touring on carbon???

flamite

posted this in road touring and didnt get much response, anyone got any ideas?

Hi i'm planning on touring round the south of france/corsica this summer, and just figuring out if i can do this with my carbon wilier mortirolo?? Will the carbon support panniers etc, i know i have to get clips to attach a rack...

what do you guys think? will try and travel as light as poss and stay in hotels/b&bs so no tent needed... Other option is to get a trailer, failing that will have to go on the old steel raleigh racer...

i am just worried that the rack mounted with a clip and carbon might not be strong enough for all the panniers.

Thx!

cjcp

The carbon will be strong enough - it takes much more stress than panniers. I would have thought it's a question of whether you have the rack mounts.

iPete

e-mail the manufacturer but I don't see any reason why it won't work as long as your weight isn't to high.

I'd mount the pannier to the seat post with an M:Part clamp and to the Axle...

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/MPart ... 300005198/
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Tubus ... 360025907/

Then consider something like a Tubus fly, then again, if your credit card touring, I don't see why you couldn't also consider mounting a bag under the seatpost.

flamite

thx,

im told there are various p clips and m clips which can clip the rack to the frame and seatpost...

lost_in_thought

Now, I don't know if this is true or not, but bear with me... it's what I've been told...

Carbon, although very strong, doesn't respond well to heavy loads against the designed load paths, especially if they're focused in one area. As a result of that, attaching a pannier rack to a carbon frame with clips is a Very Bad Idea.

If it had rack mounts then it would be fine as the designers would have factored in the load of a rack and panniers, I've never seen this myself but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

So, in summary, no, I don't think it would be OK.

A trailer, though, might be, if you could attach it to the skewer somehow?

EDIT: attaching a rack to the skewer and seatpost (as long as the seatpost isn't carbon) would be OK.

Rich158

I'd go on the steel Raleigh. The carbon may be strong enough, but generally the tubes are made to be strong in the direction the frame designer would expect them to work. Putting panniers on may well introduce stresses in directions the manufacturer didn't forsee which could lead to problems. There's also the issue of scratches etc, would you be willing to run the risk of damaging the paint job, the Motirolo is a very nice bike after all,

Personally I'd go on the Raleigh just because it's old school and fits the image of cycle touring better than the Motirolo

will3

If you're going really light - credit card, travel wash and a change of clothes then you'll prob be OK (assuming you can mount your luggage without jiggering your frame). but:
1) If you're carrying weight (ie luggage) are you gonna get up the hills with your gearing
2) is your rear wheel strong enough for luggage (probably, but spoke breakages on tour are a pain)
3) are you planning for it to rain at all (coz touring all day in the rain with no mudguards is no fun) then again - sounds like a nice trip

flamite

cheers guys, this is what i kind of thought too... did have visions of taking the wilier back to its home country though, sneaking over the boarder into italy....

i guess the old raleigh will stand up to job too, probably the wiser option, and wont be as worried about it getting pinched!

stuaff

I have a similar problem. If you can get your stuff in a 16 litre bag, one of these which I've just bought for my London-Paris ride (the organisers take luggage but I've still got to get my gear to and from the smoke). And yes, I'm sticking with an alu seatpost just in case, though I know a Colnago C50 owner who's used one with a carbon post and not had problems. If you need something bigger, the Carradice saddlebags (up to 23l) can be carried with the aid of one of these .

Edit: Or like you seem to have decided, just take the Raleigh

wgwarburton

flamite wrote:

Hi i'm planning on touring round the south of france/corsica this summer, and just figuring out if i can do this with my carbon wilier mortirolo?? ....!

...in addition to the comments about loading carbon tubes and racing wheels that others have made ...

What would you gain by using the Wilier? Would the weight saving be significant once you have a touring load on? Is it more comfortable? More reliable?

Use the right tool for the job. If that's the Carbon bike then take it...

Cheers,
W.

il_principe

lost_in_thought wrote:

A trailer, though, might be, if you could attach it to the skewer somehow?

A trailer, A TRAILER?! On a carbon Wilier!

Go and wash your mouth out young lady.

tgotb

lost_in_thought wrote:

Carbon, although very strong, doesn't respond well to heavy loads against the designed load paths, especially if they're focused in one area. As a result of that, attaching a pannier rack to a carbon frame with clips is a Very Bad Idea.

What she said. I know a thing or three about carbon, having built some carbon boats and masts, and the issue is as follows:

A carbon frame is basically a collection of rigid points (BB, dropouts, seatpost clamp, brake hangers etc) attached by tubes with designed strength/stiffness. The only purpose of those tubes is to keep the rigid points in the right place relative to each other. So long as you don't ask those tubes to do anything different you should be fine. This means that a rack which transfers its weight directly to the bottom bracket, either via the dropouts or the rear axle, should be fine. A rack which transfers its weight to (for instance) the seat stays probably isn't. A carbon tube can actually do its job with thin walls, but if you want to attach anything to it, especially if the attachment is goign to create a load pushing the tube out of column, you need extra reinforcement.

There are a couple fo special cases though:
For very small loads (eg the weight of a mudguard) you can get away with clamping it to any tube
The seatpost has to be built with relatively thick walls because it could be used in any position, so you're much safer clamping loads to that (hence the seat post racks you see). In the worst case, the seatpost is also rather easier to replace. This is why it's unwise to clamp that type of rack (or anything else) to the thinner-walled seat tube.

If you can figure out a way of attaching your rack to the dropouts (probably via rear axle) you should be good to go. Loads at the top attachment point should be relatively low; if you have to clamp to a tube, use the seatpost if possible, otherwise clamp to the seat stays, as close as possible to the join with the seat tube (where the walls will be thicker).

If you were prepared to sand the paint off your lovely frame and add some extra carbon, there would be a few more options. However I'd guess that's not the case :-)

tgotb

double post

Roastie

LiT and others are spot on. Carbon is strong for what it is designed to so, but not for what it isn't. Unless the frame is designed for load carrying (i.e. proper rack mounts) I wouldn't chance it.

You might perhaps try a large Carradice saddle bag (swap seat post for an alu one), but I'd still be hesitant about the strength of the seat clamp area.

Old Raleigh, or perhaps a good excuse to go shopping.

jonginge

flamite wrote:

posted this in road touring and didnt get much response, anyone got any ideas?

I like what you did there

linsen

JonGinge wrote:

flamite wrote:

posted this in road touring and didnt get much response, anyone got any ideas?

I like what you did there

In the light of recent comments about the use of the commuting forum - hahahahahahaha

ex-pat scot

I'd also go with the Raleigh if it is comfortable. You won't be worried about it getting nicked.

If you insist on using the carbon, then consider one or more of the following:

- bar bag
- saddle pack (NOT seatpost-mounted rack)
- low riders for front, that attach directly to the skewer (can't remember what they are called, but they're marvellous).

flamite

JonGinge wrote:

flamite wrote:

posted this in road touring and didnt get much response, anyone got any ideas?

I like what you did there

Roastie wrote:

or perhaps a good excuse to go shopping.

did think of this, but dont know if i can justify a new bike for just a few summer jollies?!?

Thx for the advice, think i'll go with the raleigh, needs some tweaking/upgrading though to make it more comfortable...

Eau Rouge

You might be able to hire one out there, which saves the trouble of getting the bike there and lets you get something more suitable, perhaps with lower gearing.
Putting panniers on my Mortirolo.....yeah no.

essex-commuter

If you broke your carbon bike while touring in some remote country you wouldn't be able to walk it into the nearest blacksmiths and get it perfectly repaired how you would if you were riding steel.

Roastie

Here's an idea. But a Ribble winter special F&F - fit the parts off the Wilier for the trip + pannier rack. Once you get back, swap the parts back and flog the Ribble on eBay.

will3

essex-commuter wrote:

If you broke your carbon bike while touring in some remote country you wouldn't be able to walk it into the nearest blacksmiths and get it perfectly repaired how you would if you were riding steel.

ROTFLMAO

This is why I will only tour on wooden frames - finding a blacksmith can be hard, but anyone with a bottle of PVA and some nails can mend a wooden frame.

tgotb

essex-commuter wrote:

If you broke your carbon bike while touring in some remote country you wouldn't be able to walk it into the nearest blacksmiths and get it perfectly repaired how you would if you were riding steel.

Back in the day when I was sailing competitively, we used to take spare carbon and resin to competitions with us; broken masts could be fixed in a couple of hours and then left to cure overnight, other repairs were somewhat easier/quicker. A bike frame repair should be easier than a mast, because you don't have to worry so much about making it too stiff.

In the more distant past when we were using Aluminium masts, spares had to be taken to important events, and broken ones normally went straight into the skip.

A small carbon repair kit might weigh a couple of hundred grams. You might not want to carry that on a tour, but it'd be a h*ll of a lot lighter than a set of welding equipment :-)

rubbercolin

+1 on what's been said about touring on a carbon frame.

I thought it would be ok to use a tubus fly rack on my trek 4.5 . (Attached by a single stay to the rear brake caliper bolt with the tubus Q/R lugs) .

Even with 12kg evenly loaded it had a vicous lateral wobble downhill. Would have runied my trip if daily baggage transfer was not included .

Without the rack the 4.5 is my favorite ride -- planted and stable .

Loaded for touring = nightmare.

Fair play -- not all carbon frames will be the same .Advise a weekend long trip with plenty of hills loaded up.

Good luck

Fireblade96

I did a mini-tour last year on my Wilier La Triestina - alu frame but with carbon rear triangle.

I was staying in B&Bs, and it was summer so I didn't need much kit. I used a Topeak beam rack - the smallest road one, not the MTB one. Rather than use the associated Topeak bag (which itself is heavy and really small) I used a sailing/kayaking 15l dry bag, bungied to the rack. I even found that my Abus D-lock sat nicely on the rack under the bag.



It wasn't pretty, but it was light, completely waterproof, and did the job admirably. The rack did move around a tiny bit and scratched the seatpost, but I can live with that (and if I'd thought I'd have used some insulting tape on the seatpost first).


I also carried a very small Camelbak (withouth the bladder) as a rucksack, just for maps/snacks/stuff I wanted to get to quickly. I've since acquired a bar bag and I think that, in conjunction with the beam rack, will allow me to carry all I ever need for a light 'n' fast short tour.

I'm looking at sensible, custom steel frames as well though.....