Commuting Tyres

itboffin

I'm giving in, after years of commuting on 700x23c tyres I've finally had enough of harsh rides, so before I splash yet more cash I have a couple of questions which hopefully the collective genius that is the "hive" of commuting knowledge will be able to answer.

1. are 28c tyres more comfortable ie softer ride?
2. are 28c tyres much slower that the eqiv 23 or 25?
3. do 28c tyres need wider inner tubes?
4. is there any benefit to slightly larger at the back than the front, like attack force?
5. are Conti GP 4 seasons worth the money?

always_tyred

I tried 28's.

A bit more comfortable, but I hated them. The handling of the bike is different and I couldn't get confident cornering because I could feel just a bit of sidewall flex. And they certainly feel slower, although I couldn't swear to you that this was actually manifested on my bike computer.

I'm on 25's at the moment and I get noticeably fewer pinch flats, can't really tell the difference in handling to 23's but I do notice a touch more comfort.

Not a lot, mind you, but you already have loads of children so I wouldn't worry about it ITB.

barry_kellett99

I have run Michelin pro race 2's and 3's on my proper road bike while commuting for ages, they are fast, grippy and light. I have slashed two though on glass and they arent that cheap to replace.

Still, for the nice few months of the year I will be using them again (23's) Last winter and the winter before i used them all the way through and only had a few visits from the fairy.



Thsi winter with the building of my pompino I went for 25c Conti Gator Skins. They aren't as fast but you never would know it as a comfortable top speed on the SS is probably just under 19mph or so. They have been plenty grippy enough, zero visits from the fairy so far and they have done well in excess of 1000 miles. They are comfortable enough I think. To me they are a good compromise of everything.

I have a small nick on the front one on the side wall but the thread underneath is so strong its not been an issue, i kept an eye on it for a few rides and I only remembered about it now after thinking about them for this post!

Kieran_Burns

Hell, I run 32s on my Tricross 8) but then I did some bridleway sections that 'required' a bigger tyre.

Slower? Well, I guess they must be, but I was able to get a PB of 45 mins for 14 mile commute. Really, the bigger tyres soak up a lot of the road noise very well, and I've never had an issue with cornering - I just make sure the tyres are pumped to the highest rated pressure and there is little flex I am aware of.

You may need larger inner tubes, but this is dependent on what you have now as I think they fit 23-32 tyres in one size.

Mind you, now you've got me thinking... I have a pair of VERY good 28s I could fit to the Tricross as my route is all road now.

kelsen

I'm have Continental GP 4 Seasons 25c on my Tricross. Used to have the same tyres in 23c on my previous bike. I would say the ride is slightly less harsh with no noticeable loss of performance on a commute. Probably would've noticed a bigger difference if I'd gone up to 28c.

cjcp

I tend to go for durability and leave the frame, fork, saddle and seatpost to sort comfort.

Am very happy with my 23mm Durano Pluses @100psi, and I've just ridden over the cobbles in Wapping High Street at a fair ol' lick. I've tried 25mm and not sure I noticed the difference. I didn't think they provided any for grip, that's for sure, but I think that comes down to the compound anyway, rather than the width of the tyre.

Clever Pun

ITB what tyres do you run at present

I never want to use them

DonDaddyD

itboffin wrote:

4. is there any benefit to slightly larger at the back than the front, like attack force?
5. are Conti GP 4 seasons worth the money?

I can answer these.

I'm not sure there is any benefit to the attack/force concept of a larger rear tyre and narrower front (quality of tyres not withstanding). I have the set up on both my Kharma and commuter (mostly out of a purchasing mistake on the commuter). In principle it should work, I'm just not sure that at my level it makes a huge difference.

GP 4 seasons are superb tyres. I have had GP 4000s, GP 4 seasons and Attack/Force. The only reason I put Attack/Force on the Kharma is because they're called Attack/Force and that's cool.

GP 4 seasons are superb and the best of the three IMO.

will3

I;m running 38s at the moment. They're lovely and I don't fear potholes too much.

Clever Pun

GP 4seasons will soon have no puncture resistance

mark my words people

essex-commuter

Conti GP's with black chili compound for racing, can't beat 'em. Not avail in 4 seasons though, and prob not a good commuting choice....don't know why I posted really, just like writing BLACK CHILI COMPOUND!

DonDaddyD

I got sucked into the "black chili compound" thing.

Right up until I got through a a GP 4000s in less than a year.

essex-commuter

DonDaddyD wrote:

Right up until I got through a a GP 4000s in less than a year.

I got round that, I just fit a new set for every race

Joking aside, I just race on them, nothing else. I only race say 10 to 15 times a year with a high percentage of those being 25m TT's and 1hr crits, not mega mileage.

Conti's advertising (so it must be true huh!):

The fact is that Black Chili will improve our tyres performance in all areas. We can even make a tyre to last longer, yet also grip better and roll faster! The figures are astounding; 26% lower rolling resistance, 30% higher grip, and even 5% longer mileage.

amnezia

essex-commuter wrote:

Conti GP's with black chili compound for racing, can't beat 'em. Not avail in 4 seasons though, and prob not a good commuting choice....don't know why I posted really, just like writing BLACK CHILI COMPOUND!

I commute on 23mm GP4000s and love them, they've done about 3000+ miles and are still going strong.

I prefer Michelin pro race 3's on the best bike though

jonginge

Clever Pun wrote:

GP 4seasons will soon have no puncture resistance

mark my words people

Yes. ITB, these are not the tyres you are looking for*


* have two brand new GP 4 seasons sitting by my desk just delivered from wiggle and about to be fitted to the commuter

gbsahne001

I run 35 on the back and 28 on the front (only because the 32 that was on the front blew out) and still manged a pb of 42mins for 13.5miles.

Looked at the GP-4000 after the 28 blew out but couldn't justify the money, as red lights tend to slow me down more than the road.

AidanR

itboffin wrote:

1. are 28c tyres more comfortable ie softer ride?
2. are 28c tyres much slower that the eqiv 23 or 25?
3. do 28c tyres need wider inner tubes?
4. is there any benefit to slightly larger at the back than the front, like attack force?
5. are Conti GP 4 seasons worth the money?

1. Yes, but only if you take advantage of the ability to run them at lower pressures
2. They're not quite so good aerodynamically, and lower pressure tends to mean worse rolling resistance, but so long as you don't go really low you probably won't notice (for the same type of tyre)
3. Yes, but you can get away with it
4. Yes, as more of your weight is over the back. I don't think I've ever got a pinch puncture in a front tyre...
5. No idea, but they sure look tempting

itboffin

Thanks all good advice, I just nipped out for a cheeky pre-meeting 20 on the old steel road with 23c Michelin very nice plenty of grip but still there's that grumble and bounce over the extremely poor country lanes, mud, stones, crap and ice really is worse than the huge pot holes and endless manhole covers in the city.

I'm beginning to think the PF stays up all night sharpening those tiny flakes of stone, no wonder she has such a temper.

barry_kellett99

You go out and do miles in the middle of the morning before a meeting? What? The? Fudge?

itboffin

barry_kellett99 wrote:

You go out and do miles in the middle of the morning before a meeting? What? The? Fudge?

Yes why?

barry_kellett99

itboffin wrote:

barry_kellett99 wrote:

You go out and do miles in the middle of the morning before a meeting? What? The? Fudge?

Yes why?

Just wondering!
I need to be my own boss I think.

cjcp

itboffin wrote:

Thanks all good advice, I just nipped out for a cheeky pre-meeting 20 on the old steel road with 23c Michelin very nice plenty of grip but still there's that grumble and

bounce over the extremely poor country lanes, mud, stones, crap and ice really is worse than the huge pot holes

and endless manhole covers in the city.

I'm beginning to think the PF stays up all night sharpening those tiny flakes of stone, no wonder she has such a temper.

I don't think she stays up all night, fella. I think she lives near you.

itboffin

cjcp wrote:

itboffin wrote:

Thanks all good advice, I just nipped out for a cheeky pre-meeting 20 on the old steel road with 23c Michelin very nice plenty of grip but still there's that grumble and

bounce over the extremely poor country lanes, mud, stones, crap and ice really is worse than the huge pot holes

and endless manhole covers in the city.

I'm beginning to think the PF stays up all night sharpening those tiny flakes of stone, no wonder she has such a temper.

I don't think she stays up all night, fella. I think she lives near you.

Oh you're in for a nasty surprise come the highclere (you are doing that one aren't you?) last year the stretch of road from Hurstbourne Tarrant along the bourne valley literally had a cyclist every 50 yards or so repairing a flat - not me however, my pre-ride sacrifices worked a treat :twisted:

vorsprung

AidanR wrote:

itboffin wrote:

1. are 28c tyres more comfortable ie softer ride?
2. are 28c tyres much slower that the eqiv 23 or 25?
3. do 28c tyres need wider inner tubes?
4. is there any benefit to slightly larger at the back than the front, like attack force?
5. are Conti GP 4 seasons worth the money?

1. Yes, but only if you take advantage of the ability to run them at lower pressures
2. They're not quite so good aerodynamically, and lower pressure tends to mean worse rolling resistance, but so long as you don't go really low you probably won't notice (for the same type of tyre)
3. Yes, but you can get away with it
4. Yes, as more of your weight is over the back. I don't think I've ever got a pinch puncture in a front tyre...
5. No idea, but they sure look tempting

1. I think they are slightly more comfortable, even at the same pressure
2. They are heavier and therefore slower
3. No
4. Some people run wider at the front as they grip better in mud
5. GP4 Seasons are excellent tyres but I don't commute on them. The 28mm ones are 25,6mm really, btw

You don't seem to have the same goals with a commuting tyre that I do
I use 28mm Marathon Plus. They weigh 740g each. That's about a imperial pound more per tyre than a typical folding race tyre. I have just clocked up 10,000km and no punctures on the rear one.
I also believe that they are good training. If I can accelerate these elephantine masses up to 40kph then just imagine what power I can put into the light weekend bike.

simon_e

These are opinions, not facts.

1. They can be. Higher TPI rating tyres give a more pliable casing. Pressure makes a difference to comfort yet I felt very little difference in rolling resistance between 60 and 90 psi... however, I'm usually more bothered about where I'm going and what I can see (I have a mostly rural commute and the scenery is a big part of the fun - SCR is rare).
2. No.
3. If your current inners are 18-23c then probably yes. If they're to 25c you'll be OK (and as you've seen in this thread, different tyres have different 'real world' sizing).
4. Pass.
5. Don't know, but I've read plenty of favourable comments about GP 4 Seasons on this forum. Alternatives: Krylion, Rubino Pro III, MTB with full suspension

will3

AS regards #2 my commute record is held on my CX with 38mm tyres vs my road bike with erm, 25s (I think - it's been so long since I rode it.....)

itboffin

will3 wrote:

AS regards #2 my commute record is held on my CX with 38mm tyres vs my road bike with erm, 25s (I think - it's been so long since I rode it.....)

interesting youre the 2nd person in a week to say they're jus as if not faster on fat tyre CX, mmmmm

MonkeyMonster

going to need a new back one for mine - a fooking massive triangle of glass provided me with a visit from the pf along with a huge gouge out of the tyre itself.

btw - tracks pumps are the dogs danglies

vorsprung

itboffin wrote:

will3 wrote:

AS regards #2 my commute record is held on my CX with 38mm tyres vs my road bike with erm, 25s (I think - it's been so long since I rode it.....)

interesting youre the 2nd person in a week to say they're jus as if not faster on fat tyre CX, mmmmm

In theory, with any size of tyre with the same pressure the area of the contact point will be the same. So if the tyres- regardless of width- are run at the same pressure then they will have the same amount of road drag due to contact with the road.

In practice the shape of the deformed area and the way in which the deformation works tends to be "better" for 23 to 28mm tyres at 7 bar /100 psi

The aerodynamic effect of a 23mm vs a 28mm just does not count at the speeds that ordinary people commute at ( even for DDD )

There are three reasons that narrower tyres are faster in general

1) the deform shape is better, and the tyre casing more resiliant
2) the tyre is lighter ( less material )
3) the compound is better - bigger tyres tend to have slower/more durable compounds

A 28mm Conti GP 4 Seasons is probably faster than a 23mm Ultragator skin because
1) Ultragator skins have horrible unresiliant casing
2) GP4 seasons have a folding bead, Ultragator have a wire bead. So the GP4 is lighter
3) GP4 compound is better than Ultragator. Ultragator is more durable

UndercoverElephant

Actually, I thought that wider tyres had less rolling resistance at a given pressure than thin ones. The problem being, of course that thin tyres generally can take higher pressures than the thicker ones, making most of the above statement moot.

Edit: Knew I'd read this somewhere... http://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/ ... resistance

DonDaddyD

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Actually, I thought that wider tyres had less rolling resistance at a given pressure than thin ones. The problem being, of course that thin tyres generally can take higher pressures than the thicker ones, making most of the above statement moot.

Edit: Knew I'd read this somewhere... http://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/ ... resistance

Vorsprung sounds german so he is bound to be right.

But I'm siding with UE on this one.