friction shifters

Mike400

Im sold on indexed shifting, wouldnt be without it on my rear mech

however after breaking my front mech shifter (wont shift onto biggest ring - triple crankset) im thinking of replacing it with a friction shifter, as I see it:

more reliable

simpler (I like simple tech)

easier to setup

Dont need indexed shifting at the front as my commute dictates im in the middle ring 99% of the time

Does anyone still bother with friction shifters?

wgwarburton

Mike400 wrote:

Im sold on indexed shifting, wouldnt be without it on my rear mech

What's so great about it?

Does anyone still bother with friction shifters?

Sure. Once you've got the hang of them they work just fine. I had indexed shifting on a mountain bike a few years back- it was handy but didn't seem like a vast improvement (and the loud clicks whenever you shift are a bit irritating!).
Super-fast shifts arn't something I need on a touring/utility/commuting bike, and friction shifters arn't as sensitive to adjustment, so you rarely need to fiddle with them.

Cheers,
W.

lost_in_thought

What's one of those then? :P

Are you sure you've 'broken' your normal mech? It could just be a case of adjusting limit screws or replacing cables...

And will friction derailleurs work with your current shifters?

I'm not one of the techie types on here, so the above could be a load of old b*llocks.

beverick

Can't see it myself, friction shifters are by their nature vague in operation and the accurance of the change unreliable.

I can't see circumstances where I'd back to friction changes.

Bob

Buckled_Rims

LiT could be right, sounds just like the FD cable has stretched and needs tightening or replacing.

Aidy

A friction shifter on the front makes a certain amount of sense, given as then you can trim the front mech. I know one or two people who do this.

That said, as others have said - have you tried readjusting your derailleur setup?

the_hundredth_idiot

Campag front derailleurs aren't indexed. Well, they kind of are but lots of little notches rather than each notch changing you to a different ring - so not quite friction shifters either.

I find it really helpful to be able to trim the front derailleur cage.

rolf_f

My Dawes has friction front, indexed rear downtube shifters. Have to admit, they work very nicely and are good fun. The sheer simplicity has much to be said for it - almost impossible for anything to break and, if it did, it would be cheap, quick and simple to fix.

I'm looking forward to my modern road bike and will appreciate not having to faff around off the bars during emergency gear changes when cycling up cliffs but there is something pleasant about mechanical simplicity.

As for electronic gear changing - pfft, wouldn't have that on any bike of mine!

Headhuunter

Friction shifters are fine, both front and back. I used to commute everyday on an old steel bike with friction shifters. You soon learn where to place the lever for immediate and smoothe shifting. No problem at all and no problems with cable stretch and then having to fiddle with the mech to get everything re-aligned. What I would miss, however, is the ability to brake and shift at the same time. If you have a "retro" frame with the shifters on the down tube, you can't do both, so you have to anticipate slowing down, shift gears and then bring hands up to the bars to brake.

OldSkoolKona

Worth pointing out, that its the shifters that are 'indexed', not the mech (rear or front). The mech just reacts to how much cable is pulled or released, nothing more.

daccordimark

When my 8 speed Ergos finally gave up the ghost last month I reverted to downtube shifters on my commuting bike and after a brief period of re-learning the technique I find I prefer them. They are indexed for the rear and friction for the front which seems the best of both worlds to me. I find front changes very easy (mainly middle to little and back again) and like being able to trim the front mech whilst changing rear gears all with the same hand.

As other posters have said I would be surprised if your front shifter is the problem though. More likely to be the adjustment on the mech.

Mike400

Just to clarify

its the shifter thats bust, its maybe five years old anyway, it will move the cable enough to put it onto the largest ring, but doesnt "click" and hold it there if that makes sense. Just worn out I think - works fine on the other two rings.

its a shimano MTB jobbie, one lever to shift up and one to shift down.

I like indexed on the rear because properly set up its nice and quick and accurate - perfect for the cut and thrust of riding between lights / lanes in a busy city centre.

But I like the idea of a simple friction shifter for the front derailer purely because the only time im not in the middle ring is on the short 1 mile ascent from my house in the morning!

My first MTB (early 90s) had friction shifters, and my old road bike had friction shifters, can remember trimming the front derailer on the go, handy!

richk

My TT bike is friction only (due to cost). Works fine.

secretsam

I'm still in the dark ages on one bike, although I have indexing on the other and must admit it's handy - but generally it's not a problem. But am going to treat myself to some DA down tube shifters once I've painted my frame.

lae

Does anyone know if friction shifters will work on a Shimano Alfine or Nexus IG hub? I can't see any reason why they wouldn't, I'm just wondering...

I've got a nice 1970s Coventry Eagle 531 butted frame I'm building into a tourer.

supersonic

Rapid fire on the MTB was a godsend for - quicker and more accurate for demanding terrain.

Probably not so essential on the road, and friction or multi ratcheted can be useful for the reasons given.

Is all personal preference.

nicklouse

road flat bar triggers have trimming abilities.

as does gripshift front twist grip.

lots of options.

fnegroni

I agree that in general, for the front mech you can certainly get away with friction shifters only.

Incidentally, at least on my 105 front shifter, the 'indexing' is more of a 'click': depending on how you set it up, each click either changes ring or trims the mech, which is handy on a compact with 10 cogs at the back, if like me you tend to you 8 or 9 of those cogs with each ring.

Incidentally, I just bought a folding steel bike, which was a single speed and got converted with an adapter, a cassette and a derailer, and indexed shifter. But because of the folding mechanism, the indexing keep going out, depending on the cable routing.
Hence I was pondering with two ideas: go back to single-speed, or drill a hole and fit a friction shifter on the (only) tube.

fnegroni

nicklouse wrote:

road flat bar triggers have trimming abilities.

Same on a 105 shifter, at least mine, for the front mech only though.

as does gripshift front twist grip.

That's what most folding bikes have for the rear derailer, which is what I am also considering, though I have never got on with grip shifters... but might be the cheaper/easiest option on my folder.

woodford2barbican

I have just got a new bike built with friction shifters.

rolf_f

fnegroni wrote:

I agree that in general, for the front mech you can certainly get away with friction shifters only.

People got away with friction shifters front and rear for decades!

Mind you, when I were a lad, many of us got away without a front mech at all! A ten speed racer (a bike with two at the front, 5 at the rear) was the height of glamour - I had to make do with a 5 speed

fnegroni

Rolf F wrote:

[
Mind you, when I were a lad, many of us got away without a front mech at all! A ten speed racer (a bike with two at the front, 5 at the rear) was the height of glamour - I had to make do with a 5 speed

Well, I too had one of those in my youth.

But back then, the 'credo' (belief in Italian), was that you should just mush up the gears. I tended to either shift too soon or (more likely on the uphill) too late.

I absolutely love how I can quickly go through the cogs with rapid indexed shifters, especially when climbing at speed and keeping a high cadence, or blasting downhill and holding on the drops.

wgwarburton

fnegroni wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

[
Mind you, when I were a lad, many of us got away without a front mech at all! A ten speed racer (a bike with two at the front, 5 at the rear) was the height of glamour - I had to make do with a 5 speed

Well, I too had one of those in my youth.

But back then, the 'credo' (belief in Italian), was that you should just mush up the gears. I tended to either shift too soon or (more likely on the uphill) too late.

This doesn't make sense to me...

I absolutely love how I can quickly go through the cogs with rapid indexed shifters, especially when climbing at speed and keeping a high cadence, or blasting downhill and holding on the drops.

I do this on my non-indexed bike easily enough. As others have said you soon learn how to position the shifter to change smoothly to the gear you want, and the bar-end shifters on my geared bike are right where I want them.

All us Luddites are saying is that the fancy integrated shifters are natty but they arn't without compromises and the old systems wern't that bad.

Don't be fooled by the marketing (that's not directed at anyone inparticular, BTW).

Cheers,
W.

nwallace

Finding it impossible to get Shimano front mech and shifter to align just right.
But a mutli-step ratchet that lets you set it exactly where you want it sounds great, and of course the wiring is tidier on Campagnolo. I should probably have made that change when I put the front disc brake on my tourer.

supersonic

I do this on my non-indexed bike easily enough. As others have said you soon learn how to position the shifter to change smoothly to the gear you want

You never mishift and have to readjust? Even slightly?

roger_merriman

My old bike has modern downtube shifters so index for the rear, and friction for the front, works well means no rub, even if one is being dumb and crossing the chain.

wgwarburton

supersonic wrote:

I do this on my non-indexed bike easily enough. As others have said you soon learn how to position the shifter to change smoothly to the gear you want

You never mishift and have to readjust? Even slightly?

Yeah, sure... happens sometimes but... so what? It's not like I'm racing.

For me, it's not worth investing in expensive shifters etc and changing chains (at, what, £20-£30 each?) every X months to get clicky-shifts. Obviously, I'm out of touch with the rest of the cycling world but I can live with that.... :-)

There's a cynical little voice in my head that says the marketing people at Shimano have convinced the world that clicky-shifting is the only option, and that a bike without it is a museum piece.... but I'm probably giving them more credit than they are due. It's probably more part of the "bikes as sports equipment" shift.

Cheers,
W.

itboffin

Personally I like mine ESP as they have the option to sis index or friction I'm also a big fan of bar end shifters attached to drop bar ends.
I have dura ace 10 speed and 105 7 speed, can't tell the difference!

My bike is steel my legs are old

curlew

frinkmakesyouthink wrote:

Does anyone know if friction shifters will work on a Shimano Alfine or Nexus IG hub? I can't see any reason why they wouldn't, I'm just wondering...

I've got a nice 1970s Coventry Eagle 531 butted frame I'm building into a tourer.

I've used an old 7-speed nexus with a down-tube friction lever, the same principle applies as with derailleur gears (you need to get a 'feel' for getting the lever position right). The main difference is that you've got no visual check to see what gear you've just shifted to.

fnegroni

WGWarburton wrote:

supersonic wrote:

I do this on my non-indexed bike easily enough. As others have said you soon learn how to position the shifter to change smoothly to the gear you want

You never mishift and have to readjust? Even slightly?

Yeah, sure... happens sometimes but... so what? It's not like I'm racing.

Mistery solved for me then...
I don't race with anyone other then myself, but I do take my training seriously, and 10 cogs and 'clicky' shifts are IMHO an improvement.

My comment about shifting too soon or too late with traditional friction shifters is that, sometimes the variety of road conditions and energy levels mean the ability to quickly change cogs at the back ensures the maximum efficiency output can be sustained for longer.
If you ever climb fast with your hands on the hoods, and you need a quick spring, the ability to just change cogs by stretching a finger is IMHO far superior to having to take hands off and in the heat of the moment mis-shift.
I have used 5 cogs with friction shifters for 10 years so I know what I am saying.
I also remember how in the middle of a ride my friction shifter started loosing friction and kept slowly getting the chain out of line. As you can imagine it can be a real pain and can actually result in broken chains if it happens on an uphill burst.

There's a cynical little voice in my head that says the marketing people at Shimano have convinced the world that clicky-shifting is the only option, and that a bike without it is a museum piece.... but I'm probably giving them more credit than they are due. It's probably more part of the "bikes as sports equipment" shift.

Quite the opposite in my opinion.

Shimano was one of the few companies to introduce new experimental features at the bottom end of the market. That was a test bed: if people really liked it, then it would have been a success. The pro's would get it later.

Now they are an established brand, they don't do that anymore: Di2 for instance is only available at the top of their range.

To put it in modern terms, imagine if Shimano put their Di2 technology at the bottom end.

We could *all* test for ourselves if it's a good thing or just a gimmick. Being at the top end meand we must trust or believe someone else, and make a huge investment and potentially be dissatisfied.

wgwarburton

fnegroni wrote:

...Mistery solved for me then...
I don't race with anyone other then myself, but I do take my training seriously, and 10 cogs and 'clicky' shifts are IMHO an improvement.

Cool. I'm sure they are better, just not better enough for me.

What are you training for out of interest?

... sometimes the variety of road conditions and energy levels mean the ability to quickly change cogs at the back ensures the maximum efficiency output can be sustained for longer....
If you ever climb fast with your hands on the hoods, and you need a quick spring, the ability to just change cogs by stretching a finger is IMHO far superior to having to take hands off and in the heat of the moment mis-shift.

OK, I do most of my riding on a fixie at the moment, anyway, so precise shifts under load arn't much of a priority :-)

I have used 5 cogs with friction shifters for 10 years so I know what I am saying.
I also remember how in the middle of a ride my friction shifter started loosing friction and kept slowly getting the chain out of line. As you can imagine it can be a real pain and can actually result in broken chains if it happens on an uphill burst.

That's a dubious argument, I feel: A twist with a screwdriver (or often the built-in knob) would fix that. Indexed shifters are far more sensitive to setup in my, admittedly limited, experience.

There's a cynical little voice in my head that says the marketing people at Shimano have convinced the world that clicky-shifting is the only option, ...

Quite the opposite in my opinion.

OK. We'll have to agree to disagree here, I think. I still feel bitter about Shimano's decimation of the cycling component industry.

Cheers,
W.