Riding style HT+FS

popstar

1st thing, I would like to congratulate all with coming Spring, yes weather is getting better! 

After riding in some Biblical conditions, came across some interesting details. Not saying that people are lazy, but I do ride HT while my buddies enjoy FS. Well it's not the point, but the style. You see, when I ride HT, I have to look for every smallest deep-berm-drop etc*  in order to adjust and extract speed from it, have to stand on my tiptoes to absorb terrain ... and generally I weave like some sort of beacon on the bike while my buddies take it so easy on FS. Not saying they are bad riders, but actually noticing what luxuries FS bike gives. They simply don't have to stand in attack position, they just leisurely sit on saddle and do suspension work for them. Also, when they do ride it** on trails, it's hard to keep up with them, cos my front end just about manages to track the ground, but my back-end does bertray me and spits me out of pedals which forces me to slow down. 
I do like my HT for pure feel of it, but I am getting ready for FS, cos I 've been cought by spreading virus desease called -Zesty.

Anonymous

this hasnt come around for a while so:

full sus is better than hardtail every time, fact. you should buy one as soon as possible.

popstar

Taking subject of FS vs HT aside, there are pro's and con's of each platform. All I do is, trying to seek compromises how could I improve my HT for a while, after all to get FS isn't easy, and think marketing hype about them does do it's intended job.

peter413

You could buy just a FS frame and transfer the parts from your HT

ilovedirt

Yeah i had a go on my mate's hardtail yesterday when we were at sherwood pines, i was bloody glad i was on my full bouncer! I wouldn't say FS takes the skill away, but hardtails do make you work a lot harder. If you like the feel of full suspension, buy one, that's all i can say really.

popstar

Surprisingly after trying out FS, I did notice it's lethargical pace going uphill, but somewhat liked action of it when doing technical climbs...gave me nice traction on back-end. My HT doesn't do that, it instead springs forward and either lifting front end or digging+spinning back wheel, guess I need to polish up my power-transfer balance in these kind of situations.

Is there any ex-FS who converted back to HT? Give HT crowd something to cheer about!?

peter413

popstar wrote:

Surprisingly after trying out FS, I did notice it's lethargical pace going uphill, but somewhat liked action of it when doing technical climbs...gave me nice traction on back-end. My HT doesn't do that, it instead springs forward and either lifting front end or digging+spinning back wheel, guess I need to polish up my power-transfer balance in these kind of situations.

Is there any ex-FS who converted back to HT? Give HT crowd something to cheer about!?

I'm not an ex-FS yet but I am seriously considering selling my stumpy frame and getting an on-one 456

Anonymous

there are loads of folk around who have gone back to ht bikes. there is no quantifiable reason for it really, some folk just prefer ht to fs, some prefer fs to ht. both will always be around, both will always have their fans.

ilovedirt

popstar wrote:

Surprisingly after trying out FS, I did notice it's lethargical pace going uphill, but somewhat liked action of it when doing technical climbs...gave me nice traction on back-end. My HT doesn't do that, it instead springs forward and either lifting front end or digging+spinning back wheel, guess I need to polish up my power-transfer balance in these kind of situations.

Yeah i know what you mean, that's what i love about it, you don't just spin your wheels and bounce about going uphill, particularly with the traction control setting on my scott, which reduces the rear travel to 75mm for climbing, works really well.

supersonic

For the budget I have, the HT will always win. Lighter, pedals better. I hate pedal feedback, and I hate bobbing - and all designs have one of the two (or both). i think this is why some people go back, or just found them more fun - and that is subjective to us all.

Even with an inifinite budget I'd still have a HT for where and how I ride. Possibly would have a Gt Idrive for shorter, much harder rides.

jay12

i bought a hardtail frame because it was much cheaper and i don't have to worry about the shock etc.

but i do want a fr/dh bike next so for that i will be getting a full suss no doubt

ilovedirt

Honestly, i think the genius is the perfect compromise for those who aren't sure about FS bikes. I don't think i would want one that didn't lock out or have adjustable travel like mine, as it would become pretty tiresome on the climbs, it just seems to work for me. Plus, i rode my friend's hardtail yesterday (first time i've ridden a hardtail offroad since last summer) and i was glad to get back on my scott (although that was partly because his bike was set up all wrong, i'm gonna have to give him a hand with that)

supersonic

There is no doubt the FS is still progressing with shock technology and designs: 10 years from now electronics will be commonplace.

Some designs just don't suit the way some people ride though.

popstar

Talking about GT I-Drive* ... aren't GT's very similar to Marin's in term of ride feel? My guess is, there are people who loves just to sit on saddle and simply keep mashing those pedals while suspension does it's job. That creates a lovely magic carpet feel, but takes fun factor out...somehow I would like to have both, from lurking on e-net there are FS bikes whith more lively characters but that's subjective.
Guess it's good to have HT and FS, but I finally see what's the idea behind that. Once you learn how to dance on your bike, that's the time when I see the purity of it. Still, I don't like to be launched off my pedals by my bike, anyone got solution to it?

ilovedirt

yeah that's true, same with any bike though, i couldn't go back to hardtail now (unless of course i break my frame, in which case hardtail will be the only option )

Bike technology has come on in leaps and bounds though definitely, i'm not totally sure about this electronic shock control thing cannondale have come up with... but in ten years time it could well be the norm, bloody expensive now though! (or it will be when it's available to the general public? i didn't really fancy reading the whole 6 pages on it in MBR)

Luke-Dob

Nothing beats that (horrible) feeling you get though when your swap from a FS to a HT for a easy ride. It really does show what a difference 2 shocks can have instead of 1 on one's performance.

Though FS is the way forward

Northwind

popstar wrote:

They simply don't have to stand in attack position, they just leisurely sit on saddle and do suspension work for them.

<snip>

back-end does bertray me and spits me out of pedals which forces me to slow down. 

You should be in the attack position whether you're on a full suss or hardtail tbh, I've seen some people that prefer to be seated on descents but I can't make any sense of it myself, it reduces your control so much. I've no idea at all why anyone would want to make themselves more of a passenger, lose their ability to weight and shift the bike.

I can honestly say I've never had my hardtail spit me off the pedals unless I've done something daft. You mentioned "standing on tiptoes to absorb terrain", now I don't say I do everything right but I've never done that, I can only imagine that'd cause you to be kicked off the pedals constantly though since you've lost all of your ability to deal with the upward motion if the bike kicks. Knees for suspension, feet for pedal traction. Works for me anyway. What you describe would be a bit like running suspension with no sag- great for absorbing initial impacts but useless for top-out, and it's top-out that kicks your feet.

I have both, like both, but the Soul is my baby and if I could only have one bike, that'd be it. I'm glad I can have a great hardtail and a great full suss as they do such different jobs but I prefer a hardtail.

chris_sw

Personally I've never ridden a proper full suspension bike, having previously always been out of my budget anyway. But I'll be going to one of the bike demo days later this year so will get a chance to see what all the fuss is about I'll probably end up getting a hard tail anyway since I think it would be best suited to what I ride, but you never know, I might be converted!

popstar

As always valuable points from Northwind. I don't stand on pedals tip-toe like ballerina though, ... but am sure you don't ride on your heels either. The problem I have is - front end is able to absorb multiple hits but then back end of my HT kicks quite violently and prevents both front and back wheels from tracking ground, if you see what am trying to say* . After all, I can't descend on front wheel only lol, not that skilled. It only arrises on situations when I go a lil-mental or trying to keep up with FS in front of me. Otherwise HT satisfies me in 90% of situations.

Northwind

Ah, I get you now, I'd misunderstood the tiptoe comment. Though it's not a problem I've had myself, I usually seem to be able to unweight the rear enough to get it to track OK, after all I've only got 130mm of suspension on the front but with the saddle down I've got about 12 inches of leg travel on the back But yup, this is exactly where a full suss makes such a big difference.

Out of curiosity, have you ever ridden a rigid? It's perverse maybe but I think that can improve HT riding a lot, because you basically lose the option of just letting the fork get on with things. Plus it's a lot of fun, as long as you have the option of not doing it all the time

popstar

Had rigid singlespeed with push back pedal brakes years back. It was all about magic in tyre pressures, the rest followed naturally.

ilovedirt

Yeah i have to admit, i do just sit down and let the suspension doing the work when stuff isn't overly technical or pointing downhill.

supersonic

only got 130mm

DH level not so long ago!!!

Northwind

Yup. I learned with no travel at all I meant that it's much less than the rear suspension legs give you, not that it's not a lot of travel! I'd be happy with 100mm, happier almost on most riding but I like the slacker angles I get when I wind the fork out.

Sarnian

I don't seem to get along with FS I have had 3 now, and they all just end up sitting In the shed as I always take one of my HT out, so I end up selling them.

I have been riding HT for almost 20 years, and I seem to do It well. I have told myself now If I get another FS I am going to spend a shed load of cash on It so I can get the best you can.

supersonic

But then if you spent that money on a HT, it may be better still ;-)

Anonymous

Sarnian wrote:

I don't seem to get along with FS I have had 3 now, and they all just end up sitting In the shed as I always take one of my HT out, so I end up selling them.

I have been riding HT for almost 20 years, and I seem to do It well. I have told myself now If I get another FS I am going to spend a shed load of cash on It so I can get the best you can.

just out of interest, what were the full sussers? i really enjoyed my last couple o hardtails, i couldnt quantify why but it was just different. i dont think i would go back though.

Sarnian

supersonic wrote:

But then if you spent that money on a HT, it may be better still ;-)

Well you could look at It that way, but a reckon I have spent enough on HT I think It's time to splash the cash on a FS and see If I can see what all the fuss Is about.

I would say the best FS I have owned and It was good was my Tomac revolver, but that still did not get used enough.

popstar

General conclusion points out that:  -younger savvy generation preffers FS, who like to push it really hard without realising how bad their crash could be. On the other end, HT hordes are the ones after silly crashes who made up their mind and adjusted style for the sake of purity but not speed.

In other words HT crowd have a style of -sqeezing lemon out of their bike, while FS just -enjoy having a succulent peach?

/give entertaining opinions ...

Anonymous

if its an entertaining opinion you want: ht riders are ghey

supersonic

People who give up MTBing are ghey.