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/soci ... 003162560/0 -
funnily enough probably 1,000s of cyclists - myself included, also drive vehicles, mines a 4x4.it's comments like this towards 'them' that make 'them' perceive all cyclists as the idiot they see weaving in and out of traffic, running red etc.simonaspinall wrote:I hope not - They get what they deserve.
and btw who delivered your bike to the shop? did they ride it there?0 -
brin wrote:
funnily enough probably 1,000s of cyclists - myself included, also drive vehicles, mines a 4x4.it's comments like this towards 'them' that make 'them' perceive all cyclists as the idiot they see weaving in and out of traffic, running red etc.simonaspinall wrote:I hope not - They get what they deserve.
and btw who delivered your bike to the shop? did they ride it there?
No - It was taken there by a van/lorry.
Trade traffic should be assisted with tax breaks as mentioned in that post.
How well do you think trade transport will deal with a rise in the oil price thanks to rising demand from developing countries and our own appetite?
Then it won't be a flexible solution - The fixed cost of oil before taxation will be high.
There has to be a move away from petrol led transport for individuals to move towards communal transport and self-propelled methods, however many many people resist this. For whatever reason and however unfair it is deemed to be, this is not sustainable and your 4x4 will only ever get more expensive to fuel.What wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!0 -
So basically, anything that affects you/you use should be given an exemption?0
