Cyclists Rights on narrow roads

sweetslice

Hi guys, I need a little clarification on a road rule.

I've just had a stand up row with a truck driver at the side of the road, and I'm wondering if I'm right or wrong, cos if I'm wrong, as cyclists we're all screwed.

I was riding along and as usual there are cars parked intermittently along the side which makes the road quite narrow- narrow enough that a Mack truck and a bike can't pass thru side by side. I was well in front of the truck (he was probably 25metres behind me approaching at speed and had ample time to slow down) but as I went to go around the parked car, he blasted his horn at me well before he'd even got to me, as if 'get out of my way'. I got through the gap and turned and gave him the finger as he passed and he pulled over in front of me.

I suppose he thought cyclists are all a bunch of woosies but I'm confident of handling myself so I went right up to him when he pulled over. He came out and started saying that I had no right to go through ahead of him. His arguement was that I was in the same boat as a parked car would be and should thus stop and wait behind the stationary car, let him go through first and then proceed. I said you must be joking, I wasn't parked and pulling out, I was moving, so that rule doesn't apply. I was well in front of you so of course I'm not going to stop for something behind me to go through. Normally most people exercise a little patience and slow up because the vehicle ahead- bike or not- gets precedence. You need to wait until it's safe before you overtake.

I could, understand his perspective in that if you're in a car on the motorway and changing lanes you need to check behind you before you move accross, but technically I believe we're both in the same lane in this situation. Surely just because we cyclists are a bit slower than motorised vehicles doesn't mean they have the right of way here otherwise we'd never get anywhere!

I'd love to know what you guys think on this one.

Jez mon

Fairly sure he's completely wrong and by the sounds of it a bit of a to$$er.

However, if I'm on a very narrow road and approaching a steep hill with no room for cars to pass, I have been known to stop for a second if a number of cars are behind me...this is because, as a young man who drives a car, I understand that however patient you are outside of a metal box, the idiot switch does sometimes flicker on when you get in one and it does become easy to get frustrated.

eltonioni

You're right, he's a nob.

You might not always be right but he'll always be a nob so I wouldn't sweat it. Next time you could lamp him one, then you'll be a nob too :twisted:

MrChuck

I'm pretty sure he's wrong and you're right. You have the same rights to that piece of tarmac and he's behind you, so why wouldn't you go through first?

That said, as Jez mon suggests I do think it's sometimes wiser to judge each situation on it's merits and consider some common courtesy, say if you'd have a queue of traffic behind you when you could just as well let it go. But in this case it doesn't sound like there was any need to do that.

markos1963

Don't argue, next time just smack him one!

Bunneh

I always pull over and I always check what's coming in the opposite direction if there's cars behind me, then I wave them through if it's clear. Always one prick though and yes, he's a nob. Don't sweat it, he'll likely die of a pie induced heart attack.

MrHulot

Traffic behind you doesn't take precedence and you don't have to give way to them - preceding comments accepted though. Just another example of road users in vehicles assuming they have a God given right to unimpeded progress. A complete numpty as sadly are many drivers. Going down parked cars like that I'd have taken the road rather than dodge in and out, to avoid being doored if nothing else.

Mr_Cellophane

I might have read this wrong, but it sounds to me as though you were weaving in and out as you came to parked cars. If there are cars parked along the road, it is safer to hold the "passing line" until you fell that there is enough room for those behind to pass safely before the next car, or you feel generous enough to slow down in a gap and let them past.

GiantMike

You were right. As long as you looked, signalled and manoeuvred then he's a complete tw@t.

nwallace

How big a gap between parked cars?
You possibly shouldn't have returned to the left between the cars.
They have no right to being given the opportunity to overtake.

One of the most disturbing things I've had happen when driving in town was someone signal (in a car) left after a parked car, pulled significantly to the left and slowed down. Looked like they were parking, but they weren't, speed differential was about 5mph for that overtake. :?

jimmypippa

Mr_Cellophane wrote:

I might have read this wrong, but it sounds to me as though you were weaving in and out as you came to parked cars. If there are cars parked along the road, it is safer to hold the "passing line" until you fell that there is enough room for those behind to pass safely before the next car, or you feel generous enough to slow down in a gap and let them past.

That's what I do, and it works well...

benjboy

If you had been a horse rider would he have done that !!. I dont think so people in cars and lorrys practicaly stop when they have to pass a horse but speed past a cyclist :evil: . Why we should stop lashing out at cars that pass to close and then state if you damage a car that you where startled. :twisted: :twisted: .

pedylan

Cyclists rights on a narrow road are the same as on a wide road; ie if you're being followed by a "get out of my way" Clarkson knobhead then you have no rights.

According to the Highway code however, no road user has right of way over the road user in front. As an act of courtesy, slower moving road users are encourgaed to allow safe overtaking where possible - not at the first instance of holding another up.

Take the commnets about being doored to heart, that could kill you as effectivelyt as the truck following you.

deptfordmarmoset

There's two sides to being on the road. One side is the technical details - the OP is right and had the right to hold right of way and not give way to the ''might is right' pressure. Here the driver had mistaken the myway code for the highway code. The other side is the social side of what is a human activity: people don't drive lorries for pleasure, and their managers give them tight deadlines to get large vehicles a long way over great distances, often on barely suitable roads.

And on a purely pragmatic note - cyclists really don't want to have angry truckers on their tails. Every now and then, let them pass with a deliberate ''I'm considerate and letting you pass'' wave...and then draft them if there isn't already a tailback.

EDIT:Deleted a quote by someone who's deleted their post. Unless I'm going blind.

greasedscotsman

Do you think somewhere there is a guy having a rant on the Truck Radar forum?

crumbschief

Lol,another fckukin cyclist in my way,a yorkie didn't cover it either,luckily i looked upon the picture in my wallet of dear Shani Robino and i forgiven the syclist.

Headhuunter

jimmypippa wrote:

Mr_Cellophane wrote:

I might have read this wrong, but it sounds to me as though you were weaving in and out as you came to parked cars. If there are cars parked along the road, it is safer to hold the "passing line" until you fell that there is enough room for those behind to pass safely before the next car, or you feel generous enough to slow down in a gap and let them past.

That's what I do, and it works well...

Exactly. In situations like that, take the lane/hold your line. No point weaving in and out between parked cars. Only let anything behind you through when YOU are ready and feel safe. You are the most vulnerable road user not some tw@t in an enormous lorry.

greasedscotsman

I also try to wave to motorists as a means of saying thank you if they have waited to pass. OK, it's not always possible, especially in towns and cities, but I think anything we can do to create better feeling between drivers and cyclists has got to be worth trying. Every little helps

White Line

You need to use discretion. If I know that I'll be holding somebody up for a stupid amount of time when I could easily let them past first I'll slow down and wave them through. They're usually smart enough to work out what's going on. Although, if it's only a few cars or whatever they can wait. I'm not going to lose my momentum just so some random guy can save four seconds.

I quite oftenv go down a narrow road where one lane is full of parked car and you get douchebags coming the other way trying to squeeze past because the parked cars are in their lane. Honestly, ninja skills and spidey skills come into play here! 8)

I do get quite a lot of people giving way though, which is nice. Always give them a wee wave/nod/smile thing. Always nice to thank folk for not being a dick.

brin

Mr_Cellophane wrote:

I might have read this wrong, but it sounds to me as though you were weaving in and out as you came to parked cars. If there are cars parked along the road, it is safer to hold the "passing line" until you fell that there is enough room for those behind to pass safely before the next car, or you feel generous enough to slow down in a gap and let them past.

agree with above, you should always hold your line whilst passing parked cars,waiting until a large enough gap appears for you to let other road users behind pass. obviously the truck driver was far too impatient, but not all drivers are, a friendly wave of acknowledgement to drivers as they eventually pass usually goes down well.
on a technical point if an accident had occurred the truck driver would/could have claimed that you 'just appeared' from between 2 parked cars.

JamesB

Whilst you are technically right at the end of the day, if I had seen him bearing down on me I would probably have waved him through on basis 1. An accident would cause me more damage, and 2. courtesy may have had a positive (although unlikely) effect upon him for future incidents as this.

btw; I`m quite surprised how many oncoming cars actually slow down and pull over on my local narrow lanes to let me continue through rarely do I get run off the roads in this way

de_sisti

JamesBwmb wrote:

btw; I`m quite surprised how many oncoming cars actually slow down and pull over on my local narrow lanes to let me continue through rarely do I get run off the roads in this way

On today's Mad March Hare sportive, I was forced off a narrow lane by a WVM. He didn't
deviate his line at all to let us pass each other at a safe distance, neither did he slow down.
It was a slight incline for me and a slight downhill for him. Such aggression from some people
in motorised vehicles. :roll:

dilemna

I like truckin' and I like to truck ...........

Probably not the best move to gave him the finger ....................

No he doesn't have right of way over you as he is behind you. He should drive considerately and anticpate that vulnerable road users such as cyclists need space and more time to pass parked cars or obstructions. There is no mention of truckers or any other vehicle drivers being able to bully or intimidate slower road users.

I had a situation very similar to this last week riding home. Was on a rural road and had just got inside a 40mph limit houses on my side fields on the other. Up ahead about 300m was a hopsital mobility bus stopped by the side of the road dropping a patient in a wheel chair off. It had it's lights and hazards on. Cars were steaming by me on the other side of the road and not pulling in until passed the hospital van. I'm getting nearer and nearer, looking behind frquently looking for a gap to slot into. Van is getting nearer and nearer, should pull out. Lots of cars coming fast from behind as rush hour. There's a gap, so goose neck a rear ward look and stick my right arm out. I wear bright yellow and hi-viz plus 4 SMART lights on the back. This sh1t of driver is speeding toward me well in excees of 40mph more like 60, as I start to pull out, he does not slow but drives straight at me as just like on the motorways. He tried to force me into the back of this ambulance. So I shout "Oi!!!" He slams on his brakes about 3 feet from my rear wheel angrily shaking his head and waving his fist. He's driving a silver Skoda. He's white, about 45 years old, short dark hair, in a shirt and tie and I think a Skoda Octavia. So I pass the parked up ambulance at 10 mph as opposed to 24mph which was the speed I was riding at when I indicated to pull out but couldn't as there was a car a long side me preventing me from doing so, so had to brake as I was getting close to the ambulance. So as Skoda driver came by after I had passed the ambulance I shouted "Slow down!" He stuck his middle finger up at me. He looked like he could be an official at the local council. "Ar$e hole!" I thought to myself.

Bunneh

Had a bus driver deliberately try to cut me off in a cycle lane. I was coming down a hill at arround a leisurely 20mph, inside a cycle lane on a duel carriage way. As I neared the lights the bus driver just pulled into the cycle lane, with no bus stop in sight! I managed to scoot between him and the parked car, but felt the bumper clip my back wheel. Looking back I gave him one of the cold stares that is only reserved for my local MP and he just sat there laughing.

Fupping moron! So I stopped, got the mobile phone out and snapped his number plate; he stopped laughing then...

sweetslice

Thanks for all the replies, its great to see so much support on this one.

A lot of you have asked why I didn't take the whole road as yes, I was weaving in and out of parked cars. The reason for this, which I didn't put on the original thread, is that it was going up a hill and 10mph is all I could do, so I tend to duck into empty spaces to free up room for cars to go past me. Normally on the flat I certainly would cover the whole road but its a bit too much to do it on a climb.

And as to how long I was holding him up for... 1 parked carlength. He was pissed that he had to even touch his brakes yet he had time to pull over and argue about it. A proper twatt for sure and probably wouldn't get another like that for 10 years. Most people are much more considerate.

passout

You are right but holding your line between cars is safer because their are idiots out there.

Bugly

I would rather be polite and cede to the truck driver who is in the wrong, over being in the right and run over.

mrchrispy

hold your line and tell im to feck off.
do not let cars bully you.
simples.

shmo

Given the chance I'll always give up my right of way to let a lorry past It's scary enough getting overtaken by an artic on a dual carriageway let alone in town with all the usual obstructions. I don't care if it's cowardly or bad practice, I want as little to do with them as possible when on bicycle.

Had a scare last week coming up to a traffic island - lorry driver must have misjudged it and slowed right down as he squeezed between me and the island. Wish I had the confidence to jump onto a parallel kerb going 10mph uphill but I'd probably have mucked it up and ended up under a wheel so had to stop and shuffle onto the pavement manually. Think I'll try and get myself out the way much earlier next time I see an island ahead with the sound of an 11-litre engine ringing in my ears.

beverick

Firstly, and irrespective of other road traffic law, he should only sound his horn to warn you of his presence and not as a rebuke which is what sounds to have happened. Similalry you should not have 'given him the finger'.

Now onto the specific circumstances. Although there is no specific law covering what you're talking about, as a road user you do have an obligation not to cause an obstruction.

Highways Act Sn 137 applies "If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a Highway he is guilty of an offence..."

So I'd say if you were aware of faster traffic behind you and it was safe to do so, you were obliged to move over and let that traffic pass. Irrespective of the law I'd say you'd have been well advised to move over.

There is nothing in law to say that following traffic has a legal right to overtake. In fact the onus is on the overtakor to ensure that their proposed manoevre is safe. However, they have started the overtake the overtakee has a legal obligation not to obstruct them.

Bob

MrHulot

'Squeeze between me and the island' and 'get myself out the way much earlier' - I reckon it's only a matter of time before you have an arguement with a truck and you're possibly not exactly helping. That's the whole point of what many have said here, in a nutshell, if you show a gap to following traffic that may be just about big enough then they'll try it and risk squeezing you off the road or worse.

Also if you're hugging the kerb you have no where to go. You get all the drain covers and gulleys as well as cracks and road debris with no room to take avoiding action when confronted with a ped or car door. Approaching an island in town I'll look behind and take a wider path to prevent anybody squeezing past, same for parked cars etc. Have a read of John Franklin's Cyclecraft, it sets out the case for assertive riding very well and in a wider context without the need to be a Ninja.

Quoting the Highways Act is irrelevant in these circumstances. What is relevant is the Highway Code (not law before anybody goes off on one) stipulates road users should be careful and considerate towards all types of road users, especially those requiring extra care - and this group includes cyclists. It also says cyclists should be given plenty of space as they 'may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers' etc. No where does it say cyclists should give way to traffic behind them as suggested here which is a ridiculous.