Tour of Flanders

andyp

Dave_1 wrote:

Andyp,
There are quite a lot of good races gone to the wall. Paris Brussels, which was a cross border classic that was a perfect race. GP De Nations, GP Midi Libre, ...you followed the sport as long as me. I won't include Classique des Alpes, though it was a cracker of an idea. E3 is good pundit wise, but it is 3rd cats and juniors on your palmares for me and anyone from the 80s, 90s....you and I will only have heard of it in the past few years surely...buried deep in the results section prior to this years PTP. Still, times change...am maybe left behind?

Remember when results were found out either through luck, i.e. one of the broadsheets had them, or for waiting until Thursday and getting Cycling Weekly? The E3 was an important race then but probably got a line or two on CW after the Wobbly Wheelers 25.

Times have changed now, thankfully, and we can get results within minutes of the finish or, if we're lucky, find a free stream on the web and see the race ourselves and that means races like E3 come to the attention of the keen fan.

The point remains that the E3 has always been an important warm up race for Flanders as it's held a week before and covers many of the same roads as Flanders. If you look at the list of past winners then I think it ranks a bit higher than a chipper with the likes of Van Looy, De Vlaeminck, Raas, Museuuw and Boonen on there.

andyp

greasedscotsman wrote:

What about Hincapie? Maybe it's "his" year? 4th at GW? And what about Hushovd, 6th at MSR?

It's always Hincapie's year this year. He's running out of time.

RichN95.

greasedscotsman wrote:

What about Hincapie? Maybe it's "his" year? 4th at GW? And what about Hushovd, 6th at MSR?

No, it's Hincapie's year at Roubaix. It's Leif Hoste's year at the Ronde.

afx237vi

mididoctors wrote:

I think this new calender of packing it into weekends is a step up

the end profile of E3 is a better analog to the ronde as prep..IMO and i suspect flecha's Boonen's and Cancellara's

Yeah, the E3 definitely had a boost in profile this year, especially after a corker of a race, but G-W seems to have suffered as a result, no? It had a much weaker field than E3. Also, I'm not really sure that the extra hills and extra 50 km really made that much of a difference, other than maybe putting a bunch of riders off taking part. McEwen tweeted that most of the Flandrian races are turning into mini RVVs... maybe it takes something away from the main event.

The Scheldeprijs is now the new GW, I guess.

mididoctors

Dave_1 wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

Andyp,
There are quite a lot of good races gone to the wall. Paris Brussels, which was a cross border classic that was a perfect race. GP De Nations, GP Midi Libre, ...you followed the sport as long as me. I won't include Classique des Alpes, though it was a cracker of an idea. E3 is good pundit wise, but it is 3rd cats and juniors on your palmares for me and anyone from the 80s, 90s....you and I will only have heard of it in the past few years surely...buried deep in the results section prior to this years PTP. Still, times change...am maybe left behind?

I think this new calender of packing it into weekends is a step up

the end profile of E3 is a better analog to the ronde as prep..IMO and i suspect flecha's Boonen's and Cancellara's

fair enough. I just wanted to flag up some races that died and mention I'd not hear anything much at all of the E 3 in my cycling following life. The World TT Champs is basically the GP de Nations rebranded...Hinault, Kelly , Mottet, Rominger all took the GP Nations very seriously...it was considered a TT classic and was killed off by the World Cup in its final years. The Super Prestige Pernod finished in 1988-a great benchmark it was. Even now I don't really know who is number one on points over the season exactly and am left to guess. At least in the 1980s and 90 you knew who was up there on a monthly basis. SK best for 4 years straight. Anyways, we don't really need a World TT champs when there are so many events on that week and most riders are burned out. GP Nations was perfect falling a week or two before Lombardy

i think international tv is going to change it all

I suspect a lot of the races have/will fallen away because they had no airtime or were the wrong place in the calender as prep for those races that do...

take your points about the SPP vs the world cup.. the end season does seem to hinge on the worlds as the vuelta is a bit of an anti climax and it all seems to fizzel out

the world cup never quite did it... but then again I remember arguments that points and UCI ranking was ruining racing because people raced for 10th for there bankable status etc..

losing the midi was harsh i thought... but it was a bit or a dauphine duplicate....

I like the new calender and density of coverage for the spring classics flandarian thing..

its a different era for sure.. I'm still optimistic

andyp

afx237vi wrote:

Yeah, the E3 definitely had a boost in profile this year, especially after a corker of a race, but G-W seems to have suffered as a result, no? It had a much weaker field than E3. Also, I'm not really sure that the extra hills and extra 50 km really made that much of a difference, other than maybe putting a bunch of riders off taking part. McEwen tweeted that most of the Flandrian races are turning into mini RVVs... maybe it takes something away from the main event.

The Scheldeprijs is now the new GW, I guess.

Did GW suffer? Usually the riders who ride Flanders and Roubaix to win are not present in GW, so nothing changed there. It was just more obvious that the field was weaker because we'd seen Boonen, Cancellara, Flecha and Pozzato give it full gas the day before but you still had top drawer riders like Frieire, Gilbert and (dare I say it) Hincapie in the mix at the business end of the race.

The new course was only 10-15 kms longer than the old one and they'll go up to the full 250km distance next year, hopefully reinstating the section along the coast too.

drewfromrisca

Anyone know where I can watch this in Stockholm? I'm on a trip there and I'm desperate to see it after being there last year.

greasedscotsman

drewfromrisca wrote:

Anyone know where I can watch this in Stockholm? I'm on a trip there and I'm desperate to see it after being there last year.

Err, it doesn't go through Stockholm, Tour of Flanders, there's a clue there

(sorry, couldn't resist, maybe you could go to something like cyclingfans.com, they should have links so you can watch online if it's not on TV there...)

jpembroke

greasedscotsman wrote:

And what about an outsider like Boom?

I got a tenner each way on Boom. Odds of 50-1 to win. You never know.......

mididoctors

andyp wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Yeah, the E3 definitely had a boost in profile this year, especially after a corker of a race, but G-W seems to have suffered as a result, no? It had a much weaker field than E3. Also, I'm not really sure that the extra hills and extra 50 km really made that much of a difference, other than maybe putting a bunch of riders off taking part. McEwen tweeted that most of the Flandrian races are turning into mini RVVs... maybe it takes something away from the main event.

The Scheldeprijs is now the new GW, I guess.

Did GW suffer? Usually the riders who ride Flanders and Roubaix to win are not present in GW, so nothing changed there. It was just more obvious that the field was weaker because we'd seen Boonen, Cancellara, Flecha and Pozzato give it full gas the day before but you still had top drawer riders like Frieire, Gilbert and (dare I say it) Hincapie in the mix at the business end of the race.

The new course was only 10-15 kms longer than the old one and they'll go up to the full 250km distance next year, hopefully reinstating the section along the coast too.

+1

i thought both races especially GW were great?

stefrees

off toit for the 3rd year running, staying in geraardsburgen at the grupello doing the sportive as well for the first time....cant bleedin wait

afx237vi

mididoctors wrote:

andyp wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Yeah, the E3 definitely had a boost in profile this year, especially after a corker of a race, but G-W seems to have suffered as a result, no? It had a much weaker field than E3. Also, I'm not really sure that the extra hills and extra 50 km really made that much of a difference, other than maybe putting a bunch of riders off taking part. McEwen tweeted that most of the Flandrian races are turning into mini RVVs... maybe it takes something away from the main event.

The Scheldeprijs is now the new GW, I guess.

Did GW suffer? Usually the riders who ride Flanders and Roubaix to win are not present in GW, so nothing changed there. It was just more obvious that the field was weaker because we'd seen Boonen, Cancellara, Flecha and Pozzato give it full gas the day before but you still had top drawer riders like Frieire, Gilbert and (dare I say it) Hincapie in the mix at the business end of the race.

The new course was only 10-15 kms longer than the old one and they'll go up to the full 250km distance next year, hopefully reinstating the section along the coast too.

+1

i thought both races especially GW were great?

Fair enough. I thought GW got less buildup / coverage than in past years, but I guess it was just my perception of it. Was a good race, though, I agree.

rick_chasey

Harelbeke is definitely suffering from the G-W move.

G-W has the name that Harelbeke doesn't.


It's a testamant to the selective course that the big 3 favourites for Flanders were the big players in Harelbeke, expending enoguh energy there to make G-W useless.

Eventually though, G-W is a win people want more than Harelbeke, even if Harelbeke consistently produces excellent racing - the type that only the cobbled classics can achieve.

greasedscotsman

Looks like no Pozzato then...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pozzato ... r-flanders

Michael H

Hi,

Just a quick 'thanks' to everyone who offered me some advice on this thread, on where my wife and I should watch the Tour of Flanders.

We had a great time. We watched some of the activity and soaked up the atmosphere at the start in Bruges then headed off to the Muur. As it turned out, we picked the perfect spot to watch - just where Cancellara broke away from Boonen. My wife, who is from Cancellera's home town of Bern, is convinced that it was the sight of her Bernese flag that persuaded him to make his move at that point.

After the riders passed us we walked down to Geraardsbergen to watch the end of the race on the big screen there. As Cancellara made his way home there was no shortage of Belgian guys coming over to Franziska to offer her congratulatory kisses. Unfortunately the women were not doing likewise with me.

Then it was into a bar for a celebratory beer.

The atmosphere all day - from Bruges, to the Muur, to the bar in Geraardsbergen, was fantastic and we had a great time. I look forward to returning, hopefully soon.

Thanks again for all the helpful advice - it was greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

Michael H

dave_1

this years Tour of Flanders had the highest viewing audience ever...hmm..Tom Boonen and Cancellera rode last year and and years before and it wasn't the highest viewing audience...hmm. Who else was in the race again?...

iainf72

Paris-Roubaix figures were bigger than ever and guess who wasnt there?

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

Paris-Roubaix figures were bigger than ever and guess who wasnt there?

hmmm...well given the double standards many use on here to judge great performances, I full y expect your coterie of Armstrong bashers -who appear fine with Cancellera's magic on Sunday-will be on to back you up Iain. Of course LA wouldn't be the cause of audience increases...I was so silly to assume his worldwide appeal might have helped. You going to assume the sceptical stance with FC or is it just Armstrong that gets that treatment?

iainf72

Dave_1 wrote:

hmmm...well given the double standards many use on here to judge great performances, I full y expect your coterie of Armstrong bashers -who appear fine with Cancellera's magic on Sunday-will be on to back you up Iain. Of course LA wouldn't be the cause of audience increases...I was so silly to assume his worldwide appeal might have helped. You going to assume the sceptical stance with FC or is it just Armstrong that gets that treatment?

I'm just reporting the numbers. Did Lance get more people to watch a race? Probably. However, there were big jumps in viewer numbers in Belgium and Holland as well where they know their cycling and Lance taking part in a race probably isn't that interesting for them.

And yes, I am sceptical of Fabians performances.

dougzz

iainf72 wrote:

I'm just reporting the numbers. Did Lance get more people to watch a race? Probably. However, there were big jumps in viewer numbers in Belgium and Holland as well where they know their cycling and Lance taking part in a race probably isn't that interesting for them.

And yes, I am sceptical of Fabians performances.

I think cycling is on a bit of a high, LA 's return is a talking point whether negative or positive. I think the TdF coming to London in '07 really sparked a lot of people's imagination for pro cycling, and I think it's grown in strength from there, I'm talking UK here, I have little real understanding of how it's viewed in Belgium and Holland outside of the normal clichéd remarks.

Fab's performances, yeah tragically you do wonder.

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

hmmm...well given the double standards many use on here to judge great performances, I full y expect your coterie of Armstrong bashers -who appear fine with Cancellera's magic on Sunday-will be on to back you up Iain. Of course LA wouldn't be the cause of audience increases...I was so silly to assume his worldwide appeal might have helped. You going to assume the sceptical stance with FC or is it just Armstrong that gets that treatment?

I'm just reporting the numbers. Did Lance get more people to watch a race? Probably. However, there were big jumps in viewer numbers in Belgium and Holland as well where they know their cycling and Lance taking part in a race probably isn't that interesting for them.

And yes, I am sceptical of Fabians performances.

but Iain my friend, you have a fairly long posting history on here and were once relatively sympathetic to Americans like Tyler H and Hincapie back in 2004 when we joined the forum, but you're anti-Armstrong nowadays...so I assumed you were in disagreement...

the fanboyish postings re FC last sunday came from some Armstrong bashers. The forum has two standards..one for Cancellera , another for Armstrong...one can do miracles and we buy it, the other , people respond by posting acres of doping related accusation/comment. From km 48 to 25km to was as in our faces as anything Lance or Pantani did...

Le Commentateur

I think it's becoming the new golf. Combine all the status-enhancing expensive technology (bikes costing thousands) with the exploits of a physically big rider like Cancellara who can be a role model for men who might otherwise think cycling is a sport for weedy little guys.

RichN95.

Dave_1 wrote:

the fanboyish postings re FC last sunday came from some Armstrong bashers. The forum has two standards..one for Cancellera , another for Armstrong...one can do miracles and we buy it, the other , people respond by posting acres of doping related accusation/comment. From km 48 to 25km to was as in our faces as anything Lance or Pantani did...

That's nonsense. He did his breakaway at an average speed of 38km/h - there's nothing 'extraterrestrial' about that.

andyp

That's a rare talent you have there Dave_1, maybe you can watch a few more races on TV then let the UCI know who's doping. :roll:

deejay

Dave_1 wrote:

this years Tour of Flanders had the highest viewing audience ever...hmm..Tom Boonen and Cancellera rode last year and and years before and it wasn't the highest viewing audience...hmm. Who else was in the race again?...

I have no Idea who else was riding (couldn't have been important) but the guy who posted 26 mins earlier than you did give the clue.
I would sugest that a big screen in Geraadsbergen and other places perhaps might be the reason as I've never seen this.
I havn't been to RVV for some years now because of the increased crowds which prevent me getting my 6/8 sightings in (not counting St Niklaas) and I don't like going for Grid Lock.
The race itself has now caught the imagination of people around the world who turn up and thus there are more people like me that just watch it on TV.

I wonder this person didn't call a go slow because of the Dangers of the course and I doubt if he would have turned up if it was bitterly cold and raining or even a bit of snow.

rockmount

RichN95 wrote:

That's nonsense. He did his breakaway at an average speed of 38km/h - there's nothing 'extraterrestrial' about that.

I take it you don't have the HD headwind realism feature enabled on your tv then !

afx237vi

Dave_1 wrote:

the fanboyish postings re FC last sunday came from some Armstrong bashers. The forum has two standards..one for Cancellera , another for Armstrong...one can do miracles and we buy it, the other , people respond by posting acres of doping related accusation/comment. From km 48 to 25km to was as in our faces as anything Lance or Pantani did...

Could that possibly be because they're different people? It's shocking, I know, but most people try not to judge different individuals with one standard.

dave_1

andyp wrote:

That's a rare talent you have there Dave_1, maybe you can watch a few more races on TV then let the UCI know who's doping. :roll:

:-) come on Andy,you've said similar about Hincapie 5 years back. Poor old Yatesy got the treament too though. You don't sound very convinced about Cance...but you are about Lance. Are you a fanboy or not?

dave_1

afx237vi wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

the fanboyish postings re FC last sunday came from some Armstrong bashers. The forum has two standards..one for Cancellera , another for Armstrong...one can do miracles and we buy it, the other , people respond by posting acres of doping related accusation/comment. From km 48 to 25km to was as in our faces as anything Lance or Pantani did...

Could that possibly be because they're different people? It's shocking, I know, but most people try not to judge different individuals with one standard.

the same race has been run for so long and never has one rider stood out like that...so one standard does apply in that race, just as Alpe Du Huez in 37 minutes and below rings alarm bells for many. Why aren't you bashing Cance the way you do Lance

Kléber

As much as I have suspicions over Cancellara's past and might raise an eyebrow at his dominance today - the cynic's reflex action - there is no compelling trail of evidence. He's not boasting about working with a crook, he's not got covered-up EPO tests, his team weren't found binning medicines, people have not given sworn testimony, etc etc.