OT - Axeing 6 Music

Porgy

I think the only chance now is for us to bombard the BBC trust with letters.

Get in touch
BBC Trust Unit
180 Great Portland Street
London
W1W 5QZ

Email
trust.enquiries@bbc.co.uk

Telephone
Call the information line on 03700 103 100 or textphone on 03700 100 212.
Lines are open from Monday to Friday, between 9.30am and 5.30pm.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/index.shtml


Jon Ronson makes all the relevant points in his letter:

Jon Ronson wrote:

My letter to the BBC trust

Hello,

I'd like to add my voice to those who are shocked at the proposal to scrap BBC 6 Music.

The station is everything the BBC should be about: nurturing intelligent talent (both musical and presenting). Whilst some parts of the BBC (like BBC 3) seem at times nothing more than copies of certain independent channels, there is nothing out there like 6Music. It is a unique and very BBC station. Brilliant sharp, funny presenters like Adam and Joe, Lauren Laverne, The Queens of Noise, Phil Jupitus, Sean Keaveny, etc, have been entertaining loyal, grateful fans like me for years. These are intelligent people who aren't afraid to be passionate about good, not particularly populist music. 6Music is the Radio 4 of music channels.

I think the problem has been that the BBC hasn't known what a good thing it had. That's why it employed inappropriately populist presenters like George Lamb. I sincerely hope that the Save BBC 6 Music campaign will remind everyone - executives and listeners alike - what a wonderful, unique station it is.

I hope the BBC Trust refuses to allow this brilliant station to go down.

Very best wishes

Jon Ronson

I am so angry I don't know what to do!! If 6Music is closed I may write to my local MP and urge him to support privatisation of the BBC and start buying the Daily Mail I am so blo0dy angry! :evil:

attica

Porgy wrote:

I am so angry I don't know what to do!! If 6Music is closed I may write to my local MP and urge him to support privatisation of the BBC and start buying the Daily Mail I am so blo0dy angry! :evil:

Steady on now, there's no need for that sort of behaviour :shock:

tailwindhome

cjcp wrote:

Confession time: I don't own a DAB radio. <runs for cover>

I'm not even sure what a DAB radio is

Porgy

WheezyMcChubby wrote:

cjcp wrote:

Confession time: I don't own a DAB radio. <runs for cover>

I'm not even sure what a DAB radio is

DAB radio = useless and expensive pile of junk.

SmellTheGlove

All wrong. How much does a digital-only station cost to run? I'm guessing but it's surely small change in BBC terms. Once it's gone we'll never get anything like it back, least of all something similarly intelligent.
Possible upside - more of LL on the telly...
:perv:

lost_in_thought

I really dislike Lauren Laverne.

However, I like my DAB radio, there's plenty of good content out there.

MattFT

I recommend you also email the review feedback address too:

srconsultation@bbc.co.uk

I'll be gutted if it goes - Marc Riley is awesome, and brings back my teenage memories of Mark and Lard, direct from Manchester.

Porgy

lost_in_thought wrote:

I really dislike Lauren Laverne.

However, I like my DAB radio, there's plenty of good content out there.

I was really excited about getting a DAB about 5/6 years ago. In the end though I could find nothing worth listening to that wasn't available on a conventional radio except 6Music. £100 seems like a lot of money to me for just one radio station.

I'd be interested to hear any recommendations for something else to listen to - otherwise my 2 DABs will be used for target practice, expensive paper weights, or as a projectile weapon to be used against the BBC Trust.

jpembroke

don_don wrote:

Absolute Radio tends to be on in the office and I quite like Amazing, which is apparently all unsigned bands. I used to listen to 6 Music but have lost interest. It seems quite difficult to find anything worth listening to on the radio these days. Or, perhaps my taste in music is changing with age. Perhaps I'll buy a cardigan...

Definitely a post worthy of a Gideon Core Duffer badge.

lost_in_thought

Porgy wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

I really dislike Lauren Laverne.

However, I like my DAB radio, there's plenty of good content out there.

I was really excited about getting a DAB about 5/6 years ago. In the end though I could find nothing worth listening to that wasn't available on a conventional radio except 6Music. £100 seems like a lot of money to me for just one radio station.

I'd be interested to hear any recommendations for something else to listen to - otherwise my 2 DABs will be used for target practice, expensive paper weights, or as a projectile weapon to be used against the BBC Trust.

Well I listen to Absolute Radio, Planet Rock, ourkindofmusic, XFM (which is only on DAB out in the sticks) to name but a few.

Porgy

lost_in_thought wrote:

Porgy wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

I really dislike Lauren Laverne.

However, I like my DAB radio, there's plenty of good content out there.

I was really excited about getting a DAB about 5/6 years ago. In the end though I could find nothing worth listening to that wasn't available on a conventional radio except 6Music. £100 seems like a lot of money to me for just one radio station.

I'd be interested to hear any recommendations for something else to listen to - otherwise my 2 DABs will be used for target practice, expensive paper weights, or as a projectile weapon to be used against the BBC Trust.

Well I listen to Absolute Radio, Planet Rock, ourkindofmusic, XFM (which is only on DAB out in the sticks) to name but a few.

I've tried PR - and XFM - not quite mykindofmusic tbh, XFM is a bit too much generic indie - and repetitive. That's why I like 6Music - more eclectic and much less indie, and mostly off playlist.

I had never heard of Absolute tbh until you mentioned it in a previous post - so I might check that out - though I put it on last night and got ads followed by "Don;t Fear the Reaper" followed by Iain Lee :? - but I will try again - once 6Music is finally gone

UndercoverElephant

I'm not sure what it's like darn sarf, but the FM band up here has Classic FM, Radio's 1,2,3 & 4, and several almost-identical, insipid, cheesy-pop stations.

I've never listened to 6 Music, I prefer the rock stations (Kerrang, Planet Rock or even Absolute), but DAB is the only way to get anything remotely to my taste.

Porgy

UndercoverElephant wrote:

I'm not sure what it's like darn sarf, but the FM band up here has Classic FM, Radio's 1,2,3 & 4, and several almost-identical, insipid, cheesy-pop stations.

I've never listened to 6 Music, I prefer the rock stations (Kerrang, Planet Rock or even Absolute), but DAB is the only way to get anything remotely to my taste.

There's a 6Music rock show on friday nights presented by that bloke who flies planes out of off of Iron Maiden.

It's the only show on 6Music, apart from George Lamb, that I really cannot listen to for more than about 2 minutes...but I like that it's there. 8)

spen666

Attica wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

Popular isn't, directly, part of the BBC remit, it's a public service broadcaster and should be filling the gaps that aren't and won't be met by commercial broadcasters.

That's not to say it shouldn't be producing similar content to it's commercial cousins, since someone needs to stop standards falling to the lowest common denominator. Cutting R6, if it happens, would be an error. Same goes for the Asian Network.

But if the public are not listening to it in sufficient numbers it is not providing a public service! The line has to be drawn somewhere or we could all demand our own public broadcasting stations- eg I want a spen666 radio station that only plays music I like.

I was interested to read in the Times today the letter from the record industry saying R6 should stay because it showcases new talent... ie BBC should pay for a station to make us money. If the record industry like the broadcasting of R6 they can buy it and run it themselves. Why should the licence payer advertise the record industry?

That's a good point until you remember that all artists were new talent once.
R6 is in the spirit of John Peel, without whom we wouldn't have many many favourites.

So in answer to your question "Why should the licence payer advertise the record industry?" It's so we can all benefit.

Let the record industry pay to advertise its products. It and the artists are the ones who profit from it

Porgy

spen666 wrote:

Attica wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

Popular isn't, directly, part of the BBC remit, it's a public service broadcaster and should be filling the gaps that aren't and won't be met by commercial broadcasters.

That's not to say it shouldn't be producing similar content to it's commercial cousins, since someone needs to stop standards falling to the lowest common denominator. Cutting R6, if it happens, would be an error. Same goes for the Asian Network.

But if the public are not listening to it in sufficient numbers it is not providing a public service! The line has to be drawn somewhere or we could all demand our own public broadcasting stations- eg I want a spen666 radio station that only plays music I like.

I was interested to read in the Times today the letter from the record industry saying R6 should stay because it showcases new talent... ie BBC should pay for a station to make us money. If the record industry like the broadcasting of R6 they can buy it and run it themselves. Why should the licence payer advertise the record industry?

That's a good point until you remember that all artists were new talent once.
R6 is in the spirit of John Peel, without whom we wouldn't have many many favourites.

So in answer to your question "Why should the licence payer advertise the record industry?" It's so we can all benefit.

Let the record industry pay to advertise its products. It and the artists are the ones who profit from it

Many would disagree with that and consider that music, like film and art is far too important to leave to the market.

and you failt to address the issue that many of the records played on 6Music are not industry product at all - BBC sessions, unsigned bands, live performances, unreleased recordings etc.

The main commerical stations behave like adverts for the music industry but 6Music does not - it plays music for it's own sake not to selel "units". Surely that's exactly the sort of thing the BBC should be doing.

PBo

I'm a 6 music fan.

I don't just listen on DAB sets in kitchen/bedroom, but also through hifi amp/speakers in living room via TV digibox (not that i'm saying the quality is hi-fi). My m-in-law and s-in-law also listen via tv. I wonder if those figures are also taken into account....?

I've also streamed it occasionally.

Would be glad to see the back of George Lamb though.....

attica

spen666 wrote:

Let the record industry pay to advertise its products. It and the artists are the ones who profit from it

Yes, but they will sell to the lowest common denominator.
We won't be able to buy anything that hasn't been on x-factor or something similar.
We will never get new music genres, that would present a risk that doesn't fit in with record company business models.

It's why commercial radio is so bland, it needs to please all of the people al of the time

spen666

Porgy wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Attica wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

Popular isn't, directly, part of the BBC remit, it's a public service broadcaster and should be filling the gaps that aren't and won't be met by commercial broadcasters.

That's not to say it shouldn't be producing similar content to it's commercial cousins, since someone needs to stop standards falling to the lowest common denominator. Cutting R6, if it happens, would be an error. Same goes for the Asian Network.

But if the public are not listening to it in sufficient numbers it is not providing a public service! The line has to be drawn somewhere or we could all demand our own public broadcasting stations- eg I want a spen666 radio station that only plays music I like.

I was interested to read in the Times today the letter from the record industry saying R6 should stay because it showcases new talent... ie BBC should pay for a station to make us money. If the record industry like the broadcasting of R6 they can buy it and run it themselves. Why should the licence payer advertise the record industry?

That's a good point until you remember that all artists were new talent once.
R6 is in the spirit of John Peel, without whom we wouldn't have many many favourites.

So in answer to your question "Why should the licence payer advertise the record industry?" It's so we can all benefit.

Let the record industry pay to advertise its products. It and the artists are the ones who profit from it

Many would disagree with that and consider that music, like film and art is far too important to leave to the market.

and you failt to address the issue that many of the records played on 6Music are not industry product at all - BBC sessions, unsigned bands, live performances, unreleased recordings etc.

The main commerical stations behave like adverts for the music industry but 6Music does not - it plays music for it's own sake not to selel "units". Surely that's exactly the sort of thing the BBC should be doing.

All of those items are plugs to advertise the products of the bands. Let the bands/ record industry etc pay to promotoe their own records.

If the record companies and record industry think its such an essential product as per their letter referred to in the Times, they would happily pay for it surely? Oh wait, that will reduce their profits when they can get someone else to pay for their advertising

Porgy

spen666 wrote:

Porgy wrote:

Many would disagree with that and consider that music, like film and art is far too important to leave to the market.

and you failt to address the issue that many of the records played on 6Music are not industry product at all - BBC sessions, unsigned bands, live performances, unreleased recordings etc.

The main commerical stations behave like adverts for the music industry but 6Music does not - it plays music for it's own sake not to selel "units". Surely that's exactly the sort of thing the BBC should be doing.

All of those items are plugs to advertise the products of the bands. Let the bands/ record industry etc pay to promotoe their own records.

If the record companies and record industry think its such an essential product as per their letter referred to in the Times, they would happily pay for it surely? Oh wait, that will reduce their profits when they can get someone else to pay for their advertising

Advertisers on commerical stations will not allow much of this music to be played.

You may consider it to be product but many consider it to be art or culture.

Besides it's not as simple as you paint it. Many artists produce non-commerical music which they do not expect to sell - making their living from live gigs or even having a day job. 6Music exists in this area - supporting artists that are not industry product.

Your way of doing things would require all artists to be commerically successful and heavily promoted by the industry. I'm sorry but what the industry promotes is not of a high quality generally but i do unfortunately have to accept that those sales support much of what i like to listen to.

spen666

Porgy wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Porgy wrote:

Many would disagree with that and consider that music, like film and art is far too important to leave to the market.

and you failt to address the issue that many of the records played on 6Music are not industry product at all - BBC sessions, unsigned bands, live performances, unreleased recordings etc.

The main commerical stations behave like adverts for the music industry but 6Music does not - it plays music for it's own sake not to selel "units". Surely that's exactly the sort of thing the BBC should be doing.

All of those items are plugs to advertise the products of the bands. Let the bands/ record industry etc pay to promotoe their own records.

If the record companies and record industry think its such an essential product as per their letter referred to in the Times, they would happily pay for it surely? Oh wait, that will reduce their profits when they can get someone else to pay for their advertising

Advertisers on commerical stations will not allow much of this music to be played.

You may consider it to be product but many consider it to be art or culture.

Besides it's not as simple as you paint it. Many artists produce non-commerical music which they do not expect to sell - making their living from live gigs or even having a day job. 6Music exists in this area - supporting artists that are not industry product.

Your way of doing things would require all artists to be commerically successful and heavily promoted by the industry. I'm sorry but what the industry promotes is not of a high quality generally but i do unfortunately have to accept that those sales support much of what i like to listen to.

I object to the record industry writing letters calling for this "essential " service to stay in existence, but only if others pay for it.

The record industry should pay for it, if they think it is so important.


Me personally, i don't care if it exists or not. i just object to others expecting peoople to pay for their profit

Porgy

spen666 wrote:

Porgy wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Porgy wrote:

Many would disagree with that and consider that music, like film and art is far too important to leave to the market.

and you failt to address the issue that many of the records played on 6Music are not industry product at all - BBC sessions, unsigned bands, live performances, unreleased recordings etc.

The main commerical stations behave like adverts for the music industry but 6Music does not - it plays music for it's own sake not to selel "units". Surely that's exactly the sort of thing the BBC should be doing.

All of those items are plugs to advertise the products of the bands. Let the bands/ record industry etc pay to promotoe their own records.

If the record companies and record industry think its such an essential product as per their letter referred to in the Times, they would happily pay for it surely? Oh wait, that will reduce their profits when they can get someone else to pay for their advertising

Advertisers on commerical stations will not allow much of this music to be played.

You may consider it to be product but many consider it to be art or culture.

Besides it's not as simple as you paint it. Many artists produce non-commerical music which they do not expect to sell - making their living from live gigs or even having a day job. 6Music exists in this area - supporting artists that are not industry product.

Your way of doing things would require all artists to be commerically successful and heavily promoted by the industry. I'm sorry but what the industry promotes is not of a high quality generally but i do unfortunately have to accept that those sales support much of what i like to listen to.

I object to the record industry writing letters calling for this "essential " service to stay in existence, but only if others pay for it.

The record industry should pay for it, if they think it is so important.


Me personally, i don't care if it exists or not. i just object to others expecting peoople to pay for their profit

The record industry can do what it likes - I'm more concerned that listeners and license payers record their objections and protest to the BBC about this closure.

and I seriously dout the record industry makes much out of 6Music - Radios1 and 2 are where they are more likely to promote their high selling product.

6Music imo is just what the BBC is all about - not crap like BBC3 or elitist stuff like Radio 3.

attica

Spen
Google "Payola"

spen666

Porgy wrote:

....

The record industry can do what it likes - I'm more concerned that listeners and license payers record their objections and protest to the BBC about this closure.

and I seriously dout the record industry makes much out of 6Music - Radios1 and 2 are where they are more likely to promote their high selling product.

6Music imo is just what the BBC is all about - not crap like BBC3 or elitist stuff like Radio 3.

The record industry can do what it likes, but it expecting others to pay to advertise its wares will turn a lot of people against the BBC funding R6

Interesting that R6 has 695,000 listeners per week and your so called elitist R3 has.

Simply because you don't like a station doesn't make it elitist. Clearly from these figures far more people listen to R3 than R6


(Figures from http://www.mediauk.com)



PS I'm not fan of radio 3 or 6.

spen666

Attica wrote:

Spen
Google "Payola"

Why?

spen666

Attica wrote:

Spen
Google "Payola"

Why?

Porgy

spen666 wrote:

Interesting that R6 has 695,000 listeners per week and your so called elitist R3 has.

Simply because you don't like a station doesn't make it elitist. Clearly from these figures far more people listen to R3 than R6


(Figures from http://www.mediauk.com)



PS I'm not fan of radio 3 or 6.

you need to apply logic.

The Guardian wrote:

Digital radio – including digital audio broadcasting (DAB), digital TV and the internet – accounted for 20.9% of all radio listening in the last three months of 2009, according to Rajar audience figures published today.

This was down from 21.1% in the previous three months but up from 18.3% in the last three months of 2008.

In digital radio terms 6Music is doing extremely well - in a period where the digital audience has contracted 6Music's has increased by 12%. If 6Music was a terrestrial station would expect it to easily exceed Radio 3's audience.

And even as a digital station - with an annual 12% increase you would expect it to exceed Radio 3 in aboput a decade....quicker if the BBC ever bothered to promote it (compare to TV ads for Radios 1 and 2 - many people don;t even know that 6Music exists).

considering that 6Music is about ten years old and radio three has been going for several generations and is well established and is available on all formats of radio - I think less than 2 million is extremely poor - and yes - it is elitist.

btw - i'd like to point out that i'm not anti-radio3 - I love that it exists - but the BBC need to be consistent about what they are trying to achieve and if it's populism they wish to achieve then radio 3 just doesn't fit into that remit.

attica

spen666 wrote:

Why?

spen666 wrote:

Why?

spen666 wrote:

Why?

spen666 wrote:

Delilah

I thought it might shed a little light on why so many of us are against allowing market forces to infuence playlists.

daviesee

spen666 wrote:

Porgy wrote:

....

The record industry can do what it likes - I'm more concerned that listeners and license payers record their objections and protest to the BBC about this closure.

and I seriously dout the record industry makes much out of 6Music - Radios1 and 2 are where they are more likely to promote their high selling product.

6Music imo is just what the BBC is all about - not crap like BBC3 or elitist stuff like Radio 3.

The record industry can do what it likes, but it expecting others to pay to advertise its wares will turn a lot of people against the BBC funding R6

Interesting that R6 has 695,000 listeners per week and your so called elitist R3 has.

Simply because you don't like a station doesn't make it elitist. Clearly from these figures far more people listen to R3 than R6


(Figures from http://www.mediauk.com)



PS I'm not fan of radio 3 or 6.

I don't like the industry pushed pulp and prefer more indie label music.
Where do you suggest that I hear it rather than 6 music?

Are you really Simon Cowell in disguise?

shouldbeinbed

lost_in_thought wrote:

I really dislike Lauren Laverne.
.

She's only on for a little bit of the day. There's plenty of other content on 6.

Can't multiquote but to Spen. pouncing on random examples as gospel again and spinning them into some sort of spurious argument, tsk.

Comparing listening figures for Radio 3 to 6 music is a completely inappropriate and unfair comparison. Radio 3 is on FM and has a far more expansive distribution service and a massive competitive advantage. Thats also not what was said, it was a dig at the elitism of R3, fair enough IMO 3 hours of violin concerto on the radio is a rarer acquired taste than 3 minutes of more current music. Compare R3 to R1, R2 , absolute, XFM etc that have the same outlet opportunities.

I'm sure GLR has a far greater listenership than BBC Radio Shetland (possibly made up) by simple demographics, GLR's millions more potential listeners doesn't make GLR of any relevance at all to the Shetlanders or Radio Shetland worthy of extinction though.

Every radio station gets free and pre release copies of music pertinent to itself to play and 'advertise'. I assume you're just doing your usual devils advocate bit and leaping on another 1 liner rather than being utterly naive about Radio 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, Absolute, GLR, classic, Smooth, BBC local Shetland, radio uncle tom cobley and all doing exactly what you're having an exclusive pop at 6 music for.

Porgy

shouldbeinbed wrote:

Every radio station gets free and pre release copies of music pertinent to itself to play and 'advertise'. I assume you're just doing your usual devils advocate bit and leaping on another 1 liner rather than being utterly naive about Radio 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, Absolute, GLR, classic, Smooth, BBC local Shetland, radio uncle tom cobley and all doing exactly what you're having an exclusive pop at 6 music for.

and what makes spen's argument most puzzling is that 6music is the least guilty of this sort of shameless promotion - and if anything promoting the band not the product - as in Tom Robinson's show made entirely of unsigned bands - or getting bands to record music that they have no intention of putting on the market in any form.

In most cases you can tell the presenter is playing music they want to play not something that arrived as part of a record label's business plan.

As for the radio3 thing - I do think that if radio3 had been allowed to move with the times and respond to the changing audience for serious music there would be more diverse programming on there - they do a bit of jazz and a bit of world music but in reality programmes like Maconie's "Freak Zone" should be on there - the avant gard of what we call pop should be on there - and tbh 6music deals with both world music and jazz much better than Radio3's tokenistic attempts.