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CTT Open entry form

Mike67Mike67 Posts: 585
edited March 2010 in Amateur race
I'm just filling an entry form for my first open TT and have done everything except the 'For Veterens Only' section.

Being unfortunately old enough to qualify for the above title could anyone advise what, if anything, I need to put in here.

The two boxes I am struggling with are:

Best Plus for distance...
and
Current standard time for event entered.

It's all gobbldegook to me I'm afraid.

Can anyone help me out please.
Mike B

Cannondale CAAD9
Kinesis Pro 5 cross bike
Lots of bits

Posts

  • richkrichk Posts: 564
    Head over to the VTTA standards page which (possibly) explains it better than I can :

    http://www.vtta.org.uk/newsite/Standards.htm
    There is no secret ingredient...
  • Mike67Mike67 Posts: 585
    Many thanks for that, it explains it perfectly.

    Down side is I should be 11 years older than I am now to be doing a standard time going by my best club result :(

    Ah well something to aim for this year.
    Coincidentally the 10 mile time I had in my head to aim for this year is almost exactly the standard time for my age.

    I think I will leave the best plus box blank :D
    Mike B

    Cannondale CAAD9
    Kinesis Pro 5 cross bike
    Lots of bits
  • Mike67Mike67 Posts: 585
    :D Just looked through the tables. If I was riding a trike I'd be dead on standard :lol:
    Mike B

    Cannondale CAAD9
    Kinesis Pro 5 cross bike
    Lots of bits
  • John.TJohn.T Posts: 3,698
    I have never filled that in yet. It only applies in vets and a few other events. Usually there is nothing in the entry details to say that there are vets standard prizes. If there are someone seems to work them out for you.
  • richkrichk Posts: 564
    Mike67 wrote:
    ...Down side is I should be 11 years older than I am now to be doing a standard time going by my best club result :( ...

    Perhaps I'm not doing so bad then :? I should only be 7 years older :o
    There is no secret ingredient...
  • John.TJohn.T Posts: 3,698
    I have not looked at these tables before. I quite like them. I have just become 51 again last Sunday. Pity they do not work for real as I am 67. :(
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    I leave them blank, they are not needed to be filled in. The organisor will sort out your vet std time based on your age, they will have the age stds for your age.
  • blackhandsblackhands Posts: 950
    SBezza wrote:
    I leave them blank, they are not needed to be filled in. The organiser will sort out your vet std time based on your age, they will have the age stds for your age.

    NO

    As an organiser I have enough to do without filling in missing details on entry forms - if its an oversubscribed event your entry will get thrown out - and as I have to leave the decision to the last moment you won't have time to enter another event.
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    Just out of interest, if you put it in a spreadsheet, how does it make it much more difficult. All 40 year olds get the same standard, so if you have more than 1 40 year old, surely then it is just as easy to populate a spreadsheet.

    Do you need to actually fill in the CTT form, are these forms sent off to the CTT or kept by yourself?

    If it is that you actually have to manually fill in the blanks of the form, then I will start filling them in, I thought they were used mainly for info for organisors rather than info that was a requirement.

    TBH I will never win any age standard awards at 40 anyhow, hence why I haven't bothered before.
  • John.TJohn.T Posts: 3,698
    blackhands wrote:
    SBezza wrote:
    I leave them blank, they are not needed to be filled in. The organiser will sort out your vet std time based on your age, they will have the age stds for your age.

    NO

    As an organiser I have enough to do without filling in missing details on entry forms - if its an oversubscribed event your entry will get thrown out - and as I have to leave the decision to the last moment you won't have time to enter another event.
    How do we know if there is an age standard section in the event. It is not in the CTT handbook. Not worth filling it out for the few that do have them. For the events that do someone has done it for me so far.
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    John.T wrote:
    blackhands wrote:
    SBezza wrote:
    I leave them blank, they are not needed to be filled in. The organiser will sort out your vet std time based on your age, they will have the age stds for your age.

    NO

    As an organiser I have enough to do without filling in missing details on entry forms - if its an oversubscribed event your entry will get thrown out - and as I have to leave the decision to the last moment you won't have time to enter another event.
    How do we know if there is an age standard section in the event. It is not in the CTT handbook. Not worth filling it out for the few that do have them. For the events that do someone has done it for me so far.

    +1

    I know VTTA events use age std times, but I don't think many club open events use them, and as such it is info not really needed, plus VTTA events are generally not over subscribed IME
  • blackhandsblackhands Posts: 950
    SBezza wrote:
    Just out of interest, if you put it in a spreadsheet, how does it make it much more difficult. All 40 year olds get the same standard, so if you have more than 1 40 year old, surely then it is just as easy to populate a spreadsheet.

    Do you need to actually fill in the CTT form, are these forms sent off to the CTT or kept by yourself?

    If it is that you actually have to manually fill in the blanks of the form, then I will start filling them in, I thought they were used mainly for info for organisors rather than info that was a requirement.

    TBH I will never win any age standard awards at 40 anyhow, hence why I haven't bothered before.

    Of course I can - but have you ever organised a TT - then you will know what a pain it is having half completed entry forms. In fact its attitudes like yours that have made me decide not to organise any more after this year.
  • blackhandsblackhands Posts: 950
    blackhands
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    blackhands wrote:
    SBezza wrote:
    Just out of interest, if you put it in a spreadsheet, how does it make it much more difficult. All 40 year olds get the same standard, so if you have more than 1 40 year old, surely then it is just as easy to populate a spreadsheet.

    Do you need to actually fill in the CTT form, are these forms sent off to the CTT or kept by yourself?

    If it is that you actually have to manually fill in the blanks of the form, then I will start filling them in, I thought they were used mainly for info for organisors rather than info that was a requirement.

    TBH I will never win any age standard awards at 40 anyhow, hence why I haven't bothered before.

    Of course I can - but have you ever organised a TT - then you will know what a pain it is having half completed entry forms. In fact its attitudes like yours that have made me decide not to organise any more after this year.

    You have completely missed what I was getting at, say you received a entry form without the std times being listed by the rider, and you were not doing any awards by age standard, do you - as an organisor actually have to complete this information in those that don't provide it on the entry form.

    I can't imagine you do, even if you did have age std awards. So having this information missing is not an issue.

    I am not talking about half completed entry forms, I am talking about the age std time for veterans. Non veterans do not fill this in, and get in events were there are age stds for vets. If someone doesn't fill the LTS for that distance in, then yes these can be rejected if there is a full field, but surely not because hasn't put down what their age std is?

    My entry forms are filled in very well thanks, all typed so easy to read, the only info missing is my age std, and again this is irrelevant for the majority of opens. I have the utmost respect for the organisors and officials at TT's thanks very much.
  • blackhandsblackhands Posts: 950
    SBezza wrote:
    John.T wrote:
    blackhands wrote:
    SBezza wrote:
    I leave them blank, they are not needed to be filled in. The organiser will sort out your vet std time based on your age, they will have the age stds for your age.

    NO

    As an organiser I have enough to do without filling in missing details on entry forms - if its an oversubscribed event your entry will get thrown out - and as I have to leave the decision to the last moment you won't have time to enter another event.
    How do we know if there is an age standard section in the event. It is not in the CTT handbook. Not worth filling it out for the few that do have them. For the events that do someone has done it for me so far.

    +1

    I know VTTA events use age std times, but I don't think many club open events use them, and as such it is info not really needed, plus VTTA events are generally not over subscribed IME

    I've just checked your results for 2009 and a good proportion - more than 50% (not including VTTA events) show vet standard results.

    Of course if I were organising an event with no Vets prizes I wouldn't care if that part were not filled in.
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    OK thats fair enough, I wasn't a vet last year so didn't take much notice, still don't now really, as I have no chance of winning anything by age std, that suits the older vets who are still pretty rapid.
  • John.TJohn.T Posts: 3,698
    This is all missing the point. Most events have prizes for seniors, juniors, ladies, vets and a handicap. These are all catered for with the main part of the form. The vets standard info is only relevent for events which have a 'vets on standard' category. How do I know which events run these, other than VTTA ones which I know will. If this information is not in the CTT handbook then why bother. I don't know what my 'best on standard' is for any distance and am not going to work it out on the off chance that I may get lucky. If you are running an event which has this category then tell us and we can fill the form in fully.
  • blackhandsblackhands Posts: 950
    In the Southeast where Bezza is based most events do not have vets on scratch and handicap prizes - they have vets on standard. According to the CTTs rules, handicaps require an approved handicapper to work these out - which many organisers are not.

    You only need to give your best on standard for events which will have a vets handicap on standard - and there are very few of theses. Your standard result is your time at an age minus your standard time for that distance at that age - which you can find on the VTTA website. Your best is the greatest positive (or smallest negative result of this calculation (irrespective of age) .

    As I pointed out to Bezza well over half the events he rode last year had a vets on standard prize. Its for these that the Standard time should be shown As I said before, because people can't be ar$ed to put this down and I have to look it up for them - at a time when I have to get the filed laid out, the start sheet done and posted or emailed, I don't need extra work. So I've decided that next year I can't be ar$ed to organise any more races.
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    Don't forget some of us, have only just turn a vet, so we will have not best plus time anyhow. I admit I do now have a best plus time for a 10, but it would be blank for 25's 50's 100's and 12hr, as I have not done any of these as a vet.

    Lack of this info shouldn't mean I miss out on an entry if my LTS is quick enough. I might not be eligible for any best improvement on vet Std time but that is fine.

    I will fill in my Age Std time for the distance I am entering now, but I would suspect an organisor would know what the Age Std time is for each age anyhow, or at least double check what has been entered.
  • John.TJohn.T Posts: 3,698
    Up here very few events have vets on standard, at least the ones I have ridden, so the assumption is that they do not. If they have then it should be in the handbook so we know to fill in those details.
  • simon_esimon_e Posts: 1,697
    blackhands wrote:
    As I said before, because people can't be ar$ed to put this down and I have to look it up for them - at a time when I have to get the filed laid out, the start sheet done and posted or emailed, I don't need extra work. So I've decided that next year I can't be ar$ed to organise any more races.
    Fair enough. But there are lots of people who appreciate the efforts organisers have to make to put on events.

    I would suggest that comprehending the arcane methods of CTT and other bodies is not always the simplest thing in the world. Sometimes I read some stuff and wonder if I've stumbled into the wrong forum and am expected to roll up a trouser leg :wink:
    Aspire not to have more, but to be more.
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